$45 trillion needed to combat warming

[ProfJohn]

link

TOKYO - The world needs to invest $45 trillion in energy in coming decades, build some 1,400 nuclear power plants and vastly expand wind power in order to halve greenhouse gas emissions by 2050, according to an energy study released Friday.

The report by the Paris-based International Energy Agency envisions a "energy revolution" that would greatly reduce the world's dependence on fossil fuels while maintaining steady economic growth.

"Meeting this target of 50 percent cut in emissions represents a formidable challenge, and we would require immediate policy action and technological transition on an unprecedented scale," IEA Executive Director Nobuo Tanaka said.

A U.N.-network of scientists concluded last year that emissions have to be cut by at least half by 2050 to avoid an increase in world temperatures of between 3.6 and 4.2 degrees above pre-18th century levels.

Scientists say temperature increases beyond that could trigger devastating effects, such as widespread loss of species, famines and droughts, and swamping of heavily populated coastal areas by rising oceans.

Environment ministers from the Group of Eight industrialized countries and Russia backed the 50 percent target in a meeting in Japan last month and called for it to be officially endorsed at the G-8 summit in July.

The IEA report mapped out two main scenarios: one in which emissions are reduced to 2005 levels by 2050, and a second that would bring them to half of 2005 levels by mid-century.

The scenario for deeper cuts would require massive investment in energy technology development and deployment, a wide-ranging campaign to dramatically increase energy efficiency, and a wholesale shift to renewable sources of energy.

Assuming an average 3.3 percent global economic growth over the 2010-2050 period, governments and the private sector would have to make additional investments of $45 trillion in energy, or 1.1 percent of the world's gross domestic product, the report said.

That would be an investment more than three times the current size of the entire U.S. economy.

The second scenario also calls for an accelerated ramping up of development of so-called "carbon capture and storage" technology allowing coal-powered power plants to catch emissions and inject them underground.

The study said that an average of 35 coal-powered plants and 20 gas-powered power plants would have to be fitted with carbon capture and storage equipment each year between 2010 and 2050.

In addition, the world would have to construct 32 new nuclear power plants each year, and wind-power turbines would have to be increased by 17,000 units annually. Nations would have to achieve an eight-fold reduction in carbon intensity ? the amount of carbon needed to produce a unit of energy ? in the transport sector.

Such action would drastically reduce oil demand to 27 percent of 2005 demand. Failure to act would lead to a doubling of energy demand and a 130 percent increase in carbon dioxide emissions by 2050, IEA officials said.

"This development is clearly not sustainable," said Dolf Gielen, an IEA energy analyst and leader for the project.

Gielen said most of the $45 trillion forecast investment ? about $27 trillion ? would be borne by developing countries, which will be responsible for two-thirds of greenhouse gas emissions by 2050.

Most of the money would be in the commercialization of energy technologies developed by governments and the private sector.

"If industry is convinced there will be policy for serious, deep CO2 emission cuts, then these investments will be made by the private sector," Gielen said.

This is the first time I have seen a price tag placed on the GW fix.

I think we need more information on GW and how much of it is man made before we start throwing trillions of dollars at the problem.

 

[shabby]

Send your donations to shabby@paypal.com

 

[fskimospy]

This is over the next 40 years, as the article states. Just over 1% of GDP. I'm sure you do think we need more information Pro-Jo. I'm also pretty sure that the standard of proof you're looking for will never be reached. We've been over all this before though.

 

[Cuda1447]

Global warming is a fucking scam. I cannot believe how many people buy into this shit. If you look at history you will see global temperatures rising and falling is cyclical. We are holding true to that pattern, based on past historical data. Why are we shocked that we are back in this cycle? If we were such a big contributor to global warming with CO2 emissions than we would be much further along in that cycle and have much higher temperatures, we are not, thus we do not seem to be altering the cycle in any way. That is the simplest explanation I can think of. There is a lot more data AGAINST global warming, but really all you need is logic.

 

[Cuda1447]

whoops, DP

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Global warming is a fucking scam. I cannot believe how many people buy into this shit. If you look at history you will see global temperatures rising and falling is cyclical. We are holding true to that pattern, based on past historical data. Why are we shocked that we are back in this cycle? If we were such a big contributor to global warming with CO2 emissions than we would be much further along in that cycle and have much higher temperatures, we are not, thus we do not seem to be altering the cycle in any way. That is the simplest explanation I can think of. There is a lot more data AGAINST global warming, but really all you need is logic.

No. Please go educate yourself and then come back.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

If we go on as we are, just how much are we going to spend on oil over the next 40 years? People are talking as if this is a penalty. It's an opportunity to invest money in new businesses and technology. If the goal were to be energy independence along with GW concerns, that would just be all the better.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Global warming is a fucking scam. I cannot believe how many people buy into this shit. If you look at history you will see global temperatures rising and falling is cyclical. We are holding true to that pattern, based on past historical data. Why are we shocked that we are back in this cycle? If we were such a big contributor to global warming with CO2 emissions than we would be much further along in that cycle and have much higher temperatures, we are not, thus we do not seem to be altering the cycle in any way. That is the simplest explanation I can think of. There is a lot more data AGAINST global warming, but really all you need is logic.

Sadly, it is those who think they are logical that are most susceptible to unconscious fear and manipulation. Doesn't mean you are wrong, but the appeal to logic is worthless.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Global warming is a fucking scam. I cannot believe how many people buy into this shit. If you look at history you will see global temperatures rising and falling is cyclical. We are holding true to that pattern, based on past historical data. Why are we shocked that we are back in this cycle? If we were such a big contributor to global warming with CO2 emissions than we would be much further along in that cycle and have much higher temperatures, we are not, thus we do not seem to be altering the cycle in any way. That is the simplest explanation I can think of. There is a lot more data AGAINST global warming, but really all you need is logic.

No. Please go educate yourself and then come back.

Dispute something I said. History has shown a cyclical weather pattern. We have gone through numerous ice ages in the past WITHOUT human interference. Why would we be surprised if we went through another one. Just because humans are here now doesn't mean we caused that ice age, it just means the cycle is playing itself out like it normally has in the Earths history.


Great reply though, it had lots of thought and evidence to prove your point. :roll:


People like you make me sick.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Global warming is a fucking scam. I cannot believe how many people buy into this shit. If you look at history you will see global temperatures rising and falling is cyclical. We are holding true to that pattern, based on past historical data. Why are we shocked that we are back in this cycle? If we were such a big contributor to global warming with CO2 emissions than we would be much further along in that cycle and have much higher temperatures, we are not, thus we do not seem to be altering the cycle in any way. That is the simplest explanation I can think of. There is a lot more data AGAINST global warming, but really all you need is logic.

No. Please go educate yourself and then come back.

Im uneducated. 17,000 scientists agree with me though

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Global warming is a fucking scam. I cannot believe how many people buy into this shit. If you look at history you will see global temperatures rising and falling is cyclical. We are holding true to that pattern, based on past historical data. Why are we shocked that we are back in this cycle? If we were such a big contributor to global warming with CO2 emissions than we would be much further along in that cycle and have much higher temperatures, we are not, thus we do not seem to be altering the cycle in any way. That is the simplest explanation I can think of. There is a lot more data AGAINST global warming, but really all you need is logic.

No. Please go educate yourself and then come back.

Dispute something I said. History has shown a cyclical weather pattern. We have gone through numerous ice ages in the past WITHOUT human interference. Why would we be surprised if we went through another one. Just because humans are here now doesn't mean we caused that ice age, it just means the cycle is playing itself out like it normally has in the Earths history.


Great reply though, it had lots of thought and evidence to prove your point. :roll:


People like you make me sick.

Use the search function on these boards if you want to see my reply to you. Use the search function on Google if you want more information after that.

The same ignorant point has been made by dozens of people before you who, like you, were also too ideologically blinded or intellectually lazy to attempt to understand the issue before writing something on it. I'm sure you FEEL like global warming is a scam and is wrong, but reality doesn't care how you feel. I'm not going to waste the time typing out the exact same response to you that I typed to the 10 idiots that came before you, especially when you obviously haven't invested the slightest bit of time or effort into coming to your opinion.

 

[Cuda1447]

Ive done my research, you assume I haven't done research based on what? The fact that I disagree with you. Rather than arguing with you I'll let you argue with 9000 PhD's who disagree with you entirely. Go ahead and read their data and then come back to me. Attacking my personally doesn't make you right, it makes you pathetic. The sooner you learn that the better off you'll be.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Global warming is a fucking scam. I cannot believe how many people buy into this shit. If you look at history you will see global temperatures rising and falling is cyclical. We are holding true to that pattern, based on past historical data. Why are we shocked that we are back in this cycle? If we were such a big contributor to global warming with CO2 emissions than we would be much further along in that cycle and have much higher temperatures, we are not, thus we do not seem to be altering the cycle in any way. That is the simplest explanation I can think of. There is a lot more data AGAINST global warming, but really all you need is logic.

No. Please go educate yourself and then come back.

Dispute something I said. History has shown a cyclical weather pattern. We have gone through numerous ice ages in the past WITHOUT human interference. Why would we be surprised if we went through another one. Just because humans are here now doesn't mean we caused that ice age, it just means the cycle is playing itself out like it normally has in the Earths history.


Great reply though, it had lots of thought and evidence to prove your point. :roll:


People like you make me sick.

I know, and people bitching about overpopulation contributing to food shortages! Jesus people, think.

 

[hellod9]

For everyone who thinks global warming is fake, HAVE YOU BEEN TO ALASKA???

Its not a controversy there. At all. And for damn good reason.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Global warming is a fucking scam. I cannot believe how many people buy into this shit. If you look at history you will see global temperatures rising and falling is cyclical. We are holding true to that pattern, based on past historical data. Why are we shocked that we are back in this cycle? If we were such a big contributor to global warming with CO2 emissions than we would be much further along in that cycle and have much higher temperatures, we are not, thus we do not seem to be altering the cycle in any way. That is the simplest explanation I can think of. There is a lot more data AGAINST global warming, but really all you need is logic.

No. Please go educate yourself and then come back.

Im uneducated. 17,000 scientists agree with me though

First three from Alabama on that list

H. William Ahrenholz - deceased
Oscar Richard Ainsworth, PhD - nothing on the internet
John H. van Aken - sells boating supplies


I'm sure the quality of those scientists is never a question :roll: :laugh:

 

[Cuda1447]

Let me address what you said hellod, because I don't want there to be confusion as to what I am saying. I acknowledge that global temperatures have been changing. What is a scam is thinking that humans are a major contribution to these changes in temperatures, which most scientists agree, humans are not.

With that said, I have no problems with putting money into researching things that are cleaner for our environment, that is a great thing to do. I just don't want to see people getting rich off of fear-mongering and fake science from a wannabe-president.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Ive done my research, you assume I haven't done research based on what? The fact that I disagree with you. Rather than arguing with you I'll let you argue with 9000 PhD's who disagree with you entirely. Go ahead and read their data and then come back to me. Attacking my personally doesn't make you right, it makes you pathetic. The sooner you learn that the better off you'll be.

Do you even know the slightest thing about the petition you're citing? The same one in which one of the "Ph.D's" who signed it was a SPICE GIRL? The same one that out of all of the signatories has more then 10,000 mechanical/electrical/blah blah engineers that have signed it, but only about 200 climate scientists? (out of thousands and thousands and thousands).

Dude, go read up on who actually signed that petition, the Scientific American went and tried to contact people who signed it and even out of the climate scientists who did a large number of them claim to not remember having signed it, said they would no longer sign it now, etc.. etc. Simply put, it's a large collection of people from fields at best tangently related to climate science who have somehow been given legitimacy under the broad umbrella of all being "scientists". How the fuck would a mechanical engineer be any more qualified to comment on climate science then a garbage man? Yet by this petition, he's a "PH.D!"

Oh, and one final thing... it has also been made clear that the petition has people signing against that man made emissions will not cause 'catastrophic' warming, not that mankind is not 'altering the cycle in any way' as you tried to claim earlier. So, you might want to rethink if your 9,000 computer science Ph.D's agree with you either.

I'll give you a hint, an argument from authority only works when authority is on your side.

EDIT: And saying "most scientists agree" that mankind is not a major contributor to global warming is a lie. A flat out lie.

EDIT 2: I should have linked the wiki link as well.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Global warming is a fucking scam. I cannot believe how many people buy into this shit. If you look at history you will see global temperatures rising and falling is cyclical. We are holding true to that pattern, based on past historical data. Why are we shocked that we are back in this cycle? If we were such a big contributor to global warming with CO2 emissions than we would be much further along in that cycle and have much higher temperatures, we are not, thus we do not seem to be altering the cycle in any way. That is the simplest explanation I can think of. There is a lot more data AGAINST global warming, but really all you need is logic.

No. Please go educate yourself and then come back.

Im uneducated. 17,000 scientists agree with me though

That petition is a scam and riddled with irregularities:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_petition

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Global warming is a fucking scam. I cannot believe how many people buy into this shit. If you look at history you will see global temperatures rising and falling is cyclical. We are holding true to that pattern, based on past historical data. Why are we shocked that we are back in this cycle? If we were such a big contributor to global warming with CO2 emissions than we would be much further along in that cycle and have much higher temperatures, we are not, thus we do not seem to be altering the cycle in any way. That is the simplest explanation I can think of. There is a lot more data AGAINST global warming, but really all you need is logic.

No. Please go educate yourself and then come back.

Im uneducated. 17,000 scientists agree with me though

Reading the criteria for that petition, how many qualifed people are there who did not sign it? I'm certainly able to do so yet I haven't. There is also the problem of falsifying signatures. Atmospheric scientists have been added who oppose the premise of the petition, but I'll assume the majority who appear on the list are genuine.

I do wonder how many are aware that the CO2 levels are roughly three times higher than at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution and at the highest level in 600,000 years. Now perhaps you argue that it's a remarkable coincidence, akin to winning the lottery. Perhaps you are correct. However statistically without any research at all it seems that more than "nature" is at work. Given that we either act or close our eyes, I vote for the former all the while continuing to ascertain how this interplays.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Ive done my research, you assume I haven't done research based on what? The fact that I disagree with you. Rather than arguing with you I'll let you argue with 9000 PhD's who disagree with you entirely. Go ahead and read their data and then come back to me. Attacking my personally doesn't make you right, it makes you pathetic. The sooner you learn that the better off you'll be.

If by "research" you mean pulling your head out of your ass and taking a breath of fresh air, then mission accomplished!

:laugh:

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Global warming is a fucking scam. I cannot believe how many people buy into this shit. If you look at history you will see global temperatures rising and falling is cyclical. We are holding true to that pattern, based on past historical data. Why are we shocked that we are back in this cycle? If we were such a big contributor to global warming with CO2 emissions than we would be much further along in that cycle and have much higher temperatures, we are not, thus we do not seem to be altering the cycle in any way. That is the simplest explanation I can think of. There is a lot more data AGAINST global warming, but really all you need is logic.

My God, are you serious?

The debate is long over. Where have you been?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Global warming is a fucking scam. I cannot believe how many people buy into this shit. If you look at history you will see global temperatures rising and falling is cyclical. We are holding true to that pattern, based on past historical data. Why are we shocked that we are back in this cycle? If we were such a big contributor to global warming with CO2 emissions than we would be much further along in that cycle and have much higher temperatures, we are not, thus we do not seem to be altering the cycle in any way. That is the simplest explanation I can think of. There is a lot more data AGAINST global warming, but really all you need is logic.

My God, are you serious?

The debate is long over. Where have you been?

Some people never accept anything...

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e...f/Flatearthsociety.htm

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Global warming is a fucking scam. I cannot believe how many people buy into this shit. If you look at history you will see global temperatures rising and falling is cyclical. We are holding true to that pattern, based on past historical data. Why are we shocked that we are back in this cycle? If we were such a big contributor to global warming with CO2 emissions than we would be much further along in that cycle and have much higher temperatures, we are not, thus we do not seem to be altering the cycle in any way. That is the simplest explanation I can think of. There is a lot more data AGAINST global warming, but really all you need is logic.

No. Please go educate yourself and then come back.

Im uneducated. 17,000 scientists agree with me though

That petition is a scam and riddled with irregularities:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_petition

Ya, I screwed the pooch on that one. I just did a quick google search and it was teh first thing I came up with. Regardless, there is a lot of evidence out there that debunks global warming. If you guys don't want to agree with me, thats fine. We will probably disagree on a lot of things. Call me whatever the fuck you want, but that doesn't change the truth. Whether it be the truth you believe, or the truth I believe, only time will tell.


With that said, I firmly believe global warming is a major fucking scam. Weather is cyclical and we have gone through ice ages without mans interference before. Why should we not expect to go through ice ages with man here?

 

[sierrita]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
n[/L]

Ya, I screwed the pooch on that one. I just did a quick google search and it was teh first thing I came up with.






That's pretty much s.o.p. for all the Flat Earthers on this board.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Global warming is a fucking scam. I cannot believe how many people buy into this shit. If you look at history you will see global temperatures rising and falling is cyclical. We are holding true to that pattern, based on past historical data. Why are we shocked that we are back in this cycle? If we were such a big contributor to global warming with CO2 emissions than we would be much further along in that cycle and have much higher temperatures, we are not, thus we do not seem to be altering the cycle in any way. That is the simplest explanation I can think of. There is a lot more data AGAINST global warming, but really all you need is logic.

LOL @ your logic

As noted, in lieu of a rant you should consider a little reading on your own. Considering your 'point in logic' ...

Global Dimming

It's quite a conundrum. Aerosols and particulate matter in air pollution mask the effect of greenhouse gases - so as we reduce certain pollutants we accelerate climate change.

What the Hell .... let's pollute more !!!