3dmark05 rigged to favor nvidia?

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LifeStealer

Senior member
Sep 22, 2004
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Originally posted by: Czar
friend of mine pointed this out

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/...rder=asc&start=100

http://www.hexus.net/content/r...04NzgmdXJsX3BhZ2U9Nw==

Seems that 3dmark uses a feature that is not a part of directx and is only available on nvidia cards, and enabling this feature gives nvidia a boost of 10-16% and actualy sacrifices image quality
Click to expand...

Been there before..

Honestly I think 3dMark should no longer be used to benchmark or do what most of the better review sites do and use 01 just for comparison and newer programs for the newer features.. Programs that don't have anyone interest at heart.
 
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Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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I hope that anand disables this nvidia only feature in his benches, since its actualy an option and thats a good thing :)
 
Zebo

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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How can you say it's favor when Nvidia needs to use two of thier highest end cards to hit 7229 but Ati can hit 7080 with one card?
 
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Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
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the performance isnt really the issue its that it is optimised to give nvidia cards a boost and not to give ati cards a boost and does so by going outside of the dx9 frame
 
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LifeStealer

Senior member
Sep 22, 2004
706
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Like I said, its done it before so its no big suprise. At least this time they didn't hide it under a pile of code.
 
Zebo

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Originally posted by: Czar
the performance isnt really the issue its that it is optimised to give nvidia cards a boost and not to give ati cards a boost and does so by going outside of the dx9 frame
Click to expand...

Certainly appears so.
 
Schadenfroh

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
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Originally posted by: Zebo
How can you say it's favor when Nvidia needs to use two of thier highest end cards to hit 7229 but Ati can hit 7080 with one card?
Click to expand...

my bet is that it is cpu limited once you stick those 2 cards on there, i bet with a more powerfull proccessor the distance would increase.
 
Elcs

Elcs

Diamond Member
Apr 27, 2002
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Easily testable i suppose. Apart from 2 cards cost more than most peoples PC's (exaggeration perhaps but you know where im coming from)
 
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Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,938
6
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Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Czar
the performance isnt really the issue its that it is optimised to give nvidia cards a boost and not to give ati cards a boost and does so by going outside of the dx9 frame
Click to expand...

Certainly appears so.
Click to expand...

Even that is not the full issue.
The bigger issue is that Futuremark did NOT include 3Dc extensions BECAUSE they were not part of the DX9 spec, and that was the reason, but then included nVidia specific optimisations that are not part of the DX9 spec either, and those extensions lower image quality (according to Hexus.net's article) but increase speed.
 
F

FishTankX

Platinum Member
Oct 6, 2001
2,738
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Also I don't think the stock clocks are 645/605. A 20% overclock is nothing to sneeze at.
 
D

dmw16

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2000
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Survey Says....Who Cares!?!

This was done last time, I dont think anyone expect anything different. It has been established that 3dmark isnt a great benchmark anyway. I really think that HardOCP has the right idea w/ benchmarks.
 
ViRGE

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
It's worth noting that Nvidia's feature may not be part of the DX9 spec, but it is used by games, most notably Doom 3(listed as Nvidia_shaadow_acceleration, or something like that).
 
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Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
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Originally posted by: ViRGE
It's worth noting that Nvidia's feature may not be part of the DX9 spec, but it is used by games, most notably Doom 3(listed as Nvidia_shaadow_acceleration, or something like that).
Click to expand...

true but doom3=opengl while 3dmark05=directx9+nvidiastuff
 
ViRGE

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: ViRGE
It's worth noting that Nvidia's feature may not be part of the DX9 spec, but it is used by games, most notably Doom 3(listed as Nvidia_shaadow_acceleration, or something like that).
Click to expand...

true but doom3=opengl while 3dmark05=directx9+nvidiastuff
Click to expand...
Yea, but the API isn't really important, 3DMark would still be just as useful if it were OpenGL. That said, I'm glad they did put it in, since now we have a very concrete example of the technology, and its IQ/performance effects.
 
C

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: ViRGE
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: ViRGE
It's worth noting that Nvidia's feature may not be part of the DX9 spec, but it is used by games, most notably Doom 3(listed as Nvidia_shaadow_acceleration, or something like that).
Click to expand...

true but doom3=opengl while 3dmark05=directx9+nvidiastuff
Click to expand...
Yea, but the API isn't really important, 3DMark would still be just as useful if it were OpenGL. That said, I'm glad they did put it in, since now we have a very concrete example of the technology, and its IQ/performance effects.
Click to expand...

3dmark has always been a directx benchmark from the first version to this version and they say so themselves that it is a directx9 benchramk. Dx9 is the arena and they give nvidia a bigger club
 
flexy

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
So...ONE card has an option the other cars has NOT.

Game/Benchmark USES this option and gets beter FPS ---> people scream MURDER :)


This is the most ridiculous thing i ever heard.

Of course, developers in a perfect world WILL use (even specific) features available on a certain card - and there's NOTHING to say against it. IMHO they should use ALL and ANY features as long as it improves performance and image quality :)

Benchmarking, DirectX standard:

This DST 'feature' is not in the directx standard - ehrm, ok...neither is 3dc....nor does the current ATI h/w supprt full SM3.0 compatibility.

If one game-engine (and even benchmark, for that matter) utilizes these features..i think its GOOD.

The question is NOT really whether how card X performs compared to card Y UNDER THE EXACT SAME CIRCUMSTANCES - because the cards ARE different BY DESIGN already.
An ATI card does not do EXACTLY what an NV card does (on hardware level). ..its different chip-designs and different driver code.

Seeing people 'complaining' about unfairness because one's card feature is used is ridiculous. If ONE card would achieve what ANIOTHER card does - but 10x faster because it has features the other card does NOT have - well blame the game-engine developers for using these features ???????? Come on :) Get real...
 
O

OMGoddess

Banned
Jun 25, 2004
714
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Wouldn't this mean that the Nvidia card is better? Because it has a function that it uses in games that would make it faster, isn't that what what everybody wants?
 
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