44 Trillion Medicare/Social Security Shortfall

[alchemize]

Anyone have access to Fortune.com? I read the article in the hard-copy, it was pretty good. Something both sides of the aisle are ignoring and will continue to ignore. How can any politician piss off the baby boomers and expect to ever get elected?

How much is 44 Trillion? 44,000 billion. To put it in perspective, the war in Iraq would contribute .2% to this.

Last fall Paul O'Neill, then Secretary of the Treasury, wanted a simple answer to a thorny question: How prepared was the nation today to pay all its future bills? Two government experts worked for months to calculate the answer. Their findings, which shocked even them, were never published?the Bush administration made sure of that. The reason for the silence was that by the time the two researchers had completed their study, O'Neill had been thrown out of the Treasury and replaced by the more politically astute John Snow. No savvy administration power player would dare point out, right in the middle of tax-cut season, that there was a huge hole in the country's finances?a $44 trillion hole.

That's the kind of Washington tactic that makes Larry Kotlikoff angry. So angry, in fact, that the normally composed and carefully spoken academic starts ranting about a government conspiracy to keep us all in the dark. He even refers to this particular episode as "the great Treasury cover-up." And once you start Kotlikoff on the subject, it's hard to stop him. "I hate politicians," he says, without pausing for breath. "These people are so...

Link, but requires paid subscription

 

[EagleKeeper]

they are not going to piss off the baby boomers. they just pass the buck on down hill. Every - voters and pols do not want to swallow the bitter pill of taking responsibility

 

[rahvin]

When it comes time and there is no way to pay for it, the benefits WILL be reduced or eliminated. I'm not even counting on recieving it, hope you aren't either.

 

[SuperTool]

http://www.forourgrandchildren.org/site/DocServer/2003-11-24The__4Trillion_Abyss.pdf?docID=1043

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
http://www.forourgrandchildren.org/site/DocServer/2003-11-24The__4Trillion_Abyss.pdf?docID=1043

Yeah - I've read that I'm a member of that "for our grandchildren" group :Q I don't like alot they stand for but I also think their work to make the problem known is good.

Best statement from article:

"Solving this problem will hurt like hell."

CkG

 

[SuperTool]

Ready for your 100% payroll taxhike or 69% income tax hike.
You can guess which will happen. Politicians can't say no to 70M seniors, can't double payroll taxes on working Americans, so you know who is going to be bent over for this.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Ready for your 100% payroll taxhike or 69% income tax hike.
You can guess which will happen. Politicians can't say no to 70M seniors, can't double payroll taxes on working Americans, so you know who is going to be bent over for this.

No one will bend over - both pills are to much to swallow.

Pass the buck and/or bury it with false numbers.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: rahvin
When it comes time and there is no way to pay for it, the benefits WILL be reduced or eliminated. I'm not even counting on recieving it, hope you aren't either.

Absolutely not. I look at SS and Medicare as another form of taxation.

I don't assume for a minute I will have one penny of social security, and that all my healthcare will either come from a) some company I find that has lifetime benefits (haven't done it yet) b) my own funded insurance. I'm 33, they've got 35 years to figure it out, I'm not holding my breath

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Ready for your 100% payroll taxhike or 69% income tax hike.
You can guess which will happen. Politicians can't say no to 70M seniors, can't double payroll taxes on working Americans, so you know who is going to be bent over for this.

No one will bend over - both pills are to much to swallow.

Pass the buck and/or bury it with false numbers.

Eventually someone will have to bend over. You can't bury 44 Trillion debt.
That's why I support Dean now, the only candidate serious about balancing the budget:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_economy_balancingthebudget
A little fiscal discipline now, when we can afford it will save us a lot of pain later when we can't afford it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Soylent Green

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
http://www.forourgrandchildren.org/site/DocServer/2003-11-24The__4Trillion_Abyss.pdf?docID=1043

Thanks ST

I'm thinking it will be handled with a gradual reduction in benefits and an increase in payroll taxes, and more debt of course.

Luckily all those folks are retiring, we'll have a labor shortage and wages will go up to offset that (well, except for wal-mart, where all the retirees and the huddled masses and programmers will work)

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Ready for your 100% payroll taxhike or 69% income tax hike.
You can guess which will happen. Politicians can't say no to 70M seniors, can't double payroll taxes on working Americans, so you know who is going to be bent over for this.

No one will bend over - both pills are to much to swallow.

Pass the buck and/or bury it with false numbers.

Eventually someone will have to bend over. You can't bury 44 Trillion debt.
That's why I support Dean now, the only candidate serious about balancing the budget:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_economy_balancingthebudget
A little fiscal discipline now, when we can afford it will save us a lot of pain later when we can't afford it.

Actually this continued overspending issue is exactly why I don't support Dean. He is of the mind that the gov't should provide "entitlements" and wants to add yet another one to the list in the form of UHC. Now I expect someont to yap about Bush's Medicare entitlement...but remember this befor you open your mouth - people that opposed this were saying it wasn't big enough! ALL politicians get bad marks on spending, but when I hear things like "XXX program is off the table" - I don't think they really have everyone's best interest in mind, and sure as hell aren't serious about making the tough choices that will eventually need to be made.

I'm all for taking the hit now instead of later...if we have to raise taxes to pay for a scrubbed, refined, and lean gov't - so be it, but I won't support any tax increases until I see a mindset change and some REAL gov't spending reform taking place.

CkG

 

[ReiAyanami]

finally liberal programs pay off, imagine how many cold wars you could buy with that

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
finally liberal programs pay off, imagine how many cold wars you could buy with that

Liberal programs? Bush has expanded medicare. I guess he's a liberal.
What's "paying off" is Republican never ending deficit policies that leave us with enormous debt.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
finally liberal programs pay off, imagine how many cold wars you could buy with that

Liberal programs? Bush has expanded medicare. I guess he's a liberal.
What's "paying off" is Republican never ending deficit policies that leave us with enormous debt.

See CAD's quote. He spent less than the democrats wanted to. The democrats don't have a solution either. This goes way past party lines. Although liberals basically implemented SS & Medicare, now it is the never-dying beast that both parties are feeding. SS & Medicare are entitlements, liberal programs. Conservative programs would be privatized versions of those.

Complaining about spending on the war in Iraq or the Medicare bill is like saying "you shouldn't have bought that big screen TV" when you have a fully mortgaged 50 room mansion.

 

[LunarRay]

We can start over. Default on everything and simply start over. Close our markets and Isolate. Pay all our current expenses out of current income. Debt incurring actions could be paid by use.. like toll roads etc.. fixed assets. Develop our industry and its service sector. Establish minimum wage by class. Exploit our natural resources and just start over. Create a modified Capitalistic model.
We can do it in a planned and orderly manner or when the poop finally hits the fan. It will hit the fan someday.
Us baby boomer's would rather it be now then when our grand kids or great grand kids come of age.. if it is to happen then let it happen now! On our watch this insanity has been allowed to flourish so on our watch it must be ended!

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
finally liberal programs pay off, imagine how many cold wars you could buy with that

Liberal programs? Bush has expanded medicare. I guess he's a liberal.
What's "paying off" is Republican never ending deficit policies that leave us with enormous debt.

See CAD's quote. He spent less than the democrats wanted to. The democrats don't have a solution either. This goes way past party lines. Although liberals basically implemented SS & Medicare, now it is the never-dying beast that both parties are feeding. SS & Medicare are entitlements, liberal programs. Conservative programs would be privatized versions of those.

Complaining about spending on the war in Iraq or the Medicare bill is like saying "you shouldn't have bought that big screen TV" when you have a fully mortgaged 50 room mansion.

It doesn't matter what the democrats want to spend. The reality is that Bush with GOP congress will spend more than a democrat president with GOP congress.
Things get out of control when one party rushes spending bills through without checks and balances or even time to read them. Divided government is the only government that works for this country.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
finally liberal programs pay off, imagine how many cold wars you could buy with that

Liberal programs? Bush has expanded medicare. I guess he's a liberal.
What's "paying off" is Republican never ending deficit policies that leave us with enormous debt.

See CAD's quote. He spent less than the democrats wanted to. The democrats don't have a solution either. This goes way past party lines. Although liberals basically implemented SS & Medicare, now it is the never-dying beast that both parties are feeding. SS & Medicare are entitlements, liberal programs. Conservative programs would be privatized versions of those.

Complaining about spending on the war in Iraq or the Medicare bill is like saying "you shouldn't have bought that big screen TV" when you have a fully mortgaged 50 room mansion.

It doesn't matter what the democrats want to spend. The reality is that Bush with GOP congress will spend more than a democrat president with GOP congress.
Things get out of control when one party rushes spending bills through without checks and balances or even time to read them. Divided government is the only government that works for this country.

You may have a point there. Gridlock is a good thing I vote for GOP commander in chief, democrat controlled congress.

You aren't going to tell me that a Democratic Congress and a Democratic Pres is going to spend less, are you?