41% of Republicans still doubt Obama was born in the US

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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,205
10,865
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That's not what I'm referring to.

HI's types of BC's are what I'm referring to.

They are along these lines (they've changed slightly over the years)

1) One issued by a physician or midwife that attended to the birth.
2) One issued by the state if the child is less than one year old and by word of mouth testimony from an adult.
3) Same as 2 except the child is more than one year old and has an endorsement from the Lieutenant Governor.
4) One issued by the state if the child is born outside of the state or country, but the parents can claim Hawaii as their legal residence for more than one year prior to the child's birth.

That's what drives the birthers IMO.

Fern

When I recently applied for a passport (approx. 2 years ago) I presented them with the original hospital birth certificate from the Columbia Hospital for Women in DC and they (post office) said that was not an official birth certificate (which it absolutely was or used to be) and I had to get a certified copy of one from the District of Columbia. So much for originals. Which "original" will you recognize?
 

L00PY

Golden Member
Sep 14, 2001
1,101
0
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That's not what I'm referring to.

HI's types of BC's are what I'm referring to.

They are along these lines (they've changed slightly over the years)

1) One issued by a physician or midwife that attended to the birth.
2) One issued by the state if the child is less than one year old and by word of mouth testimony from an adult.
3) Same as 2 except the child is more than one year old and has an endorsement from the Lieutenant Governor.
4) One issued by the state if the child is born outside of the state or country, but the parents can claim Hawaii as their legal residence for more than one year prior to the child's birth.
Type 1 always existed.
Types 2-4 were entered Hawaii's laws in 80s if I'm not mistaken. In particular, the law for children born out of state was written in 1982. Obama was born before then.

Furthermore, type 4 would still give the location of birth. In the Obama birth certificate it clearly lists the location of the birth as on US soil.

I fail to see how any of this has any relevance to Obama.
 

ModerateRepZero

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2006
1,572
5
81
To those who argue Obama shouldn't show his actual BC because conspiracy nuts still won't believe it:

- We have threads like this, "OMG! Look how many people think Obama was born in kenya", that keep demonstrating how wide-spread the doubt is. There are not that many 'conspiracy nuts' in the USA. IMO, the percentage of those who doubt or don't believe etc is too high to be blamed on that. Everyone of you who criticize the doubters, everyone, ignores the issue of HI's odd and unique BC rules. Instead you continue to mention only those who claim forgery etc. Yes, no matter what Obama releases some portion will continue to doubt, but I suspect it will be much much smaller.

- At some point I have to wonder if the political advisors will become concerned. The number of non-believers and/or doubters among the independants alone should be cause for concern. If that non-belief or doubt influences them to not vote for Obama he cannot be relected.

This story will not go away by him just ignoring it. It was on the front page of one of those grocery story check-out rags just a week or so ago. Why then I have no idea (slow gossip week?), but wait till election time rolls around again, they'll be beating the crap out of this story. I don't see how that's good politically.

Fern

The birthers can try to make an issue all they want. All Obama and his supporters have to do is point out how far they went in reasonably disclosing the information and point out the absurdity of a conspiracy involving a man no one could've reasonably predicted would be president back in the 50s. They don't have to do anything to appease conspiracy theorists.

It's not much different than someone insisting that there's a govt. cover-up of aliens landing in Roswell even if someone based in Roswell who's privy and has access to any such information says that there isn't...or lunatics insisting that Obama is a Muslim. At some point, it's counterproductive and useless to appease fanatics who aren't satisfied.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
The birthers can try to make an issue all they want. All Obama and his supporters have to do is point out how far they went in reasonably disclosing the information and point out the absurdity of a conspiracy involving a man no one could've reasonably predicted would be president back in the 50s. They don't have to do anything to appease conspiracy theorists.

It's not much different than someone insisting that there's a govt. cover-up of aliens landing in Roswell even if someone based in Roswell who's privy and has access to any such information says that there isn't...or lunatics insisting that Obama is a Muslim. At some point, it's counterproductive and useless to appease fanatics who aren't satisfied.

Ever read Catch-22? Birthers and other rightwing conspiracy zealots employ it all the time. By definition, they'll never be satisfied- there's always a catch. It's something they create in their own minds, regardless of the facts before them. Their arguments are ontological, merely supporting something they believe in the first place, independent of any evidence at all...

they use reason the way a drunk uses lampposts- for support rather than illumination...
 

ModerateRepZero

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2006
1,572
5
81
Ever read Catch-22? Birthers and other rightwing conspiracy zealots employ it all the time. By definition, they'll never be satisfied- there's always a catch. It's something they create in their own minds, regardless of the facts before them. Their arguments are ontological, merely supporting something they believe in the first place, independent of any evidence at all...

they use reason the way a drunk uses lampposts- for support rather than illumination...

Slightly off-topic: Orly Taitz was fined $20,000 by a judge for intemperate remarks, appealed to the US Supreme Court, was first denied by Thomas (and reportedly appealed to Roberts as to the validity of either the signature, or the lack of notice given), and filed an appeal to Alito for the whole Court to hear, which denied her motion and left her with no choice but to pay the fine or suffer a lien.

Some people don't give up......or learn
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,231
6,338
126
The right wing anti-Christ folk have got to get used to the fact that the Messiah can be born anyplace he wants to and prove he was born any place else. He is the commander and chief of time and space among other things.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
The right wing anti-Christ folk have got to get used to the fact that the Messiah can be born anyplace he wants to and prove he was born any place else. He is the commander and chief of time and space among other things.

I believe that like Abraham Lincoln he was born in a log cabin that he built with his own hands. And I strongly suspect that Armageddon will be a battle between he and Chuck Norris.

The amusing thing about all this is that McCain was definitely born outside the United States, so even if these people managed to prove their allegation the same rules would have to apply to both.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
It's concerning that the topic of the thread is how outrageous it is that 41% of one of the two main parties holds this radical, wrong, ignorant opinion, but many of the posters instead discuss whether that opinion is correct or are sympathetic to the people who have that opinion, defending them.

Back to the thread topic, it is outrageous for so many to be so irresponsible. How can we have reasonable opinions on important issues fro such people?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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The whole thing really is pretty shameful. Righties employ it as an attempt to delegitimize Obama's victory at the polls in 2008, as an attempt to save face, bolster their own self image.

We're the majority! We the people! Take back our country!

It's like losing an athletic contest, then claiming your opponent wasn't even qualified to enter as justification for losing... dragging out the entry forms, pointing out that there might be an *i* not dotted, questioning the authority of the judges, bringing in your own handwriting experts and then speculating as to the nefarious purposes for that deliberate obfuscation.

It's a plot! A Commie fascist pinko mooslim gay marriage gun grabbing appeaser terrarist coddling anti-merricuhn plot to defile white women, make baby jesus cry and pollute our precious bodily fluids!

Did I miss anything? Maybe I should have put in something about welfare queens, values, free markets, crushed by taxes, law and order, Willie Horton, teh ebil Saddam, WMD's, and our moral right to spread Free! Freedom! and Liberty! at gunpoint but I couldn't fit it into a single sentence...
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,231
6,338
126
I believe that like Abraham Lincoln he was born in a log cabin that he built with his own hands. And I strongly suspect that Armageddon will be a battle between he and Chuck Norris.

The amusing thing about all this is that McCain was definitely born outside the United States, so even if these people managed to prove their allegation the same rules would have to apply to both.

Actually, I think the issues are different. A person born overseas to American citizens of, is it 18 years of age, are American citizens even if born in Panama. The issue with Obama, I believe, is that his Mom wasn't 18 and his Father wasn't an American citizen so he wouldn't be a citizen if he were born in Kenya. But I don't give a shit where he was born. I don't actually know where I was born either, because I don't remember, but I have what Obama has, a Hawaiian birth certificate. I do know that he spent most of his life here, as I have, and that he is more of an American than I will ever be because he's a lawyer and constitutional scholar and knows more about US law and history than I probably ever will. He don't need no fucking proof beyond the state of Hawaii saying he's a citizen to govern me.

Imagine your Mom taking you aside and telling you you were born on Sweden, would you still be American or Swedish?
 
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L00PY

Golden Member
Sep 14, 2001
1,101
0
0
Actually, I think the issues are different. A person born overseas to American citizens of, is it 18 years of age, are American citizens even if born in Panama. The issue with Obama, I believe, is that his Mom wasn't 18 and his Father wasn't an American citizen so he wouldn't be a citizen if he were born in Kenya. But I don't give a shit where he was born. I don't actually know where I was born either, because I don't remember, but I have what Obama has, a Hawaiian birth certificate. I do know that he spent most of his life here, as I have, and that he is more of an American than I will ever be because he's a lawyer and constitutional scholar and knows more about US law and history than I probably ever will. He don't need no fucking proof beyond the state of Hawaii saying he's a citizen to govern me.
Actually, those are the same issues. While McCain is definitely a US Citizen, it's quite arguable that he fails to fulfill the Constitutional requirement of being a natural born US citizen. Unfortunately the legal definition of that phrase hasn't been decided upon. Since he was born on foreign soil, outside of sovereign U.S. territory, McCain may be ineligible to be president.

With Obama, he was clearly born on US soil so that's not an issue. Hypothetically speaking, even if he were born in Kenya he'd probably still be a US citizen by birth. The law at the time of his birth made him a citizen because his mom was a US citizen when he was born, she lived in the US for more than ten years before he was born, and she lived in the US until her 20s. She was 18 when she gave birth to Obama. The only question would be if you can deny citizenship to people whose mothers' were under 19 years old.

The key here is that the law regarding citizenship depends on when you were born.

Regardless of the wording of the law, being born on US soil makes Obama a natural born citizen and eligible to be president. It's when someone isn't born on US soil that that particular issue of that constitutional requirements will arise.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
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Actually, those are the same issues. While McCain is definitely a US Citizen, it's quite arguable that he fails to fulfill the Constitutional requirement of being a natural born US citizen. Unfortunately the legal definition of that phrase hasn't been decided upon. Since he was born on foreign soil, outside of sovereign U.S. territory, McCain may be ineligible to be president...
Early in the presidential campaign when this question first surfaced two Democratic Senators introduced a bill to clarify that Senator McCain was, in the opinion of the Senate, a natural-born citizen eligible for the Presidency.

I find it revealing that despite the overwhelming evidence supporting Mr. Obama's birth and citizenship, we still have Republicans unwilling to take a similar stand.
It appears that the Grand Opposition Party feels it cannot afford to alienate even the most mentally challenged of its supporters.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,231
6,338
126
Birthers are desperate to deny legitimacy to the Obama presidency, even if they have to fool themselves to accomplish that in their own heads. Denial is a defense mechanism, something Repubs are increasingly turning to, because there's not much else left for 'em to use to maintain the Faith...

It's not their faith they are in denial about but the nature of their faith and the fact that it makes them filthy assholes which they are because that's how they feel and what creates their faith. Nobody wants to have to admit to themselves they are worthless shit because it's the message we've been getting since we were born.

It's catch 22. You feel worthless and it is a lie but you deny that's how you feel so you stay that way. We are not worthless but feeling worthless makes us act that way. It's having a chip on your shoulder or having a sore toe you make sure other people can't help but step on.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,231
6,338
126
Early in the presidential campaign when this question first surfaced two Democratic Senators introduced a bill to clarify that Senator McCain was, in the opinion of the Senate, a natural-born citizen eligible for the Presidency.

I find it revealing that despite the overwhelming evidence supporting Mr. Obama's birth and citizenship, we still have Republicans unwilling to take a similar stand.
It appears that the Grand Opposition Party feels it cannot afford to alienate even the most mentally challenged of its supporters.

They are a party majority so of course not. The rich collect the sick and manipulate them with their sickness to fuck themselves in the ass while voting tax cuts for rich people. All these morons don't collect in one place by accident.
 

ModerateRepZero

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2006
1,572
5
81
nytimes article about the Hawaiian governor considering making public more evidence of Obama's birth.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/25/us/25hawaii.html?hp

frankly, as I've already said, you can't appease the hardcore conspiracy theorists, as they can always whine, "well we didn't seeeeeeeeeee it, so someone COULD HAVE doctored/faked it!!!!". Actually, I take it back, they could have been there and said it was a Hollywood production...*snort*.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
nytimes article about the Hawaiian governor considering making public more evidence of Obama's birth.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/25/us/25hawaii.html?hp

frankly, as I've already said, you can't appease the hardcore conspiracy theorists, as they can always whine, "well we didn't seeeeeeeeeee it, so someone COULD HAVE doctored/faked it!!!!". Actually, I take it back, they could have been there and said it was a Hollywood production...*snort*.

You're right, of course. Righties believe in things convenient to their purposes, to their strongest inner beliefs, outside the rules of reason.

When they lose, it's must be because they were cheated, not because adherence to their ideology (AKA the Bush presidency) resulted in the greatest economic downturn since 1930, two seemingly endless occupations, enormous debt and the greatest disparity of income distribution since the 1920's. None of that matters, because they just know they've been oh so right all along.
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
1
81
People are still talking about this? Things like this prove that people really don't care about the country- they only care about their small-minded politics.
 

ChaiBabbaChai

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
I can open your eyes to the light, but I am afraid your blueblockers of self-hate will prevent you from seeing the truth. Unfortunately I think you are destined to wallow in the guilt of the ignorant.

Dude, do you even think you make sense TO YOURSELF? Forget trying to make sense to other people. Work on your self-checking logic failure first, then move on.

You are just trying to strong-arm this dude into believing he hates himself when he doesn't. Dumbass.

41% of Republicans is pretty good for what I thought the percentage of uninformed morons was in their party. I still think the number is off and I live in a smart, educated, high-cost area of the nation.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Does this article have any relation with the topic 40% of the Americans believing in Earth is 10,000 years old

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2129092

Well, yeh. It's also integrated with their faith in trickledown economics and the belief that we actually found WMD's in Iraq, or that they were moved to the Bekaa valley by Spetsnaz. That Obama bailed out the banks. Death Panels. More than enough jobs to go around. And a lot of other propaganda deliberately planted in their consciousnesses propaganda that dovetails perfectly with what they want to believe.