So in anandtech's recent reviews, the X2 gives pretty decent framerates in games like COD4 even on the 30" screens with full AF and 4x AA enabled. Think the new generation cards are going to have enough power to drive these huge screens, or are people still going to be stuck with SLI/crossfire when they want to game on these monsters? I'm looking into getting the samsung 305 in my next build, but the main thing holding me back is the necessity of dropping a lot of cash to stay on top of GPU refreshes. Any thoughts? I"m hoping the new cards coming out will have enough juice to drive 2560x1600 with some AA with a single card, and it looks like it's happening already.
3870X2 on 2560x1600
- Thread starter uclaLabrat
- Start date
It seems like you answered your own question in the first sentence. I could be reading it wrong though.
Well, mostly I play BF2 still and some COD4, so it doesn't seem like the single card issue is going to be the main obstacle anymore, but I don't know if the future cards coming out are going to be able to drive future games, like BF3 at that res. It seems like the "mainstream" resolution goes up quite a bit year after year, like now it's probably 1680x1050, whereas 2 years ago it was probably 1280x1024. Now a lot of people are migrating to 1920x1200, and even more are jumping up to 2560x1600. I'm hoping the cards will keep up with that trend.
I'd like some opinions though, as I'm not exactly experienced in GPU stuff
I'd like some opinions though, as I'm not exactly experienced in GPU stuff
Video card tech follows game tech trends. Both Nvidia and AMD/ATI are slated to bring out their new thoroughbreds this year. I personally think it's a non-issue. Every now and then a game will come along that will push the boundaries of CPU and GPU tech (such as Crysis last fall) but hardware tech eventually catches up...as it is doing quickly now.
bryanW1995
Lifer
- May 22, 2007
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wait for g100 and r700 to come out. If those show significant improvement over 3870x2 and 9800gx2 then you should be safe. If those show small, incremental improvements then you might want to keep at 1920x1200. Of course, if you're too concerned about upgrading your video card every 18 mos then you might want to get a 17" crt...
You need to bear in mind that the "single card" you're asking about is essentially HD3870 Crossfire on a single PCB, and has all of the same limitations as normal 3870 Crossfire. (can only force one render mode for non profiled games, can't create or edit profiles, and performance not at all suited for 25X16 in games that don't scale)
If you need to go single card, an 8800GTX OCd 10% would cost approximately the same, perform approximately the same, and offer that level of performance in every game, without profiles.
I'm basing this on performance numbers for the 3870X2 vs the 8800Ultra, which is essentially a 8800GTX clocked 10% higher.
http://techreport.com/articles.x/13967
There are several more powerful dual GPU sets than the 3870X2 as well which might provide the longevity you seem to be looking for.
lopri
Elite Member
- Jul 27, 2002
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That is a ridiculous recommendation. For one, 8800 GTX is 1.5 years old and still ~$500. 3870X2 is a dual-GPU card, but it differs in many ways from SLI/CF. Most importantly, it doesn't drag a user to a certain platform. For SLI/CF, you have to purchase the supported motherboards, which might or might not be the user's best interest. Also from what I've seen, 3870X2's scaling looks excellent. I suspect that it's because the two GPUs are on the same PCB, dramatically reducing latency. And there is semi-transparency to the OS. OS recognizes the X2 as a single video card, and doesn't mess up with the display configuration, and for the first time in dual-GPU history the X2 finally allows seamless multi-monitor setup.
Talking about the OS, all signs point to the superior maturity of AMD drivers when it comes to Vista support at this time. While I had many bitter experiences with ATI drivers in the past (especially with their installation/uninstallation packages), I think the credit should be given to where it's due. AMD showed off an excellent engineering with X2 - both hardware-wise and software-wise. Having used HD 3850, I am very pleased with its hassle-free operation under Vista 64-bit so far - which couldn't have been said with my previous 680i setup. (But that's probably more to do with NForce + GeForce combination rather than GeForce alone) Plus, with 3870X2 you get HD decoding, which 8800 series lacks. And even then, PureVideo decisively sucks compared to AVIVO in my subject testing. (which is actually backed by quite a few reputable online reviewers, sans Derek Wilson)
NV has been sitting on G80's 'laurel' for way too long. G80 is a fantastic product no doubt, but NV's on-going support (both for the new OS and old OS) has been dismal at best. I am sure they're working on something new, or maybe something bigger, but that doesn't justify their lazy support for the customers who paid top dollars for their products for the past year and a half.
If I buy either 3870X2 or 8800 GTX today, the choice is clear. I'd purchase a 3870X2. To my eyes it is a clearly more advanced technology and also has a better support at the moment.
Talking about the OS, all signs point to the superior maturity of AMD drivers when it comes to Vista support at this time. While I had many bitter experiences with ATI drivers in the past (especially with their installation/uninstallation packages), I think the credit should be given to where it's due. AMD showed off an excellent engineering with X2 - both hardware-wise and software-wise. Having used HD 3850, I am very pleased with its hassle-free operation under Vista 64-bit so far - which couldn't have been said with my previous 680i setup. (But that's probably more to do with NForce + GeForce combination rather than GeForce alone) Plus, with 3870X2 you get HD decoding, which 8800 series lacks. And even then, PureVideo decisively sucks compared to AVIVO in my subject testing. (which is actually backed by quite a few reputable online reviewers, sans Derek Wilson)
NV has been sitting on G80's 'laurel' for way too long. G80 is a fantastic product no doubt, but NV's on-going support (both for the new OS and old OS) has been dismal at best. I am sure they're working on something new, or maybe something bigger, but that doesn't justify their lazy support for the customers who paid top dollars for their products for the past year and a half.
If I buy either 3870X2 or 8800 GTX today, the choice is clear. I'd purchase a 3870X2. To my eyes it is a clearly more advanced technology and also has a better support at the moment.
Sorry- I don't feel that the single GPU performance of the 3870 is good enough for 25X16 gaming, and scaling is pretty variable with Crossfire. Over on Rage3d I've read that for non -profiled games the forced AFR doesn't work as often as it works. We know for a fact it takes ATi some weeks to get profiles together for games oftentimes. Check out the "Shoot'em Up" driver review and the games that added support for, and when it added them for example:
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?type=expert&aid=463
1. 1.5 years old or not, it offers a bigger framebuffer, and is not dependent on a compiler for VLIW shader efficiency. OCd 10% it offers similar performance to a 3870X2, better in some, worse in others. 2. In the USA, we can get ten different GTXs for $395-$450 these days:
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2149838&enterthread=y
Neither does an OCd 8800GTX, and it doesn't depend on multi card working to deliver it's comparable performance.
Do you have a link to something that says the SLi and CF bridges introduce latency any more than the on card bridge does for the 3870X2? OCd 8800GTXs don't require supported motherboards either- at least no more so than 3870X2s. The scaling is irrelevant if the end result is comparable- and it's usually preferable to achieve a level of performance with one GPU when possible. IMO multi card sets are best used achieving levels of performance unattainable with one card, or secondarily as a means of achieving parity with a newer card and saving some money.
No argument there- but he asked about whether a 3870X2 is a good bet for a 25X16 monitor, not multi monitor.
I've had few problems with several nForce/GeForce/Vista rigs.
I watch my movies on my 47" and 50" HD TVs rather than my 30" monitor, so I don't really check out HD decoding much. In any case, he asked about gaming, not this, so that's what I answered.
Really?
http://www.firingsquad.com/har...mance_update/page9.asp
Way back in September, Firing Squad doesn't seem to agree with you. I don't either- I've used many NVIDIA motherboard/graphics combo computers with every version of Vista, and my problems have been few and far between. To be fair, some of the CF problems have since been fixed, but the point is everyone has had trouble with Vista drivers, and NVIDIAs aren't in worse shape than ATi's.
How is 16 ROPs and 16TMUs with a VLIW shader arch and 256bit memory interface more advanced than a 8800GTX? The problem with the 3870X2 is that you're starting with all the limitations of the RV670. The fact that two of them can get up to 8800U level performance in commonly benched games doesn't mean it's an all around better choice- just that it's a choice.
It's funny how Rollo used to defend the 7950GX2 as a single card and sing it's praises, but now trashes the 3870X2.
I'm not trashing the X2, I'm saying I don't think it's the best choice for a 25X16 monitor and longevity. (which is sort of a myth anyway)
For the most part I think the 3870X2 is a solid product and I wish I had one to play with.
lopri
Elite Member
- Jul 27, 2002
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JAG87: I do actually appreciate nRollo's effort to make his point clear by commenting on my sentences. (Though I do think he could have grouped up some of them)
nRollo: Being afraid of dragging arguments, I will just point out a couple things in your post style
- If you want to stick to helping out the OP, maybe your answer should have been limited to whether 3870X2 is enough for 30" today. Instead of longevity issue which you yourself agree to be moot as well as recommending lacking alternative. FYI, I'm running a 30" with a single 8800 GT and I think it's good enough in general for myself.
- your 'I didn't have a problem with a product A' is 100% countered by someone else's 'I had a problem with the product'. I did like my 8800/680i setup a lot but I wouldn't say it was trouble free. I don't see the need to link numerous issues surrounding 8800/680i, but I want to point out that there are times when 'I didn't have any issue' is enough to make an argument, and when it is NOT enough.
nRollo: Being afraid of dragging arguments, I will just point out a couple things in your post style
- If you want to stick to helping out the OP, maybe your answer should have been limited to whether 3870X2 is enough for 30" today. Instead of longevity issue which you yourself agree to be moot as well as recommending lacking alternative. FYI, I'm running a 30" with a single 8800 GT and I think it's good enough in general for myself.
- your 'I didn't have a problem with a product A' is 100% countered by someone else's 'I had a problem with the product'. I did like my 8800/680i setup a lot but I wouldn't say it was trouble free. I don't see the need to link numerous issues surrounding 8800/680i, but I want to point out that there are times when 'I didn't have any issue' is enough to make an argument, and when it is NOT enough.
On your first point, I was trying to get across that I think the OCd 8800GTXs more uniform performance make it a better choice for this resolution even today. Your 8800GT offers higher performance as a single GPU, and that's part of the reason for my answer. If the question was about lower resolutions where the difference in single GPU performance wasn't as critical, I don't have a problem with the 3870X2.
On your second, I did offer a link to a review that said NVIDIA's Vista drivers were in good shape to support my own experiences. The thing about the impossible to argue "whose drivers are better" debate is it's entirely dependent on the software being run, and the mix of hardware interacting. My box has no add in cards, no OCing, and I have only mainstream games, MS Office, and SQL Server installed, so my "driver experience" might be totally different than someone with their slots full of add in cards, a big OC, and a bigger variety of software. As I've seen first hand Vista can return a "nVidia driver has timed out and recovered " error when my power supply was failing, and read about any number of "solutions' like "reducing overheating", I don't think there's a clear answer to that question.
I find it humerous that all the ATI shills that used to lambast the the NV dual-chip on one card and dual card solutions as useless now sing the praises of same
Keysplayr
Elite Member
- Jan 16, 2003
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Originally posted by: ginfest
I find it humerous that all the ATI shills that used to lambast the the NV dual-chip on one card and dual card solutions as useless now sing the praises of same
Enough of this garbage please. Talk about the tech, and not the posters.
Anandtech Moderator - KP
apoppin
Lifer
i have CrossFire now ... and it isn't enough for 16x10 with everything maxed in the DX10 pathway
forget 25x16 without QuadXfire or Tri-SLI
in this case [n]Rollo is right .... 3870x2 is a very nice card ... but not for what you want
hey! Quit dissin' my dark master!
There is a difference with the 7950GX2 and the 3870X2- the 7950GX2 offered levels of performance a single card couldn't. That's an important distinction, especially here where the question is about what you'd want to run games on a $1200 monitor.
IMHO, [A]Apoppin is right- some sort of high end SLi is the best match for a 25 X 16 display, or Quad Fire when it becomes available.
This has nothing to do with brands- everything to do with matching the best hardware for the job. I like 3870X2s fine- they're a good value and a step in the right direction for ATi. Loved my MAXX, considered buying one of these today to play with. (and haven't ruled out the possibility yet)
apoppin
Lifer
Originally posted by: nRollo
hey! Quit dissin' my dark master!
There is a difference with the 7950GX2 and the 3870X2- the 7950GX2 offered levels of performance a single card couldn't. That's an important distinction, especially here where the question is about what you'd want to run games on a $1200 monitor.
IMHO, [A]Apoppin is right- some sort of high end SLi is the best match for a 25 X 16 display, or Quad Fire when it becomes available.
This has nothing to do with brands- everything to do with matching the best hardware for the job. I like 3870X2s fine- they're a good value and a step in the right direction for ATi. Loved my MAXX, considered buying one of these today to play with. (and haven't ruled out the possibility yet)
sheesh ... you got to sell it to someone ... might as well get something worthwhile in return
:Q
IF i wanted to game on a 25x16 monitor - today - i would pick either the GTX ultra or the 3870X2 with an eye to SLIing or CrossFiring them.
let me qualify the above ... if you are *content* to play the DX9 pathway and don't mind leaving off AA and occasionally dropping some detail, then a *single* HD3780 or a 8800GTX ultra will probably suffice.
That said, i would most like wait a relatively short time to see what nvidia's X2 is like or wait for the true 'next gen' GPUs and not have to screw with CrossFire or SLI at all
- and to further qualify it, setting up CrossFire was damn EASY - like with Staples "easy button" ... i go a noticeable improvement ... will i keep my 2nd card ... probably ... heck, i may even trade up to another XT if my Pro doesn't OC .
AzN
Banned
- Nov 26, 2001
- 4,112
- 2
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Originally posted by: nRollo
hey! Quit dissin' my dark master!
There is a difference with the 7950GX2 and the 3870X2- the 7950GX2 offered levels of performance a single card couldn't. That's an important distinction, especially here where the question is about what you'd want to run games on a $1200 monitor.
IMHO, [A]Apoppin is right- some sort of high end SLi is the best match for a 25 X 16 display, or Quad Fire when it becomes available.
This has nothing to do with brands- everything to do with matching the best hardware for the job. I like 3870X2s fine- they're a good value and a step in the right direction for ATi. Loved my MAXX, considered buying one of these today to play with. (and haven't ruled out the possibility yet)
Do you have to advertise this on your sig for being in Nvidia's focus group?
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