4/3rds is a failure

micrometers

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Nov 14, 2010
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I have a 4/3rds camera FWIW.

Basically, 4/3rds has not resulted in a significant size difference. The E520 is about the same size as a comparable Canon camera. At the same time it has a noticeable low light penalty. Lastly, the Nikon N1 which has a sensor half the size of the 4/3rds has a comparable image quality as the latest Olympus Pens.
 

Gooberlx2

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May 4, 2001
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I thought a big point of 4/3s was to have a universal standard for interchangeable lenses between different body makers and whatnot. Also means that third party lens makers only have to concentrate on one standard and mount for several different brands. (and by several, I mean two...'cause it really only looks like Panasonic and Olympus are in the 4/3s game).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Thirds_system#Four_Thirds_system_lenses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Four_Thirds_system#Micro_Four_Thirds_lenses

I agree, I'm not sold on 4/3s compared to other offerings, but I'm sure there are plenty of people plenty happy with their cameras.
 
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corkyg

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Basically an Olympus idea. Picked up by Leica and Panasonic. That's about as far as it went.
 

Munky

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Lol, no argument there. But micro 4/3 is anything but a failure, which probably would not have existed without 4/3.
 

Gooberlx2

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Lol, no argument there. But micro 4/3 is anything but a failure, which probably would not have existed without 4/3.

Yep, exact same sensor, minus mirror box. And so started the MILC craze with the first Olympus e-PEN (moreso than the lumix g1 or gh1, imo).
 
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Gintaras

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Dec 28, 2000
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Failure? Most likely, a failure in those, who do hold a camera and pretend to be a photographer.

Photo take with above mentioned Olympus E-520 has won 2009 NY Press Association 1st Place Award for Spot News:

108181606.jpg


Where were all the cannikons on that spot?

All cameras are about the same...failure can be a individual holding a camera and not knowing what to do with....THAT'S A FAILURE...
 

Munky

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Feb 5, 2005
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but even then...the Sony NEX series has blown the Pen series out the water.

How so? Are you saying that the Sony NEX outsells all the m4/3 systems combined? If you're talking high ISO IQ, then obviously a bigger sensor wins, but then their lenses are also bigger and heavier. I don't care how small they make the body, once you attach the lenses, Sony's claim to "smallest whatever" doesn't hold any water.
 

JohnnyRebel

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Feb 7, 2011
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Failure? Most likely, a failure in those, who do hold a camera and pretend to be a photographer.

Photo take with above mentioned Olympus E-520 has won 2009 NY Press Association 1st Place Award for Spot News:

108181606.jpg


Where were all the cannikons on that spot?

All cameras are about the same...failure can be a individual holding a camera and not knowing what to do with....THAT'S A FAILURE...

The Best Camera is the one you have with you when you need it. I'll bet Spot News photo awards rarely go to a photo shot with a DSLR. Good chance next year it'll be an iPhone.

JR
 

blastingcap

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Sep 16, 2010
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but even then...the Sony NEX series has blown the Pen series out the water.

The older Pens are kinda meh, as they get Panasonic's leftover 12MP sensors. But the Panasonic 16MP m43 sensors aren't that far behind the entry level CaNikon DSLRs. Only when you step up to the Sony 16MP/24MP APS-C sensors (like the Nikon D5100/7000, NEX-5N, NEX-7) do you get a meaningful difference, and even then, only when you print very big prints and squint at them from close range.

And who even prints anymore? A HD screen is 1080p, or about 2 megapixels. Even a 4K screen is what, ~8.3MP and that's half the resolution that a top-end m43 sensor gives you. (And don't give me that "more MP lets me crop more" excuse, you should frame it right in the first place, plus cropping doesn't solve perspective distortion problems.)

Basically, m43's 16MP sensor is about where APS-C DSLRs were 4-5 years ago in image quality. That was already more than most people needed back then, yet all of a sudden it's not good enough? Even though many people never view their photos at more than 16x20" anyway, let alone 1080p? Whatever.

The failure of APS-C mirrorless is that lenses must be made bigger and overall they will always be bigger and heavier than m43 lenses because of the need to cover a larger sensor area. You will ALWAYS have larger/size weight if you go with a larger sensor, all else equal.

Conversely, sensors keep getting better, and m43 sensors 5 years from now will be roughly where APS-C sensors are today, if trends continue. So you get to have your cake and eat it, too: great small and light lenses with sensors that are already "good enough" and will only get better over time. Plus a potential price savings due to less materials costs for sensor and lenses.

==================

Bottom line:

m43 = balanced lens and body size, with sensors that are already as good as DSLRs of 4-5 years ago and will only get better.

APS-C = already overkill for many home users, will be even more overkill as time goes on, bigger size and weight of lenses. If we assume that m43 will soon give "good enough" image quality if it doesn't already, then the ONLY advantage APS-C has over m43 is DoF control. So you get to choose between somewhat better DoF control vs. size/weight/balance.

After seeing what 45/1.8 and 25/1.4 lenses can do on m43 (good DoF control and bokeh), I'm happy to give up a little DoF control in favor of size/weight/balance advantages of small m43 bodies paired with small lenses. A little NEX body with a huge lens is just nasty to balance and heavier/larger than m43, to the point where I'd rather just skip NEX and wait for a Nikon F-mount mirrorless so I can continue using my existing Nikon glass. Especially since NEX lens selection sucks and will continue to suck for quite a while. (Note that many of the rabid NEX fans use legacy glass via adapter, not the pitiful selection of native E-mount lenses. And focus peaking is indeed sweet. However, Panasonic has already implemented focus peaking on its upcoming camcorders, and it is only a matter of time before software stuff like that filters down to the cameras as well, perhaps via a firmware update.)

Imho, Nikon 1 went a little too far in shrinking sensors, though, as there is not much depth of field control compared to FX, DX/APS-C, or even m43. m43 is the smallest I'd go if you want decent DoF control. Just imho. Nice PDAF though.
 
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micrometers

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Yes, on second look, while the Sony NEX series is impressive, the lenses are gargantuan compared to M43. And M43 is where Olympus really does look to be reaping the benefits of its sensor shrink.

I'm talking though more about the Evolt series. Which now that I consider it, isn't appreciably smaller than APS-C cameras from Nikon or Canon.
 

blastingcap

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Sep 16, 2010
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Yes, on second look, while the Sony NEX series is impressive, the lenses are gargantuan compared to M43. And M43 is where Olympus really does look to be reaping the benefits of its sensor shrink.

I'm talking though more about the Evolt series. Which now that I consider it, isn't appreciably smaller than APS-C cameras from Nikon or Canon.

I agree on the non-micro43 being a failure. The camera and lens combination wasn't small enough relative to DSLRs. NEX/NX apparently didn't get that memo, and it's a bad joke for Sony to brag about their tiny camera bodies when their lenses are so much bigger than their bodies; and so much bigger than Nikon 1 and m43 bodies and lenses.

Nikon 1 despite the smaller sensor, has lenses that aren't much smaller or lighter than m43. And the cost is HIGHER for Nikon 1, along with less DoF control. However, their ace is phase-detect autofocus (PDAF), and I recommend Nikon 1 for those who want much-smaller-than-DSLR cameras that nevertheless are good for fast-moving objects.

But that PDAF ace will not last forever, as computer chips keep getting tinier and more powerful. Single-shot CDAF is *already* faster on m43 than most DSLRs. And at some point CDAF will catch up to PDAF for sports or tracking moving objects. Plus there is nothing preventing other mirrorless cameras from stealing Nikon 1's idea and implanting PDAF into the sensor as well.
 

ElFenix

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Mar 20, 2000
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I agree on the non-micro43 being a failure. The camera and lens combination wasn't small enough relative to DSLRs. NEX/NX apparently didn't get that memo, and it's a bad joke for Sony to brag about their tiny camera bodies when their lenses are so much bigger than their bodies; and so much bigger than Nikon 1 and m43 bodies and lenses.

Nikon 1 despite the smaller sensor, has lenses that aren't much smaller or lighter than m43. And the cost is HIGHER for Nikon 1, along with less DoF control. However, their ace is phase-detect autofocus (PDAF), and I recommend Nikon 1 for those who want much-smaller-than-DSLR cameras that nevertheless are good for fast-moving objects.

But that PDAF ace will not last forever, as computer chips keep getting tinier and more powerful. Single-shot CDAF is *already* faster on m43 than most DSLRs. And at some point CDAF will catch up to PDAF for sports or tracking moving objects. Plus there is nothing preventing other mirrorless cameras from stealing Nikon 1's idea and implanting PDAF into the sensor as well.

nikon lifted it from fuji in the first place.