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45% of Americans Do Not Contribute Any Federal Income Taxes...

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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,322
126
Well, can't you still deduct your IRA...oh, wait, you make too much $$ because you're married and the wife works.

Loser.

I suggest that you vote Bernie. He'll give you all kinds of free stuff..
Yeah, it totally sucks to have more stuff and a better life than over half the people in the country...
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,876
460
126
I do think it is stupid to pay someone SS and then make them pay a tax on it. Just pay them a little less of a SS benefit and pay no taxes on the SS.
You don't necessarily know the person's income and deductions at disbursement.

I never understood why businesses get to deduct business expenses. I am not forcing them to be in business, so why should I have to pay their business expenses?
Wait - how are you "pay their business expenses"? Am I also paying your mortgage?

Yeah, it totally sucks to have more stuff and a better life than over half the people in the country...
We conservatives believe that having more stuff is not necessarily equal to having a better life. If someone else has more stuff, and he or she earned it, then bully for him or her.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
101,026
4,772
126
Savings by individual, average middle class people.
playing with the tax structure isn't going to turn people who can barely make ends meet into savers.

And the GOP trumpets its role in removing lower middle class Americans from paying income tax; we just also recognize the dangers of having such a large percentage not having skin in the game.
why should people have "skin in the game" when they can't even get into the casino? there's your real problem. it's not that people aren't paying income taxes, it's that they've been shut out of the economic benefits of the last 30 years.


Well said. And the current GOP position is not for fiscal responsibility either, it's just for a tiny bit more fiscal responsibility than the Dems, for purely political reasons. When they had the White House and both chambers, they were perfectly happy to spend like drunken sailors AND cut taxes, even though many of them had been true hawks on the deficit and overall spending just months before.
disagreed. fiscal responsibility does not mean cutting government during recession. but that's exactly what the republicans wanted to do, and then they claimed the mantle of "responsible." horseshit. not to mention the past 30 years basically proves it's a lie anyway - they're more profligate than the democrats during good times.


Am I also paying your mortgage?
does he write off the interest?
 
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Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,916
172
106
I never understood why businesses get to deduct business expenses. I am not forcing them to be in business, so why should I have to pay their business expenses?
It's an INCOME tax.

That means revenue - expenses = income.

You're not paying their expenses. Not in any sense.

Every one of those deductions taken at the business level means taxable income to someone else. He who receives/keeps the money pays the tax. The business deducts wages, the employees report that same amount as income (notwithstanding qualified retirement plans etc.). Likewise with supplies, rent, insurance etc.

If you tax only at gross revenue (before deductions) you have a tax, but not an income tax. The 16th Amendment permits only an income tax. I'm not quite sure how a tax on gross revenue w/b classified but it's questionable if it could be done under the Constitution.

Otherwise, a tax on gross revenue is such a poor idea virtually no country has one.

Fern
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,169
18,962
136
It's an INCOME tax.

That means revenue - expenses = income.

You're not paying their expenses. Not in any sense.

Every one of those deductions taken at the business level means taxable income to someone else. He who receives/keeps the money pays the tax. The business deducts wages, the employees report that same amount as income (notwithstanding qualified retirement plans etc.). Likewise with supplies, rent, insurance etc.

If you tax only at gross revenue (before deductions) you have a tax, but not an income tax. The 16th Amendment permits only an income tax. I'm not quite sure how a tax on gross revenue w/b classified but it's questionable if it could be done under the Constitution.

Otherwise, a tax on gross revenue is such a poor idea virtually no country has one.

Fern
Yes, on what planet would someone be taxed on money they didn't make? That would be beyond dumb.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,134
13,079
136
We conservatives believe that having more stuff is not necessarily equal to having a better life. If someone else has more stuff, and he or she earned it, then bully for him or her.
So why is it always about what you don't have rather than what you do have? About tearing down the very structure of the greatest democracy in History? Why is it always about lower taxes to take home more money when we've already resorted to that wrt federal taxes for nearly half the population & that those people often live in the deepest red of red states?

That's not a complaint about the money, at all, but it's important to realize that subsidies are necessary if their economies are not to collapse & small towns all across America not become ghost towns.

The worst thing that could happen to the Teatards is to give 'em what they want. Rich states would have more money to take care of their own & poor states would have... Freedumb!, right?
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,423
614
126
Having a phone that costs roughly zero dollars when you also have a plan with a carrier, and having cable, isn't somehow taking money out of your pocket. In fact, they're spending money into the economy, which makes it more likely that your labor is necessary to provide some product or service that someone wants.

I love how having a cell phone in 2016, or a television, is somehow something you're extremely worried about.
how is a cell phone plan and paying a cable bill not taking money out of their pocket??? I know about obama phones but is there a obama comcast?

if you have a luxury items like cell phones with data and cable tv you are not poor.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,134
13,079
136
Not really. Payroll taxes are for our direct benefit - basically a forced retirement and disability insurance program. Their roles in running the federal government at large are extremely small, by design. Income taxes are other general fund taxes (such as that portion of corporate income taxes paid by our purchases) would be skin in the game.
Please. SS has built a $2.7T trust fund loaning money to the general fund since the Reagan era.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,134
13,079
136
how is a cell phone plan and paying a cable bill not taking money out of their pocket??? I know about obama phones but is there a obama comcast?

if you have a luxury items like cell phones with data and cable tv you are not poor.
Oh, God! They might even have a refrigerator & a microwave, not to mention FM radio in a 10 year old clunker! Oh, the Humanity! Washer & Dryer? Unthinkable!
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
101,026
4,772
126
how is a cell phone plan and paying a cable bill not taking money out of their pocket??? I know about obama phones but is there a obama comcast?
universal service has been around since the 1930s. why is it an issue that it was updated to the times?

if you have a luxury items like cell phones with data and cable tv you are not poor.

and boy, these plans are amazing.

add on $30 a month to get 'unlimited data'
http://www.assurancewireless.com/Public/MorePrograms.aspx

Data services, Text Messaging and other enhanced services or features, international long distance and access to "900" numbers are not available to Lifeline customers.
http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/articles-resources/community-support/lifeline-link-up.jsp#Texas

data's an add on fee
https://www.budgetmobile.com/lifeline/

no mention of data for this one:
http://www.lifewireless.com/phones.php?sec=plans
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,322
126
how is a cell phone plan and paying a cable bill not taking money out of their pocket??? I know about obama phones but is there a obama comcast?

if you have a luxury items like cell phones with data and cable tv you are not poor.
Well if anyone that can afford a measly data plan and cable TV is middle class then it seems like the bar for being "rich" is way to high. Hell $100K a year would be rich by your metrics.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,630
181
106
Inyet, they find themselves running around preaching that the rich need to pay more.

The top 20% "rich" bracket pays nearly 87% of all FED Income taxes. Do some of you have problems realizing what this means? Essentially, when our government needs to pay our bills, the top 55% have to not only pay their share, but also the share of the remaining 45%. But the lower class is suffering... :rolleyes:



http://finance.yahoo.com/news/45-americans-pay-no-federal-140345017.html

My view? Make like all the countries that you liberals advocate for and let's go VAT. Instead of taking from people that earn money, why don't we reverse it and make it based off those that consume money. You know you guys love to toot the socialist demographics of euro nations, so what are you waiting for? Get out there and push for VAT.
That is just sad. 45% of working people don't earn enough to rise out of poverty and pay taxes. Oh wait do any of these super rich people work for a living or just collect like the Waltons and Kardashions?
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,630
181
106
how is a cell phone plan and paying a cable bill not taking money out of their pocket??? I know about obama phones but is there a obama comcast?

if you have a luxury items like cell phones with data and cable tv you are not poor.
How are communications and information not a necessity in modern society?
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,423
614
126
Well if anyone that can afford a measly data plan and cable TV is middle class then it seems like the bar for being "rich" is way to high. Hell $100K a year would be rich by your metrics.
sorry, but my point still stands. if you have spare money to pay for a cell phone with data along with directv then you are not poor.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,423
614
126
How are communications and information not a necessity in modern society?

i didnt say it wasn't, but its funny how you think not having a cell phone is being cut off from communication and information.

ever hear of a Library?

Oh wait...you mean INSTANT communication and INSTANT access to information? good grief how did we ever survive without smart phones?
 
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Nov 8, 2012
17,666
3,425
126
That is just sad. 45% of working people don't earn enough to rise out of poverty and pay taxes. Oh wait do any of these super rich people work for a living or just collect like the Waltons and Kardashions?
Because you know you're REALLY in the poor basket when you only have an iPhone 6. I mean who is that low amirite? By most of the standards by people in this thread, even if you have the latest smart phone with data you can still apparently be suffering on the brink of being homeless.

If a rich person invested smart and is living on dividends, who are you to say there is something wrong with that? They are indirectly responsible for hiring all the workers that those companies employ.
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,666
3,425
126
sorry, but my point still stands. if you have spare money to pay for a cell phone with data along with directv then you are not poor.
Ding ding. Someone isn't completely retarded. That's refreshing.

If you want "communications" as a necessity I expect you to have a piece of shit flip phone with only talk/text for the sole purpose of taking job related calls (interviews, etc...) That's the difference between 10-20/month and 50-100/month
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,175
423
126
Hell $100K a year would be rich by your metrics.
For a single person, no dependents, no debt, living in a very affordable area? It could certainly be well off. And for a frugal/smart investor as well... definitely could become rich.
 

BxgJ

Golden Member
Jul 27, 2015
1,054
123
106
Ding ding. Someone isn't completely retarded. That's refreshing.

If you want "communications" as a necessity I expect you to have a piece of shit flip phone with only talk/text for the sole purpose of taking job related calls (interviews, etc...) That's the difference between 10-20/month and 50-100/month
You even bother to look that up? Took me just a few minutes to go to, of all places a poor person might go, Walmart, and see low-end phones for 29 or so, with a prepaid plan for 30 with 100 mins and unlimited data (I'm sure throttled at some point like tmo does). Cheaper plans for those phones were available for as cheap as 9 elsewhere, also with some data. Point is, the idea that data is a luxury with cheap phone plans doesn't make sense anymore.

You can still argue it shouldn't be subsidized however.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
10,197
936
126
The top CEOs are reported to read 60+ books a year and works 70 plus hours a week. The average American reads less than 1 book a year and works 34 hours a week.

Many people are just lazy. Look at the long lines whenever those big lottery events take place. Why are immigrants 8x more likely than native born Americans to become wealthy? It's because they will work 16 hour days. They aren't spending their free time surfing the net, watching Netflix, playing video games, etc. Many of you people are just full of excuses.

Many Americans want money but aren't willing to put in the time. That's it. Complaining does sh*t.
 
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Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,714
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The top CEOs are reported to read 60+ books a year and works 70 plus hours a week. The average American reads less than 1 book a year and works 34 hours a week.

Many people are just lazy. Look at the long lines whenever those big lottery events. Why are immigrants 8x more likely than native born Americans to become wealthy? It's because they will work 16 hour days. They aren't spending their free time surfing the net, watching Netflix, playing video games, etc. Many of you people are just full of excuses.

Many Americans want money but aren't willing to put in the time. That's it. Complaining does sh*t.
re the 34 hrs/week and "lazy" Americans




"Americans do work hard. Americans work an average of 34.4 hours a week, longer than their counterparts in the world's largest economies.

Many work even longer. Adults employed full time report working an average of 47 hours per week, which equates to nearly six days a week, according to Gallup. That's about an hour and a half more than they reported a decade ago.

Nearly four in 10 workers report logging 50+ hours on the job.

Americans also receive fewer vacation days than their peers elsewhere -- and they don't even take all the time they are given. U.S. workers got about 15 days off in the past year and took 14 days, according to a 2014 Expedia.com survey. Europeans are given an average of 28 days, while workers in the Asia-Pacific receive 19, though they also don't take them all."

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/09/news/economy/americans-work-bush/

What a lazy bunch of bums, eh?
 

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