$39 Pentium G3470 3.6GHz vs. $280 i7-4790 3.6GHz...

[waltchan]

Between these two processors only, Pentium G3470 and i7-4790, do they both have identical single-thread performance speed at 3.6GHz? I already sold three i7-4790s already for $280 shipped each out from new Acer PCs, and replaced all of them with Pentium G3470, which sells for $39 occasionally at Fry's Electronics. I think it's the biggest pricing scam I've seen by Intel, and i7-4790 isn't 7.5 times faster given the price point.

 

[XavierMace]

I think it's the biggest pricing scam I've seen by Intel, and i7-4790 isn't 7.5 times faster given the price point.

Because that's totally how that works.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Between these two processors only, Pentium G3470 and i7-4790, do they both have identical single-thread performance speed at 3.6GHz? I already sold three i7-4790s already for $280 shipped each out from new Acer PCs, and replaced all of them with Pentium G3470, which sells for $39 occasionally at Fry's Electronics. I think it's the biggest pricing scam I've seen by Intel, and i7-4790 isn't 7.5 times faster given the price point.

Other than cache issues, yes, they should have the same ST speed. They won't have AVX/AVX2 though.

I run my Skylake G4400 (3.3Ghz, @ 4.455Ghz), and at that speed, it outruns an i7-6700 in ST, as far as I can tell. (Using CPU-Z 1.75 benchmark.)

Edit: Although, my i3-6100 with SATA6G SSD (Silicon Power 240GB, with SMI controller and MLC NAND) is nearly as fast. I can hardly notice the difference, when I'm not crunching on more than two threads. (In comparison to my G4400, crunching 100% on both CPU cores, and the GPU, all at the same time, and it's still faster.)

 

[frozentundra123456]

Between these two processors only, Pentium G3470 and i7-4790, do they both have identical single-thread performance speed at 3.6GHz? I already sold three i7-4790s already for $280 shipped each out from new Acer PCs, and replaced all of them with Pentium G3470, which sells for $39 occasionally at Fry's Electronics. I think it's the biggest pricing scam I've seen by Intel, and i7-4790 isn't 7.5 times faster given the price point.

Is a 200,000 dollar Ferrari 10 times as fast as a 20,000 dollar Honda accord? Performance and price very rarely if ever scale linearly, and top of the line performance comes at a price premium.

Not to mention according to your reasoning, you should be selling the 4790 for 40 dollars, or at most a hundred dollars, since in multithreaded it is probably about 2.5 times as fast as the pentium. So looks to me like you are making big profit just like intel.

 

[nitromullet]

I think the take away here is to buy the proper processor for your needs. If you can do what you want to do with a $39 cpu then there is no reason to buy anything more. If you need more performance than what a $39 cpu will provide there are options available.

 

[MongGrel]

The big question in my mind is what are you doing with the Acers after you sell the I-7s out of them and stick a $39 chip in there ?

Reselling a single thread computer as a multi ?

Just thought I'd ask.

 

[waltchan]

The big question in my mind is what are you doing with the Acers after you sell the I-7s out of them and stick a $39 chip in there ?

Reselling a single thread computer as a multi ?

Just thought I'd ask.

I bought the Acers (ATC-705-UC52) because Costco stores are clearancing them out for $449.99 right now, plus it has 12GB RAM, which I'm selling all the 8GB sticks for $38 each. I figure it's cheaper to buy this and install Celeron or Pentium by myself, and keep the 4GB in it plus find a 2GB stick to make it 6GB, instead of buying refurbished or new with i3 installed for same price.

I still have one more to pick up from Costco tomorrow. Need 4 units total, it turns out. Started out at 2 first. Selling the i7-4790 processor again for $285 shipped on eBay.

One unit I removed out the whole Acer LGA1150 board, and replaced it with a new Acer's last LGA1155 board built in 2013, and put in a Celeron G470 processor. Like the new 2016 case look powered by G470 inside, Windows 10, and low cost/power.

 

[Yuriman]

Actually, an i7 probably IS in the range of 7.5x faster in specific benchmarks, if you include AVX2 and hyperthreading.

In TrueCrypt, the Pentium scores around 0.3GB/s, while the i7 is around 4.7GB/s, so ~16x faster here.

In 3D particle movement, the Pentium scores around 170-180, while the i7 scores closer to 800. So, ~4x and some change... which isn't 7.5x, but it's significant. I'm sure I could dig around and find more, but an i7 doesn't need to be 7.5x faster because it isn't 7.5x more expensive, when looking at the total cost of a system. For instance, un a system whose other components cost in the range of $500, moving to an i7 is less than 50% more expensive.

 

[PG]

I bought the Acers (ATC-705-UC52) because Costco stores are clearancing them out for $449.99 right now, plus it has 12GB RAM, which I'm selling all the 8GB sticks for $38 each. I figure it's cheaper to buy this and install Celeron or Pentium by myself, and keep the 4GB in it plus find a 2GB stick to make it 6GB, instead of buying refurbished or new with i3 installed for same price.

I still have one more to pick up from Costco tomorrow. Need 4 units total, it turns out. Started out at 2 first. Selling the i7-4790 processor again for $285 shipped on eBay.

One unit I removed out the whole Acer LGA1150 board, and replaced it with a new Acer's last LGA1155 board built in 2013, and put in a Celeron G470 processor. Like the new 2016 case look powered by G470 inside, Windows 10, and low cost/power.

I really don't understand or follow the math. You seem to be thinking like a guy who owns a car junkyard. You seem to think it will be more profitable to part these out and make money, but have you done all the math?

The cpus may have sold for $285, but you have to pay ebay and paypal fees, plus maybe shipping depending on how you set up the auctions. What do you really get in the end? I'm guessing maybe $250 each.
Same thing with RAM. Sold for $38, but fees and shipping leave you probably with $30.
So that's $280 in your pocket, and you are left with a shell of a computer with no cpu, hence the need for the Pentium for $39.
The computer was $449.99, but that doesn't include tax, correct? Even with a low tax rate that's around $475 or so, and probably more.

Let's put that all together. You spend $475 and sell parts for $280. That's $195 now. But wait you had to buy a $39 cpu, so now we are at $234.
Some would say that's a lot of work and money for a computer with just a pentium and 4GB or RAM.

You can get a new Dell T20 barebones server for $179 and maybe a few bucks shipping, and it has the same Pentium class cpu with 4GB of RAM, and it's ECC which is a bonus. It has no hard drive or OS, but someone into computers likely has an extra hard drive or two sitting around, or you buy one cheap. Now to the OS. There are guys on Hardforum selling Win7 keys for $20.

So all that flailing around, tying up your money, waiting for auctions to complete, hoping buyers pay, and then later don't want to return, etc, and you could have just got the cheap computer to start with for about the same money, and maybe even less. It seems like a lot of work for no reason to me.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I really don't understand or follow the math. You seem to be thinking like a guy who owns a car junkyard. You seem to think it will be more profitable to part these out and make money, but have you done all the math?

The cpus may have sold for $285, but you have to pay ebay and paypal fees, plus maybe shipping depending on how you set up the auctions. What do you really get in the end? I'm guessing maybe $250 each.
Same thing with RAM. Sold for $38, but fees and shipping leave you probably with $30.
So that's $280 in your pocket, and you are left with a shell of a computer with no cpu, hence the need for the Pentium for $39.
The computer was $449.99, but that doesn't include tax, correct? Even with a low tax rate that's around $475 or so, and probably more.

Let's put that all together. You spend $475 and sell parts for $280. That's $195 now. But wait you had to buy a $39 cpu, so now we are at $234.
Some would say that's a lot of work and money for a computer with just a pentium and 4GB or RAM.

You can get a new Dell T20 barebones server for $179 and maybe a few bucks shipping, and it has the same Pentium class cpu with 4GB of RAM, and it's ECC which is a bonus. It has no hard drive or OS, but someone into computers likely has an extra hard drive or two sitting around, or you buy one cheap. Now to the OS. There are guys on Hardforum selling Win7 keys for $20.

So all that flailing around, tying up your money, waiting for auctions to complete, hoping buyers pay, and then later don't want to return, etc, and you could have just got the cheap computer to start with for about the same money, and maybe even less. It seems like a lot of work for no reason to me.

Great post.

 

[DidelisDiskas]

Now to the OS. There are guys on Hardforum selling Win7 keys for $20.

Why even waste money on windows for a celeron? Linux is just as good and simple for browsing and multimedia. The only reason i could think of, is compatibility with microsoft office.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I really don't understand or follow the math. You seem to be thinking like a guy who owns a car junkyard. You seem to think it will be more profitable to part these out and make money, but have you done all the math?

The cpus may have sold for $285, but you have to pay ebay and paypal fees, plus maybe shipping depending on how you set up the auctions. What do you really get in the end? I'm guessing maybe $250 each.
Same thing with RAM. Sold for $38, but fees and shipping leave you probably with $30.
So that's $280 in your pocket, and you are left with a shell of a computer with no cpu, hence the need for the Pentium for $39.
The computer was $449.99, but that doesn't include tax, correct? Even with a low tax rate that's around $475 or so, and probably more.

Let's put that all together. You spend $475 and sell parts for $280. That's $195 now. But wait you had to buy a $39 cpu, so now we are at $234.
Some would say that's a lot of work and money for a computer with just a pentium and 4GB or RAM.

You can get a new Dell T20 barebones server for $179 and maybe a few bucks shipping, and it has the same Pentium class cpu with 4GB of RAM, and it's ECC which is a bonus. It has no hard drive or OS, but someone into computers likely has an extra hard drive or two sitting around, or you buy one cheap. Now to the OS. There are guys on Hardforum selling Win7 keys for $20.

So all that flailing around, tying up your money, waiting for auctions to complete, hoping buyers pay, and then later don't want to return, etc, and you could have just got the cheap computer to start with for about the same money, and maybe even less. It seems like a lot of work for no reason to me.

If some people think they're working an angle or a "hustle", they'll work twice as hard for half the profit.

 

[VirtualLarry]

If some people think they're working an angle or a "hustle", they'll work twice as hard for half the profit.

Does building PCs for "poor people" count?

 

[waltchan]

The cpus may have sold for $285, but you have to pay ebay and paypal fees, plus maybe shipping depending on how you set up the auctions. What do you really get in the end? I'm guessing maybe $250 each.

You forgot to add CPU depreciation cost, which is the #1 enemy in lowering computer's value. Look what happen to Core 2 Duo E8400. i7-4790 has so much power depreciating to $150 in 5 years, while Pentium G3470 only loses $10 to $29. Sales tax is pocket change to me. I will repurchase all the used i7-4790s eight years later at $75 or less. LGA1150 is the last official support socket for Windows 7 and 8.1, so I will be using it for a long time. I did not want the newer Acer's Skylake PCs plus higher prices in first place.

 

[iiiankiii]

You forgot to add CPU depreciation cost, which is the #1 enemy in lowering computer's value. Look what happen to Core 2 Duo E8400. i7-4790 has so much power depreciating to $150 in 5 years, while Pentium G3470 only loses $10 to $29. Sales tax is pocket change to me. I will repurchase all the used i7-4790s eight years later at $75 or less. LGA1150 is the last official support socket for Windows 7 and 8.1, so I will be using it for a long time. I did not want the newer Acer's Skylake PCs plus higher prices in first place.

You totally missed the point. You picked the least important part of his argument. He's saying you could have gotten to a similar conclusion (equivalent CPU and 4GB) without the need to resale anything. You took the long road home instead of the more optimal route. That's what he's getting at. You thought you had a clever plan by buying those PC to save you cost. Instead, you wasted your time and (more than likely) money. You could have gotten to the same result without all the hustling and bustling. That's he's point.

Your logic is flawed. It doesn't matter if a G3470 cost me $1. If it doesn't do the things I want/need for it to do, it's not good enough. Most people don't give a crap if the CPU depreciates at a higher rate. If the CPU is able to perform the tasked needed by the user, that's what matter. For some, a G3470 just isn't good enough no matter how cheap it is. That's what you're failing to understand.

Plus, based on the PCs you're grabbing, there's no point to even get a PC as powerful as a G3470 if you're just using it for office work and consumption. That's a huge over kill. A sandy bridge celeron would have done just fine.

 

[Denithor]

Or, better yet, buy a Dell with a Sandy/Ivy quad on eBay with W7 already installed for like $150-200.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optipl...498191?hash=item1ea99a918f:g:V3gAAOSwa-dWjY1N

i5 2400, 4GB, 500GB with Windows 7 Pro installed all for $180 shipped.

Curb-stomps Haswell or Skylake Celeron performance into the ground in any kind of real-world tasks you need to do.

 

[LTC8K6]

The 4790 can turbo up to 4ghz under light loads, so it should still dominate in single thread performance.

The 4790 also has a considerably better igp and far more cache.

 

[VirtualLarry]

You forgot to add CPU depreciation cost, which is the #1 enemy in lowering computer's value. Look what happen to Core 2 Duo E8400. i7-4790 has so much power depreciating to $150 in 5 years, while Pentium G3470 only loses $10 to $29. Sales tax is pocket change to me. I will repurchase all the used i7-4790s eight years later at $75 or less. LGA1150 is the last official support socket for Windows 7 and 8.1, so I will be using it for a long time. I did not want the newer Acer's Skylake PCs plus higher prices in first place.

Look at what did happen to the E8400. How many years later is it? Nearly 8? And now you can get a 3.3Ghz SKL Pentium for $64 that blows it away.

If you were really all that concerned about depreciation, then why purchase the PCs today at all? Someone wise said that the best way to future-proof, is just to save your money.

And if you did need PCs today, but don't need the power of a 4790, why not buy as much PC as you need today? I guess that's what other people's comments are getting at.

You seem to have a fetish for buying older CPUs, when they are at a tipping point of being virtually worthless, both for the task at hand, and on the second-hand market. (Those two points being linked, and not coincidental.)

I mean, realistically, are those OEM mobos going to hold out for 8 years, just waiting for the return of their lovely 4790 CPUs?

And, given what 2500K CPUs go for these days, are the prices for a 4790 going to actually decrease that much on the secondary market, if they are still viable CPUs for the tasks that people will perform in 8 years? Again with my point, if they are virtually worthless on the secondary market, then they are virtually useless to use. If they're still worthwhile, then they will still have some value, and that goes against your plan.

 

[waltchan]

Or, better yet, buy a Dell with a Sandy/Ivy quad on eBay with W7 already installed for like $150-200.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optipl...498191?hash=item1ea99a918f:g:V3gAAOSwa-dWjY1N

i5 2400, 4GB, 500GB with Windows 7 Pro installed all for $180 shipped.

Curb-stomps Haswell or Skylake Celeron performance into the ground in any kind of real-world tasks you need to do.

That's way too expensive. Bad buy.... After removing the i7-4790 and 8GB RAM, the system is only $180 each with Windows 10. Only losers go the refurb route.

 

[waltchan]

Look at what did happen to the E8400. How many years later is it? Nearly 8? And now you can get a 3.3Ghz SKL Pentium for $64 that blows it away.

If you were really all that concerned about depreciation, then why purchase the PCs today at all? Someone wise said that the best way to future-proof, is just to save your money.

And if you did need PCs today, but don't need the power of a 4790, why not buy as much PC as you need today? I guess that's what other people's comments are getting at.

You seem to have a fetish for buying older CPUs, when they are at a tipping point of being virtually worthless, both for the task at hand, and on the second-hand market. (Those two points being linked, and not coincidental.)

I mean, realistically, are those OEM mobos going to hold out for 8 years, just waiting for the return of their lovely 4790 CPUs?

And, given what 2500K CPUs go for these days, are the prices for a 4790 going to actually decrease that much on the secondary market, if they are still viable CPUs for the tasks that people will perform in 8 years? Again with my point, if they are virtually worthless on the secondary market, then they are virtually useless to use. If they're still worthwhile, then they will still have some value, and that goes against your plan.

I appreciate your response. All CPUs depreciate, doesn't matter what you buy. I agree with you. No need for you to remind me again. Starting with LGA1155 socket, depreciation has slowed down somewhat due to fewer quantities produced than LGA775 before, and most of Sandy Bridges retain 70% of their value after 5 years. LGA775 depreciated even worse. Only after 3 years after Pentium E5800's launch, let's say, it's now only $10 shipped from $80 new.

We need and rely on PCs everyday, and my goal is to find the lowest depreciation rate as much as I can. That's real computing here. Certainly not i5 or i7. Pentium G3258 currently holds the title here. Unlike Pentium E5800, G3258 is expected to hold 90% of its value 3 years later.

Older CPUs that are worthless but still competitive today are always my interest. Let's see here, currently Athlon II X2 250 3.0GHz with Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 board, overclock to 3.7GHz, is my #1 pick here. Some of Athlon 220 can unlock to quad-core for free. Few years later, I expect to see FM2 A4-4000 and A4-5300 reaching $10 soon.

One thing to mention, old pocket-change CPUs for $5 have seen 300% more demand than the new, retail-price CPUs. I always get outbid each time, and the number of sold buy-it-now listings are always in high-quantities. So, I am NOT alone who are buying up all the $5 CPUs.

Get the point...anyways, more middle-class Americans are buying $5 CPUs than the new Haswells in stores. 10 years later, expect to see all the Sandy Bridges reaching $5 or less, and used motherboards for $20 or less. Sandy Bridge is the great-grandfather and founder of pocket-change modern CPUs for Windows 10 in my adulthood life. Intel will be moving on to 10nm Tigerlake, but I will always search for a $5 Sandy Bridge. Can't wait...

 

[dave_the_nerd]

That's way too expensive. Bad buy.... After removing the i7-4790 and 8GB RAM, the system is only $180 each with Windows 10. Only losers go the refurb route.

So your customers are losers? It's not like you can sell these Costco systems as "new" once you've stripped them for parts.

 

[stockwiz]

The more typical price for this processor is $80, not $40.. because one retailer decides to sell a loss leader that doesn't mean it's so easy to just get one anywhere for $40, so the whole argument isn't valid. I wouldn't pay $80 for one of these.

In any case one ALWAYS pays more money to get diminishing returns at the high end and this applies to just about every hobby in existence, from coin collecting, cars, kayaking, road biking, whatever... the high end stuff never gives you the same return for your cost, ever.

I'd rather have the latest stuff if I'm upgrading.. I bought a 2600K at launch and still use it.. I'm not going to pay 5 bucks and run a Q6600 system 10 years later. I'd rather have something newer. To each their own. With that said I have no reason to upgrade from Sandy yet.... I keep wanting to find one but to spend well over $1000 to get a maybe 33% performance boost when I only game at 1080P anyways... nah...

 

[frozentundra123456]

So your customers are losers? It's not like you can sell these Costco systems as "new" once you've stripped them for parts.

The ironic part of the thread to me is that the OP is criticizing intel for "pricing scams" while running a scam of his own. Seriously???

 

[frozentundra123456]

So your customers are losers? It's not like you can sell these Costco systems as "new" once you've stripped them for parts.

double post

 

[waltchan]

The more typical price for this processor is $80, not $40.. because one retailer decides to sell a loss leader that doesn't mean it's so easy to just get one anywhere for $40, so the whole argument isn't valid. I wouldn't pay $80 for one of these....

Exactly... I don't need to worry about depreciation for G3470 due to loss leader sale I bought in first place. :sneaky: Thread closed...