44th Anniversary of Israel's Attack on USS Liberty - 34 Killed, 173 Wounded

[EagleKeeper]

The rest of your post being redundant, i ll take this piece as an exemple
of blatant reversing of the truth.

Who is invading countries to loot their ressources , kill innocent people
in illegal wars , all this permitted by a non said racist ideology ?...

You re talking of theory while in true world, the muslims are daily
killed in their countries by westerners like you that justify their
crimes by diabolizing people and granting them your own savagery.

Your writings are low level, typical of any nazi that try to explain
thet he s in fact killing sub humans , and as such, it s no crime..

Truth is what one wants to see/believe, from any side.

Addressing some of your comments.

What looting is being done? Afghanistan has no resources that are being "looted". Oil being pumped in Iraq is not under Western control. Iraqis are doing their level best to ensure that nothing can get pumped no matter what. What other resources in Iraq are being looted?
What other countries are you referring to?

All wars can be considered to be illegal. The winner writes the history; the loser creates a version to justify their actions and loss.

More Muslims are being killed by Muslims than non Muslims.

 

[wwswimming]

Israel's Habit of Killing Gentiles goes back 3 decades before their attack on US troops in 1967.

That's a picture of the King David Hotel after a Jewish terrorist group named the Irgun blew it up.

Reference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

That was in 1946. On that day Jewish Terrorists killed 91 civilians, mostly British.

As usual, the Jewish Terrorists tried to blame the attack on Scary Muslims. It was a False Flag attack, Israel's specialty.


3 Decades ? Irgun, Haganah, and the Stern Gang terrorized Palestinian civilians from 1935 to 1948.

Israel's habit of killing Americans, British, and Palestinian Gentiles, including aid workers, continues to this present day.

In 2003, Israel murdered American Rachel Corrie.

In 2010, Israel killed 8 Turkish aid workers on the Mavi Marmara.

 

[JEDIYoda]

That's a picture of the King David Hotel after a Jewish terrorist group named the Irgun blew it up.

Reference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

That was in 1946. On that day Jewish Terrorists killed 91 civilians, mostly British.

As usual, the Jewish Terrorists tried to blame the attack on Scary Muslims. It was a False Flag attack, Israel's specialty.


3 Decades ? Irgun, Haganah, and the Stern Gang terrorized Palestinian civilians from 1935 to 1948.

Israel's habit of killing Americans, British, and Palestinian Gentiles, including aid workers, continues to this present day.

In 2003, Israel murdered American Rachel Corrie.

In 2010, Israel killed 8 Turkish aid workers on the Mavi Marmara.

The palestinians are there own worse enema...

also More Muslims are being killed by Muslims than non Muslims.

oh...boohoo boohoo I say boohoo or as we say in Hebrew -- בוהוו,בוהוו ,בוהוו

 

[Craig234]

I think Israel has some reprehensible policies and they have no end in sight and they are not held nearly accountable as they should be.

But I think Wwswimming is doing a lot more harm than good by poor representation of the issues, based more on anti-semitism it seems than legitimate issues.

His posts push me to defend Israel's side on the issues he lists.

I think it's sad Israel has a long-term view to largely get rid of the Palestinians from many areas it wants, and has the power to get away with it.

They know that as they do it, it'll become 'accepted' and basically impossible to reverse.

They just need to keep playing the victim long enough to keep the policies in place.

It's not as if Israel are the 'bad guys' and Muslims are the 'good guys' in the area, not at all. Israel has a lot to be proud of. It's just the situation leads to large injustice and suffering, based on the 'tribal' separation of the groups there, so that the only 'peace' many are comfortable with is defeating the other side, or having the power to do so.

Most of use lean towards wanting just 'peace with an end to violence' as things stand, but that's perhaps about the last thing many of the people there see as acceptable.

How often have we been trying that? Korea, we tried it in Vietnam, for decades in Germany, we're stuck now with Libya split... how well does that go?

'Complete victories' have happened in our civil war, in WWII, they were brutal, but the situation later was pretty stable (other than our South still trying to destroy the US).

If Israel had 'total victory' or the Muslim nations, did, we probably would see a great stabilization follow, but it doesn't seem worth the price either way.

But it's damned hard to find any 'compromise peace', when one side has the upper hand and negotiates on that basis, and the other refuses to accept a bad deal.

Time is on Israel's side as they win with force what they can't negotiate, and the Muslims view resistance as better than surrender and those their only choices.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Israel's Habit of Killing Gentiles goes back 3 decades before their attack on US troops in 1967.

That's a picture of the King David Hotel after a Jewish terrorist group named the Irgun blew it up.

Reference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

That was in 1946. On that day Jewish Terrorists killed 91 civilians, mostly British.

As usual, the Jewish Terrorists tried to blame the attack on Scary Muslims. It was a False Flag attack, Israel's specialty.


3 Decades ? Irgun, Haganah, and the Stern Gang terrorized Palestinian civilians from 1935 to 1948.

Israel's habit of killing Americans, British, and Palestinian Gentiles, including aid workers, continues to this present day.

In 2003, Israel murdered American Rachel Corrie.

In 2010, Israel killed 8 Turkish aid workers on the Mavi Marmara.

Corrie chose to stand in front of s bulldozer where she could not be seem! Somewhat like a person stepping from s platform in front of s train. Suicide thinking that the machine could stop in time.

Turkish activists that chose to attack Israeli forces. Again, accept the results of the game you chose to play .

In both cases you cited, they were looking for trouble and found it. More than was expected.

On King David, the British were alerted with a phone call and they chose to ignore the warning

 

[HamburgerBoy]

On King David, the British were alerted with a phone call and they chose to ignore the warning

Didn't the USA have some foreknowledge of 9/11? :hmm:

And what were the demands of the warning, anyways? Can I just blow up your house and say "Hey, better leave cuz its happening!" and it be ok?

 

[Lemon law]

The whole point is and remains, The USA has forgiven Israel for the USS liberty and now its just ancient history. As our OP just beats a dead horse with all the success that beating a dead horse usually has.

The other point is and remains, Israel has cultivated a Pro-Israeli press inside of the USA while by in large failing to do so anywhere else in the world. So to a large extent, the rest of the world sees Israel far more accurately than we in the US.

But the same Israeli paranoia that motivated the attack on the US liberty has also motivated the Israeli rape of Lebanon, the Israeli war crimes in the rape of Gaza, and also causes Israeli over confidence that they can forever get away with preventing a Palestinian State. In terms of most of the rest of the world, Israel is already on more than probation, but its not rocket science to predict that if Israeli arrogance does not change, one of these fine days Israeli will pull a similar stunt to the Israeli attack on the USS liberty, and US public support of Israel will vanish like snow on a hot tin roof.

Until then, Israel is skating on mighty thin ice given its current crazy leadership.

But in saying all that and issuing that warning to Israeli fan clubbers like EK and JediY, there is no joy to be found in seeing any given side being dope slapped and totally defeated like Israel seems headed to, when the better outcome win win is to see Israelis, Palestinians, and Arabs working together to build a peaceful and prosperous Mid-east. And I just ask, why not?

 

[Craig234]

Corridors chose to stand in front of s bulldozer where she could not be seem! Somewhat like a person stepping from s platform in front of s train. Suicide thinking that the machine could stop in time.

You should have the decency to get the name right. We do not know that. It's clear she did NOT want to get run over, and a bulldozer can stop a lot more easily than a train.

What is clear is that the operator chose to continue operating in a manner with danger to running over the protesters.

Activists that chose to attack Israeli forces. Again, accept the results of the game you chose to play .

In both cases you cited, they were looking for trouble and found it. More than was expected.

On King David, the British were alerted with a phone call and they chose to ignore the warning

You're right there's 'another side to the story' on each of the stories listed. But how much 'they called to warn before blowing it up' mitigates it as terrorism is probably greatly affected by how much sympathy you have for them. If the same thing happened to a Washington, D. C. hotel by a group we don't like, we probably wouldn't excuse it much.

Terrorism was kind of different back then as well, more likely to avoid killing.

Remember early days of a hijacked jet, when negotiations led to a safe release of passengers and escape for the hijackers.

 

[0roo0roo]

The whole point is and remains, The USA has forgiven Israel for the USS liberty and now its just ancient history. As our OP just beats a dead horse with all the success that beating a dead horse usually has.

The other point is and remains, Israel has cultivated a Pro-Israeli press inside of the USA while by in large failing to do so anywhere else in the world. So to a large extent, the rest of the world sees Israel far more accurately than we in the US.

But the same Israeli paranoia that motivated the attack on the US liberty has also motivated the Israeli rape of Lebanon, the Israeli war crimes in the rape of Gaza, and also causes Israeli over confidence that they can forever get away with preventing a Palestinian State. In terms of most of the rest of the world, Israel is already on more than probation, but its not rocket science to predict that if Israeli arrogance does not change, one of these fine days Israeli will pull a similar stunt to the Israeli attack on the USS liberty, and US public support of Israel will vanish like snow on a hot tin roof.

Until then, Israel is skating on mighty thin ice given its current crazy leadership.

But in saying all that and issuing that warning to Israeli fan clubbers like EK and JediY, there is no joy to be found in seeing any given side being dope slapped and totally defeated like Israel seems headed to, when the better outcome win win is to see Israelis, Palestinians, and Arabs working together to build a peaceful and prosperous Mid-east. And I just ask, why not?

Not really, the idea israel has some kind of bizarre power over the press is nothing more than conspiracy theory which stems from the old accusations made to justify hatred of the jews. The rest of the world has a problem with antisemitism, no matter how progressive the europeans and such places get, underneath it all they still harbor anti jewish views, it only has transformed into more acceptable forms, which is why you constantly hear them harping about zionism and the such to mask their speech. The right wing was made to pay after the big war, but the left wing also harbored antisemetic view points, anti banker anti capitalist ideology fed right into their preexisting anti jewish views...and the under current of anti semitic bias continues to this day.. It is why you see the bizarre coalitions of so called progressive leftists joining in arms with anti progressive muslims in many european countries. They'll call for boycotts of of israel, but total silence when homosexuals are sentenced to death in iran or such, or pakistan has women sentenced to gang rape and then the perpetrators are all let off.

The rest of the world doesn't see this issue any clearer, they only see it through the distortions of their own bias. It is why you have leaders of countries in the UN spouting blatently antisemetic nonsense, or conspiracy theories and thinking that it is perfectly ok. It is why a disturbingly huge proportion of arab states populations believe total nonsense like that there were no muslims involved in 9/11. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/21/majority-muslims-arabs-not-responsible-911_n_906176.html When in many countries 75%+ don't have an accurate view of even recent history you are trying to tell us they have the more fair view of world events and israel? Give me a break.

 

[Lemon law]

Ok OK, a in denial Oroo Oroo has every right to ask for a break, but may discover that his position is on future gets broken.

 

[0roo0roo]

The only thing you are in denial about is the pervasive nature of antisemitism in this world. When majorities of many populations can warp even recent history to blame the jews you know something is very wrong.

 

[Nebor]

Ok OK, a in denial Oroo Oroo has every right to ask for a break, but may discover that his position is on future gets broken.

Is this even English?

 

[Craig234]

They'll call for boycotts of of israel, but total silence when homosexuals are sentenced to death in iran or such, or pakistan has women sentenced to gang rape and then the perpetrators are all let off.

As one progressive, I am appalled at the issues you mention, and strongly oppose them, and want to see them get a lot more international awareness and reaction against them.

I just don't see killing all the people in the countries doing it as a good way to end the practices.

It is why a disturbingly huge proportion of arab states populations believe total nonsense like that there were no muslims involved in 9/11.

That's common. We Americans have many, many citizens unaware of our own history.

When in many countries 75%+ don't have an accurate view of even recent history you are trying to tell us they have the more fair view of world events and israel? Give me a break.

It's not unusual for a country to have a better understanding of another country's issues, than that other country does, in the middle of all the propaganda to influence them.

Some of the best reporting on US issues, including a lot of new information, comes from places like the Guardian - or even Al-Jazeera.

For example, has there been as fair a documentary on US TV as the following one from Al-Jazeera on our financial crisis - even if the information is largely not new?

http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/faultlines/2011/08/201181125338194522.html

Al-Jazeera has a whole series just on the US's issues - click 'Americas' on the following link, shows like this would be a major improvement for any network in the US:

http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/faultlines/

It also has shows for global regions. Good stuff.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Didn't the USA have some foreknowledge of 9/11? :hmm:

And what were the demands of the warning, anyways? Can I just blow up your house and say "Hey, better leave cuz its happening!" and it be ok?

British were given phone calls stating that there was a bomb in the hotel set to explode in x minutes.

From Wiki

Since the bombing, much controversy has ensued over the issues of when warnings were sent and how the British authorities responded. Irguns representatives have always stated that the warning was given well in advance of the explosion, so that adequate time was available to evacuate the hotel. Menachem Begin, for example, writes that the telephone message was delivered 25–27 minutes before the explosion.[13] It is often stated that the British authorities have always denied that a warning was sent. However, what the British Government said, five months after the bombing, once the subsequent inquest and all the inquiries had been completed, was not that no warning had been sent, but that no such warning had been received by anyone at the Secretariat "in an official position with any power to take action."[14]
American author Thurston Clarke's analysis of the bombing gave timings for calls and for the explosion which he says took place at 12:37. He said that as part of the Irgun plan, a sixteen year old recruit, Adina Hay (alias Tehia), was to make three warning calls before the attack. At 12:22 the first call was made, in both Hebrew and English, to a telephone operator on the hotel's switchboard (the Secretariat and the military each had their own, separate, telephone exchanges). It was ignored.[3] At 12:27, the second warning call was made to the French Consulate adjacent to the hotel to the north-east. This second call was taken seriously and staff went through the building opening windows and closing curtains to lessen the impact of the blast. At 12:31 a third and final warning call to the Palestine Post newspaper was made. The telephone operator called the Palestine Police CID to report the message. She then called the hotel switchboard. The hotel operator reported the threat to one of the hotel managers. This warning resulted in the discovery of the milk churns in the basement, but by then it was too late.[3]

Our 9/11 advance warning, if you want to call it, that were pieces of information that were not put together as a puzzle until after the fact; And even then; the puzzle would not have been complete enough to shut down the system.

It was not like someone called the FBI or FAA and stated that 4 airliners were to be hijacked that AM and flown into government buildings.


Nice try at deflection though

 

[EagleKeeper]

Corrie chose to stand in front of s bulldozer where she could not be seem! Somewhat like a person stepping from a platform in front of a train. Suicide thinking that the machine could stop in time.

You should have the decency to get the name right. We do not know that. It's clear she did NOT want to get run over, and a bulldozer can stop a lot more easily than a train.

What is clear is that the operator chose to continue operating in a manner with danger to running over the protesters.

Activists that chose to attack Israeli forces. Again, accept the results of the game you chose to play .

In both cases you cited, they were looking for trouble and found it. More than was expected.

On King David, the British were alerted with a phone call and they chose to ignore the warning

You're right there's 'another side to the story' on each of the stories listed. But how much 'they called to warn before blowing it up' mitigates it as terrorism is probably greatly affected by how much sympathy you have for them. If the same thing happened to a Washington, D. C. hotel by a group we don't like, we probably wouldn't excuse it much.

Terrorism was kind of different back then as well, more likely to avoid killing.

Remember early days of a hijacked jet, when negotiations led to a safe release of passengers and escape for the hijackers.

There are statements that the operator of the bulldozer did not realize that she was there. Also, when a piece of heavy equipment starts to advance on you; a reasonably sane person is expected to move out of the way; they had made their point.


I have corrected the errors caused by trying to post from a "smart phone"

 

[Craig234]

There are statements that the operator of the bulldozer did not realize that she was there. Also, when a piece of heavy equipment starts to advance on you; a reasonably sane person is expected to move out of the way; they had made their point.

Link your evidence; I haven't seen any convincing evidence either way. Others there contradict your version. Did he know they were there at all? I think he did. Did she fall?

 

[randomrogue]

There was a man in my house. I fought with this man. He had a mechanical arm. You find this man. You find this man.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Link your evidence; I haven't seen any convincing evidence either way. Others there contradict your version. Did he know they were there at all? I think he did. Did she fall?

I also have heard multiple accounts. Some are that she had chained herself after the bulldozer was started.

A bulldozer operator can not see in front of it when the blade is up; they guide themselves by side references.

From Wiki

Rachel Aliene Corrie (April 10, 1979 – March 16, 2003) was an American member of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM). She was killed in the Gaza Strip by an Israel Defence Forces (IDF) bulldozer when she was standing or kneeling in front of a local Palestinian's home, thus acting as a human shield, attempting to prevent the IDF from demolishing the home. The IDF stated that the death was due to the restricted angle of view of the IDF Caterpillar D9 bulldozer driver, while ISM eyewitnesses said "there was nothing to obscure the driver's view."[1]

There are conflicting statements

March 16 – Rachel Corrie, an American member of the International Solidarity Movement in Rafah, in the Gaza Strip, is killed in a residential area of Rafah by an Israel Defense Forces (IDF) bulldozer while she was kneeling in front of the home of a local Palestinian Arab, acting as a human shield and attempting to prevent IDF forces from demolishing the home. The IDF has claimed that the death was due to the restricted angle of view of the IDF Caterpillar D9 bulldozer driver, while ISM eyewitnesses said "there was nothing to obscure the driver's view."[4]

Look at the size of the bulldozer and the line of sight for the operator.D9
A 3ft tall item is not going to be visible in front of a 5ft blade, especially if it was originally 5 ft when the bulldozer was able to view it.