44th Anniversary of Israel's Attack on USS Liberty - 34 Killed, 173 Wounded

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Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
I knew a guy who waqs on the ship and he said the Israelis knew EXACTLY what they were doing.

Just like the Israeli gunboat Captain knew he was threatening the ship (USS Dupont DD-941) I was on off the coast of Beirut in 1982. The Captain of the gunboat wanted to sink the ship that was evacuating Arafat/PLO so badly he was willing to attack/sink a US ship.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
Ridiculous. It was friendly fire. That happens in war or even in peace like when Saddam, our ally, hit USS Stark and killed a bunch of sailors. We didn't do anything because it was a mistake.

But old habits die hard with hatred for jews I see.

Friendly fire? They had tracked the ship for hours and did several fly-bys. I believe they knew exactly what ship they were dealing with.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
As everyone basically know, I am not an pro-Israeli fan clubber. But I have to wonder where this thread is going or what it can yield. Shortly thereafter the USS Liberty was illegally attacked by Israel, the coverup on the part of Israel and the US was busily underway. And now, expect for historians, its basically a dead issue. So why beat a dead horse?

There is still a vigorous ongoing process to finally get a Palestinian State. So I focus on the future than the past.

But still, if Israel ever loses massive US PR, the Liberty incident could come back front and center. And on the international front, since Bozo Netanyuhu has somewhat destroyed the prior Oslo hope of a mutually negotiated Israeli Palestinian settlement, and if the UN finally decides on a declared Palestinian State, the borders instead may well be decided on past mid-east history including the US liberty incident on the basis of third party arbitration.

But the latest peace news seems to be, despite the best efforts of Obama to avoid US embarrassment in September, the French will hold peace talks anyway despite Obama efforts to Torpedo them. The Pals are aboard, Israel has not said yah or nay yet. The Rafah border crossing is open again, and Turkish elections are 5 days away.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,506
0
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Friendly fire? They had tracked the ship for hours and did several fly-bys. I believe they knew exactly what ship they were dealing with.


and where is your proof?


some "memorial for the USS Liberty" website?


yes it was a said incident. Americans lost lives.


yes it was 44 years ago.


http://www.jpost.com/Features/InThespotlight/Article.aspx?id=224111


The Six Day War in 1967 saw Israel vanquish its Arab enemies in a stunning defeat on land, sea and in the air. There is one event, however, that remains a blemish in Israel’s victory – the attack on the US Navy ship Liberty on June 8.

Israeli warplanes and navy ships strafed and torpedoed the USS Liberty, an American spy ship sailing off the Israeli shores in the Mediterranean Sea, on the fourth day of the war. Thirty-four crew were killed and 170 wounded in the attack. An official US and Israeli investigation determined that the attack was an accident. Israel apologized and paid compensation to the families of the victims.

RELATED:
This Week in History: Israeli commandos retake Flight 571

But even now, 44 years later, the attack remains the subject of theories purporting intrigue, conspiracies and cover-ups by those who believe the truth as yet to be told.

“The evidence is overwhelming that it was a tragic case of mistaken identity,” Judge A. Jay Cristol, a former US aviator, federal courts judge and author of The Liberty Incident, told The Media Line.

Interviewed on the eve of the publication of a revised edition of his 2002 book, Cristol asserts that newly declassified transcripts and histories prove equivocally that Israel thought it was attacking an Egyptian military supply ship when it ordered its jets and torpedo boats to attack.

The Miami judge has spent over two decades investigating the case. He has tracked down nearly every figure involved in it and fought court battles to win the release of secret tapes of the attack made by the US National Security Agency (NSA).

“The bottom line of the book confirms what [US President Lyndon] Johnson discovered, what the president’s foreign advisory board concluded, the CIA, the National Security Agency, the State Department, the US Navy’s court of inquiry, and several congressional inquires all concluded,” Spector says.. “It was a tragic mistake.”

But some survivors insist that there never was an official US government investigation into the attack.

“I have contacted the historians of both the US House of Representatives and the US Senate. Both told me that they cannot find any reference in the documents available to them of any congressional investigation of the attack on our ship,” says Joe Meadors, president of the Liberty Veterans Association, told The Media Line.

Meadors, who served on the ship at the time of the attack, says he remains “puzzled” by the repeated claims that the US government had conducted an investigation of the attack “given how easy it is to refute by contacting the US government.”

Cristol’s book, however, lists five congressional investigations since 1967. Asked what he suggested was left to uncover, Cristol says he can’t imagine anything.

“I don’t’ think there is anything left to be investigated. It’s all out there. I think the dissemination of the facts is of some value,” he says. “Even Liberty crew members who read my book or became aware of the facts agreed that it was a tragic case of mistaken identity, while other Liberty crew members who have been more or less captured by the anti-Israel side of the issue have called their fellow crew members ‘traitors,’ which I think is very sad.”

One of the most telling, and chilling, parts of the book is a transcript of the Israeli Air Force audiotapes of the radio transmissions made before, during and after the attack. This reporter also heard the tapes of the attack. There are a number of dramatic moments, including jockey calls by a pilot that it would be a "mitzvah" to sink the ship before the Navy arrived and another says it was “easier than MiGs,” a reference to the main type of fighter jet used by the Egyptian Air Force at the time.

The pilots speak only before and after they act. There are full minutes of almost total silence as they stage the attack and racking up casualties.

The pilots of the four jets that attacked the Liberty remained anonymous for decades. One died in 1979 in an aviation accident, and in 2003, one of them agreed to give this reporter an exclusive interview of his impressions from that fateful day.

He is Yitfach Spector, a famous Israeli pilot who went on to become a triple ace, shooting down 15 enemy aircraft, and taking part in the infamous 1981 raid on the Iraqi nuclear reactor. He was finally dismissed from the Air Force in 2003 for signing a letter with other pilots protesting the policy of targeted killings of Palestinian terrorists.

Brig.-Gen. (ret.) Spector says in that interview that the Americans aboard the Liberty were “lucky” he wasn’t carrying any iron bombs otherwise he would have sunk the ship.

“There was a mistake. Mistakes happen. As far as I know, the mistake was of the USS Liberty being there in the first place,” says Spector, who at the time was deputy squadron commander of the 101st and used the code name “Kursa” during the attack.

"I was told on the radio that it was an Egyptian ship off the Gaza coast. Hit it. The luck of the ship was that I was armed only with light ammunition against aircraft. If I had had a bomb it would be sitting on the bottom today like the Titanic. I promise you," Spector says.

Cristol and Spector remain baffled about the persistence of the conspiracy theories that assert that Israel deliberately attacked the ship. Some theories suggest Israel hit the ship because it picked up communications that Israel was about to invade Syria, or was massacred prisoners of war. Cristol suggests it had to do with anti-Israel sentiments.

“There are people who are anti-Israel or who are on the other side of the Arab-Israeli conflict and because the United States-Israel relationship is so strong and so good they find very few ways to attack it. This is one of the focal points on which they like to aim when they are attempting to attack and destroy that relationship,” Cristol says.

Cristol balks at speculation that perhaps the Israeli Air Force had let him listen to tapes that had been tampered with to cut out embarrassing or incriminating transmissions. He says the tapes jive too perfectly with the NSA recordings to be fake.

“It would have been rather difficult for the Israelis, not even knowing of the existence of these tapes, to have created these transmissions that they recorded that coincided with the transmissions which were on the US tapes. It’s pretty clear that the tapes are authentic,” Cristol told The Media Line.

“When I started I was naive. I thought merely collecting the information and the data and putting it in one place and publishing it would resolve the problem. But I am sad to say that the anti-Israel people and the conspiracy people are not interested in the facts. They are only interested in attacking Israel. They’re not concerned with truth and they don’t hesitate to tell lies and make false statements for the purpose of achieving their goal which is attacking the US-Israel relationship,” Cristol says.

“I don’t know if it will ever go away,” he says.

Despite various inquiries one question has remained paramount on the minds of Joe Meadors and his fellow survivors: why were we ordered to be abandoned while still under attack and calling for help? Asked why he thought the Israelis would attack the Liberty, Meadors says: “I don’t know and really don’t care.”

look at this article. it says it was a mistake with "undoubted sources"
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,506
0
76
As everyone basically know, I am not an pro-Israeli fan clubber. But I have to wonder where this thread is going or what it can yield. Shortly thereafter the USS Liberty was illegally attacked by Israel, the coverup on the part of Israel and the US was busily underway. And now, expect for historians, its basically a dead issue. So why beat a dead horse?

There is still a vigorous ongoing process to finally get a Palestinian State. So I focus on the future than the past.

But still, if Israel ever loses massive US PR, the Liberty incident could come back front and center. And on the international front, since Bozo Netanyuhu has somewhat destroyed the prior Oslo hope of a mutually negotiated Israeli Palestinian settlement, and if the UN finally decides on a declared Palestinian State, the borders instead may well be decided on past mid-east history including the US liberty incident on the basis of third party arbitration.

But the latest peace news seems to be, despite the best efforts of Obama to avoid US embarrassment in September, the French will hold peace talks anyway despite Obama efforts to Torpedo them. The Pals are aboard, Israel has not said yah or nay yet. The Rafah border crossing is open again, and Turkish elections are 5 days away.



wrong wrong again.


UN recognition is not going to happen.

The US, which is the major financial supporter for the PA and the UN already threatened to cut money for either group

http://www.jpost.com/ArtsAndCulture/Entertainment/Article.aspx?id=224171

(US to UN)

I dont need to link proof about the PA.



France can be whatever it wants, but if the PA is going to continually demand demand demand, its going to leave with nothing.



http://www.debka.com/article/20988/

rafah is closed again.






more bullshit from the horses ass
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
As ole FGD says, "UN recognition is not going to happen."

Just keep telling yourself that again and again, but the chances of Israel hanging on to disputed territory is zero long term. Israel keeps trying to delay it, but the demands are escalating. As for Bozo Netanyuhu, all he did was paint himself into a corner. As the Israeli propaganda position is too wide to straddle.

But as I pointed out to you and Israel, the worst thing that could happen to Israel is to revisit the Israeli past, from 1947 and there on.

To say a Palestinian State will happen on 9/2011 may be a stretch, but when Netanyuhu destroyed the Oslo process, its made the Israeli game untenable. Look for Netanyuhu to fall first, as the position he charted is too wide to straddle, even in Israel.

Because yes FGD, the world may have to revisit the Liberty incident as well as recent Israeli incidents in the Golan heights, when Israel shot unarmed protesters. I can link in editorial articles from JPost and Haaretz, on that point, but you would ignore them.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,506
0
76
As ole FGD says, "UN recognition is not going to happen."

Its not going to happen. Obama has already stated he will veto it. its done.


Just keep telling yourself that again and again, but the chances of Israel hanging on to disputed territory is zero long term. Israel keeps trying to delay it, but the demands are escalating. As for Bozo Netanyuhu, all he did was paint himself into a corner. As the Israeli propaganda position is too wide to straddle.

nothing has changed since 1967. its more Palestinian bullshit.

But as I pointed out to you and Israel, the worst thing that could happen to Israel is to revisit the Israeli past, from 1947 and there on.

you mean, the 1948 war when israel was attacked by 7 countries, the 1967 war where israel won in 6 days, or the surprise attack against israel in 1973 that almost enabled the use of tactical nukes in the warzone?

or the continual suicide bombings, rocket and mortar attacks, tit for tat violence on the borders, that has existed since its creation?

yea, lets revisit it all.

To say a Palestinian State will happen on 9/2011 may be a stretch, but when Netanyuhu destroyed the Oslo process, its made the Israeli game untenable. Look for Netanyuhu to fall first, as the position he charted is too wide to straddle, even in Israel.

backing off your claim again.

After the speeches here in the US, Netanyahu's approval ratings shot up.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...ty-soaring-following-washington-trip-1.364068

from 36% to 51%

he isnt going anywhere

Because yes FGD, the world may have to revisit the Liberty incident as well as recent Israeli incidents in the Golan heights, when Israel shot unarmed protesters. I can link in editorial articles from JPost and Haaretz, on that point, but you would ignore them.

Syria-

HAHA what a joke.

http://www.debka.com/article/21000/

Assad paid Golan demonstrators $1,000 apiece, but turnout scanty
He is paying his people so the news goes away from him slaughtering his own and onto israel protecting its borders.


you know how some of those people died? they threw Molotov cocktails on minefields.

but its israels fault right??

I dont care about editorials. they mean very little from the true fact because people's political viewpoint takes over.

True fact: Assad paid for some of the protesters to march at the border. Places specifically chosen for the minefields.

True fact: Assad is murdering his people. Many are fleeing to the Turkish border and Assad wants the media off him.

True fact: These so called "peaceful" protesters were rushing the border. Unknown to the soldiers what they may have under their clothes.

True fact: Israeli security forces attempted to fire towards the feet of the protesters in an effort to get them to stop.

True fact: Syria has the duty to protect its own citizens from danger, including border violence with another country.



and all while the UK, France and the EU are writing up papers for sanctions on Syria.
 
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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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I have one simple question for you FGD, what gives you the idea I am defending Syria?
If Assad of Syria and Bozo Netanyuhu consign them selves into a common dumper, the entire world will be better off for it. Just more good riddance to bad rubbish.

And as more good riddance, in common dumper, lets haul off Acmadinejad and the Mullahs of Iran.
All turds of a feather who mutually deserve each other.

Get rid of the crazies and it leaves room for more moderate voices to solve common problems.
 
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Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,506
0
76
I have one simple question for you FGD, what gives you the idea I am defending Syria?
If Assad of Syria and Bozo Netanyuhu consign them selves into a common dumper, the entire world will be better off for it. Just more good riddance to bad rubbish.

And as more good riddance, in common dumper, lets haul off Acmadinejad and the Mullahs of Iran.
All turds of a feather who mutually deserve each other.

Get rid of the crazies and it leaves room for more moderate voices to solve common problems.


it comes down to either defending israels policy or not. and you are a fan of bashing it.

you obviously support those syrian protesters because you dont think israel deserves to keep the golan, which its never giving away and you obviously blame israel for the palestinian refugee problem today
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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it comes down to either defending israels policy or not. and you are a fan of bashing it.

you obviously support those syrian protesters because you dont think israel deserves to keep the golan, which its never giving away and you obviously blame israel for the palestinian refugee problem today
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me restate what you just said. What you are saying is MY COUNTRY RIGHT OR WRONG.

Which is a very dangerous position for any country.

I on the other hand, believe in doing what is right. And even if the USA is my country, I am willing to be openly critical of bad US policy.

Israel has many virtues, but sadly, at present, its vices far outweigh its virtues. Give me an Israel worthy of support and I will support it. Nor am I the only Israeli critic, foreign or domestic. As many Jews and perhaps a majority of Israeli Jews are making statements very similar to mine.

Maybe at some future time, FGD, you will come to realize that Bozo Netanyuhu and his crazed settler parties are now, what Hitler, Mussolini, and the war Lords of Japan were prior to WW2. Simply unmitigated disasters to their nation's future. Who choose Greed and brutality over rational civilized human behavior.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
I knew a guy who waqs on the ship and he said the Israelis knew EXACTLY what they were doing.

This is an absurd claim: Please inform us how this "guy" was able to read the minds of the Israeli pilots and determine that the pilots "knew EXACTLY" that the ship was American.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,604
39,931
136
The official story is a crock of shit and anyone who has taken the time to read the testimony of the crew should be able to see that.

Some of the Israeli pilots refused to open fire on the Liberty, as they could clearly see it was not a run down Egyptian horse transport, a vessel half the size of the Liberty. Oh and then there was the huge American flag flying high (on display at Ft. Meade too btw) Funny how gun boats that circled in continuous attack managed to not notice.

Then there was the U2 flight that was recording the whole event, listening to the Israelis argue about whether they should be following the order to sink the vessel.

This was a far different scenario than the Stark, where someone launched a missile at a mistaken blip. This was hours of fly overs with napalm, cannon fire and rockets being used - distances under a mile. It's hard to think gun boats could circle within 100yds, continuously firing upon sailors that were calling out to them in English and maintain that it was a case of mistaken identity.
There was deadly intent there, which is why all the life boats were themselves machine gunned as soon as they were launched.

It was a despicable attack, followed by a disgusting cover up (Johnson had the intelligence guys bury the U2 records). He covered it up in exchange for Jewish American and Israeli support for Vietnam. The surviving sailors were threatened not to speak of it, the ones that spoke up or wrote books about the attack were smeared and maligned as anti-Semites by the Israel-first crowd - even the Jewish sailors who survived!

The Israelis knew exactly who and what the ship was, which is why they immediately targeted the ships electronic sensors and dishes. Funny equipment and emphasis for dealing with an unarmed rusty Egyptian horse carrier, eh?



Edit: forgot to provide http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.html

My mistake, it wasn't a U2 - from the link:

"The attack on 'Liberty' was fading into obscurity until last week, when intelligence expert James Bamford came out with Body of Secrets, his latest book about the National Security Agency. In a stunning revelation, Bamford writes that unknown to Israel, a US Navy EC-121 intelligence aircraft was flying high overhead the 'Liberty,' electronically recorded the attack. The US aircraft crew provides evidence that the Israeli pilots knew full well that they were attacking a US Navy ship flying the American flag."
 
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routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
837
0
0
Someone gets it !

The only human beings on Earth known to celebrate 9-11 on 9-11 were 5 Israeli men who were captured in Bergen Park, New Jersey.

As was reported in the following papers -
* Haaretz, September 16
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/09/WTC.html
* ABC News
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123885&page=1
* Bergen Park Record
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/12/WTC_Mysteries3.html

They were raucously celebrating & high-fiving as they watched the events unfold across the Hudson River in New York state. They were taken into custody by the US government.

It was written up in the Bergen Park newspaper, among other news sources, then subsequently expunged - not unlike how the USS Liberty incident has been expunged from US history textbooks.

Israel doesn't want American schoolchildren finding out the truth about Israel's past & present.


That's one example of the Israeli penchant for Ritual Human Sacrifice.

Another is thoroughly documented in the book by Israeli History Professor, Ariel Toaff, in his book, Blood Passover

http://bloodpassover.com/index1.htm

The capture and ritual sacrifice of Gentile children was an unfortunate custom among Jewish rabbi's in the Middle Ages, as documented by Professor Toaff.

One such incident resulted in the 2 year old child being given Sainthood by the Catholic church. The child's name was Simon, now Saint Simon of Trent -

http://www.stsimonoftrent.com/


One has to wonder if this is what Jesus was talking about when He used the term "Synagogue of Satan".

Was Jesus - a Jew who criticized criminal & murderous behavior practiced by other Jews - anti-Semitic ?

Wow, you are a Nazi, and a Jew hater. You should be banned for your anti-semitic speech. Hitler!
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
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This is an absurd claim: Please inform us how this "guy" was able to read the minds of the Israeli pilots and determine that the pilots "knew EXACTLY" that the ship was American.

Right or wrong, accounts I've heard claim that the Israeli pilots had flown by very closely repeatedly, where they could see pilot facial features, and the US flag was clearly flying.

There are a lot of disputed accounts about the incident to look, at but it's at least possible that they could say there's no reasonable way the pilots didn't know.

It comes down to what happened - both scenarios could be argued.
 

wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
3,695
1
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http://www.usslibertyveterans.org

In case any of you feel like donating to sailors who got screwed over by their allies and their leaders.

that's the whole point.

we just had Memorial Day - remember, we're supposed to honor American soldiers ?


so why does Israel get a pass - because they think they're "Chosen People" ? because they have an aptitude for lying ... "oh, we didn't know it was an American ship, we're SO sorry".

Israel bombed, strafed, & torpedoed the Liberty in a Grand Hurry because - they wanted to blame it on Egypt.

but it didn't quite work out, so they had to put pressure on LBJ to bankroll a cover up. LBJ wanted the American Jewish community to support the War on Vietnam, so he was reluctant to piss them off TOO much.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
that's the whole point.

we just had Memorial Day - remember, we're supposed to honor American soldiers ?


so why does Israel get a pass - because they think they're "Chosen People" ? because they have an aptitude for lying ... "oh, we didn't know it was an American ship, we're SO sorry".

Israel bombed, strafed, & torpedoed the Liberty in a Grand Hurry because - they wanted to blame it on Egypt.

but it didn't quite work out, so they had to put pressure on LBJ to bankroll a cover up. LBJ wanted the American Jewish community to support the War on Vietnam, so he was reluctant to piss them off TOO much.


The Israeli's didn't know it was an American ship because the US told them there were no US ships in the area. It is just as plausible that the Liberty intentionally tried to get itself attacked by purposefully posing as the Egyptian ship as it is that the Israelis intentionally attacked a US ship to blame it on the Egyptians. There is zero evidence to support either claim, and both are ridiculous scenarios.

I don't know why I bother replying anyway. You are just as much of a paranoid delusional anti-semitic kook as kyleb. You automatically skew everything to fit your preconceived anti-semitic notions and disregard all evidence to the contrary as part of a conspiracy.
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
The official story is a crock of shit and anyone who has taken the time to read the testimony of the crew should be able to see that.

Some of the Israeli pilots refused to open fire on the Liberty, as they could clearly see it was not a run down Egyptian horse transport, a vessel half the size of the Liberty.

Proof or speculation?

Oh and then there was the huge American flag flying high (on display at Ft. Meade too btw)

The flag on display is not the one that was flying when the attack commenced.

Funny how gun boats that circled in continuous attack managed to not notice.

Considering that both sides agree that the initial strafing resulted in heavy damage and at least one napalm bomb hit the deck of the Liberty, it isn't surprising that it would be difficult to see much of anything. That speculation is backed up by statements by people on both sides stating that the smoke was incredibly thick and difficult to see through.

Then there was the U2 flight that was recording the whole event, listening to the Israelis argue about whether they should be following the order to sink the vessel.

The transcripts are actually of conversations that took place after the attack.

This was a far different scenario than the Stark, where someone launched a missile at a mistaken blip. This was hours of fly overs with napalm, cannon fire and rockets being used - distances under a mile.

No, it was a single multi-pass strike by jet fighters followed up by a torpedo attack.

It's hard to think gun boats could circle within 100yds, continuously firing upon sailors that were calling out to them in English and maintain that it was a case of mistaken identity.

Have you ever been in a boat? It's hard to hear someone shouting at you from 10 yards away, no less "100 yards" as you claim. The torpedo boats also broke off their attack when they saw the Latin writing on the side of the boat.

There was deadly intent there, which is why all the life boats were themselves machine gunned as soon as they were launched.

Any proof of that accusation?

The surviving sailors were threatened not to speak of it, the ones that spoke up or wrote books about the attack were smeared and maligned as anti-Semites by the Israel-first crowd - even the Jewish sailors who survived!

There is a lot of contradictory evidence presented by those who were on board.

The Israelis knew exactly who and what the ship was, which is why they immediately targeted the ships electronic sensors and dishes.

Again, wild speculation on your part. The first missile attack hit right below the bridge. The Israeli planes, according to them, believed they were attacking a destroyer when they mistakenly identified the parabolic antenna at the front of the boat as a gun.

Funny equipment and emphasis for dealing with an unarmed rusty Egyptian horse carrier, eh?

? It's a war. They sent three fighters and followed up with torpedo boats (which were initially sent into the area to look for a ship that had supposedly been shelling ground forces).


Edit: forgot to provide http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.html

My mistake, it wasn't a U2 - from the link:

"The attack on 'Liberty' was fading into obscurity until last week, when intelligence expert James Bamford came out with Body of Secrets, his latest book about the National Security Agency. In a stunning revelation, Bamford writes that unknown to Israel, a US Navy EC-121 intelligence aircraft was flying high overhead the 'Liberty,' electronically recorded the attack. The US aircraft crew provides evidence that the Israeli pilots knew full well that they were attacking a US Navy ship flying the American flag."

Have you read what the transcripts actually say, or are you parroting what you've been told?
 
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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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Even if there is proof that, "The US aircraft crew provides evidence that the Israeli pilots knew full well that they were attacking a US Navy ship flying the American flag." , what does it mean?

Which is another way to ask, what were the Israeli pilots rules of engagement?

Maybe they were told, there is a ship at such and such a heading and distance, sink it.

Or maybe they were told, there is a ship out there at such a heading and distance, if its flying the flags of countries a,b,c,d, e, f, G,......attack and sink it, if not don't take any action.

My guess is the pilots received the former and not the latter set of instructions. And soldiers are supposed to obey orders without question. So in my mind, any Israeli blame has to lie higher up the chain of command. And since the US and Israeli governments agreed to cover the incident up, I thus I wonder what good it does now to bring the incident up again and again.

But my last comment is, the IDF has seemingly learning nothing in 44 years about over reacting. We saw in in the boarding of the Turkish ship, American girl being shot in the face with a tear gas canisters for the sin of watching a demonstration, and we saw it again when Israeli soldiers shot unarmed protesters at the Golan heights. Its simply become SOP for the IDF, and one day its going to get Israel into really deep doo doo.
As if Israel is not in deep doo doo already over war crimes in Gaza and similar incidents.
Israel may be a sacred cow today, but that does not stop it from becoming sacrificed for tomorrow's lunch menu. Human attitudes can change and change rapidly.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,506
0
76
But my last comment is, the IDF has seemingly learning nothing in 44 years about over reacting. We saw in in the boarding of the Turkish ship,

all of the other ships were peaceful. the ship in question had people ready to riot with knives.

you clearly avoid facts

American girl being shot in the face with a tear gas canisters for the sin of watching a demonstration,

she was part of the demonstration. even if she wasnt, accidents happen. its a warzone

and we saw it again when Israeli soldiers shot unarmed protesters at the Golan heights.

molotov cocktails being thrown on land mines are considered unarmed?

how are the soldiers suppose to know people bum rushing the border arent carryinh suicide vests?


Its simply become SOP for the IDF, and one day its going to get Israel into really deep doo doo.
As if Israel is not in deep doo doo already over war crimes in Gaza and similar incidents.
Israel may be a sacred cow today, but that does not stop it from becoming sacrificed for tomorrow's lunch menu. Human attitudes can change and change rapidly.


you are an idiot
 
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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
you are an idiot
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FGD can call me an idiot or not, but no matter what I do, it won't create international incidents.

But Israel has self created a its own self myths about the pit bulls in the IDF. And Bozo Netanuhu is much like Hitler, who kept advancing the German position after grabbing the Rhineland and Czechoslovakia.

But surprise surprise, Hitler made one new move after saying it was his latest rape was the last, and the whole weight of the international community fell on him.Two years later the full shooting war started despite every Hitler effort to get back in good graces.

As for ole Hitler, he invested much money in a PR org called the German American Bund. And soon had a bunch of American heavyweights dancing to his tune. But the day after Pearl Harbor, that German AIPAC was gone, and I have every confidence Bozo Netanyuhu will do something similar to American attitudes. Bozo Netanyuhu is as delusional as they come and if I were an Israeli, I would fire his ass as a clear and unmitigated danger to Israel.

Now to some extent we are one years into the so called WW2 phony war, and Bozo ain't doing nothing to defuse it.

But hey, I don't expect you to believe me FGD, because you will only believe me after its happens. But by then it will be too late.

At least Hitler had a big coalition, six million pit bull Jews don't amount to more than a desulional Hamster.