36" Sony WEGA needs a slight adjustment.........

[redgtxdi]

Thanks Unheard!

Googling and looking at avsforum as we type......



Amazing some of the stuff they hide in these service menus (reading avsforum).


In other news, I was surprised to see how Sony's "VM" actually does work!! When I plugged the TV in, it was setup w/ it on "high" but that was a bit too sharp to me. I tried it off, but that's too soft, so I settled for "low". Still, I have to admit the thing actually works.

I also changed the temp from cool (blue-white) to neutral. "Warm" (supposedly NTSC standard according to the menu notes.

I'm still kinda' stuck on "Vivid" as it's the way I like things, but I just toned the color down a hair and contrast (picture) down a few ticks.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: JackBurton
Could you explain to me what the "shortcomings" of plasmas are?

COST, COST, COST, Heat, and Screen Burn in. And untill now they used to come in low resolutions.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Thanks Unheard!

Googling and looking at avsforum as we type......



Amazing some of the stuff they hide in these service menus (reading avsforum).


In other news, I was surprised to see how Sony's "VM" actually does work!! When I plugged the TV in, it was setup w/ it on "high" but that was a bit too sharp to me. I tried it off, but that's too soft, so I settled for "low". Still, I have to admit the thing actually works.

I also changed the temp from cool (blue-white) to neutral. "Warm" (supposedly NTSC standard according to the menu notes.

I'm still kinda' stuck on "Vivid" as it's the way I like things, but I just toned the color down a hair and contrast (picture) down a few ticks.

VM is an ugly hack that should always be turned off. Same with vivid mode. Warm is also 100% proper. It really does look better calibrated once you're eyes are adjusted to normality.

But yeah, there will definitely be a geometry setting for your left side - probably a million different ones, depending on HOW the geometry is off. But you NEED a crosshatch pattern to do it right, otherwise, you'll end up making it worse. If it's convergence, you'll have even more fun with it, and if it's horizontal line convergenc, you probably won't be able to fix it at all in the menu - you'll need magnets.

Hey, at least you're only in denial!! I think that still means you're neurotic and not psychotic, so that's a good sign for you!

Whatever floats your boat. But honestly, your complaints with SD on HDTVs probably has more to do with the fact that you leave it in vivid mode with VM on more than anything else. VM and Vivid will bring out the very, very worst in a noisy SD signal.

 

[redgtxdi]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Whatever floats your boat. But honestly, your complaints with SD on HDTVs probably has more to do with the fact that you leave it in vivid mode with VM on more than anything else. VM and Vivid will bring out the very, very worst in a noisy SD signal.

No, as I've said in other posts. I spent weeks on avs and went over & over menus, settings, cables, STB's, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc..........(to no end)

And as I've said before....it's a simple matter of 480i on a 720 native panel. It simply doesn't work well, no matter the scaler.

And as I've said before.....thus "Let It Wave" technology and others, despite the fact that they may be too late if TV makes it to all-HD all the time before they get sets out there utilizing the processing........(as per Faroudja's statements regarding the same).


And if I can't make a simple fix of my own set, I might just have the local TV guy come out (I've used him in years past) and let him do it. At least it'll be his problem after he lays his hands on it.

 

[redgtxdi]

Well, it appears I've found the Service Manual for my set.......(and others w/ the same suffix).


Entering S.Menu appears to be similar........display/5/Vup/Power.

Next, it appears that the closest thing to my trouble would appear to be PINAMP, though any fix in that regard would by symmetrical and mine appears to be one-sided.

I'm contemplating printing the S.M. here at work, except it's 250pages.......DOH!! :Q That'd put a good drain on the toner cart. for sure........

And since it's not symmetrical *and* I don't have a cross-hatch DVD necessarily handy, I might just let the TV guy do it. WTH, the TV was free & it's a good one, so might be worth investing a few bucks to get it in ship shape.

 

[Old Hippie]

There are other places that have a "Dummied-Down" manual (can't remember 'um ATM), but believe me, screwing with that stuff isn't for the faint of heart.

the TV was free & it's a good one, so might be worth investing a few bucks to get it in ship shape.

That's the ticket. :thumbsup:

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
No lie!!


As my couch & loveseat are set up.......the seat most perpendicular to the TV right now (i.e. worst viewing angle) has got to be under 30 degrees to the plane of the face of the TV and I can still see it easily. (Actually might be even easier than my 27" as the 27 was not flat and this 36" is truly flat!)

CRT forevvaaaarrrrrrrr!!!

I mean http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Well, it appears I've found the Service Manual for my set.......(and others w/ the same suffix).


Entering S.Menu appears to be similar........display/5/Vup/Power.

Next, it appears that the closest thing to my trouble would appear to be PINAMP, though any fix in that regard would by symmetrical and mine appears to be one-sided.

I'm contemplating printing the S.M. here at work, except it's 250pages.......DOH!! :Q That'd put a good drain on the toner cart. for sure........

And since it's not symmetrical *and* I don't have a cross-hatch DVD necessarily handy, I might just let the TV guy do it. WTH, the TV was free & it's a good one, so might be worth investing a few bucks to get it in ship shape.

Get the AVIA DVD. You'll use it for years...it's worth every penny. It'll have the crosshatch and every other pattern you can ever imagine, excellent explanations and all. Like I said before, your eyes may tell you at first that the calibrated set doesnt look as good, but thats cause they're used to the vivid image that insults your retinas.

If you have a DVD player that can .jpgs and what not, you could at least download a quick and dirty crosshatch for now.

The TV guy will charge you a lot more for this service than the cost of the DVD.

You shouldnt need the actual service manual, you should be able to find something close enough. A slight bend dowward at a corner makes me think convergence...does the color get all messy at that edge, or is it a clean image thats bent?

If its clean, I'm guessing it's your skew or trapezoid thats off, the other side is probably off as well but masked by overscan.

No, as I've said in other posts. I spent weeks on avs and went over & over menus, settings, cables, STB's, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc..........(to no end)

And as I've said before....it's a simple matter of 480i on a 720 native panel. It simply doesn't work well, no matter the scaler.

The reason you actually notice the scaling error is because you've got sharpness and contrast jacked up to such a high level that you bring the worst of it out, ESPECIALLY with VM. Unless you have the eyes of an eagle, the only scaling errors that should really stand out is text and other hard edges that are now aliased, and VM and high sharpness/contrast will take that aliasing and make it even more apparent, not to mention, completely inaccurate. SD looking bad on HD is a very, very common complaint from people that have completely uncalibrated TVs.

Of course, if there's anyone thats completely beyond convincing, its you, but you're compounding your own problem. You're a paradox though...you go wild over HDTVs not looking right, which means you actually know enough to care, and yet don't even calibrate....doesn't make sense.

 

[redgtxdi]

Well, I'm actually not a fan of vivid, but in the case of this 36" CRT, there's a lot of real estate to spread the light around on & it can be a little dark.........(compared to say a 19" CRT that's bright as the sun in every square centimeter).


I've seen a calibrated Panny and while it did look better, I was still able to pick out the stuff that makes SDTV look bad.

As others have said, blowing up a 320 youtube video to a full-screen 1024 x 768 will look horrible no matter what you do. The current Faroudja VPU's in most good TV's these days still cannot resolve the very basic (yet very critical) resolution issue.

And again, thus the market need for a company like "Let It Wave". If their services weren't needed, they wouldn't be in business.


My bro-in-law forgot the remote when he dropped the TV off yesterday so he's mailing it to me today. I'm just using the same Samsung universal remote I was using on my old RCA & it works for now, but I'm guessin' I'll need the SONY remote to get into the S.Menu.

Don't get me wrong........I love HDTV. I just don't love SDTV on an HDTV.

Eventually......(hopefully)........all TV will be HD and then it won't matter anymore.

Of course, then I'll just bitch about aspect ratio's..............

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Well, I'm actually not a fan of vivid, but in the case of this 36" CRT, there's a lot of real estate to spread the light around on & it can be a little dark.........(compared to say a 19" CRT that's bright as the sun in every square centimeter).


I've seen a calibrated Panny and while it did look better, I was still able to pick out the stuff that makes SDTV look bad.

As others have said, blowing up a 320 youtube video to a full-screen 1024 x 768 will look horrible no matter what you do. The current Faroudja VPU's in most good TV's these days still cannot resolve the very basic (yet very critical) resolution issue.

And again, thus the market need for a company like "Let It Wave". If their services weren't needed, they wouldn't be in business.


My bro-in-law forgot the remote when he dropped the TV off yesterday so he's mailing it to me today. I'm just using the same Samsung universal remote I was using on my old RCA & it works for now, but I'm guessin' I'll need the SONY remote to get into the S.Menu.

Don't get me wrong........I love HDTV. I just don't love SDTV on an HDTV.

Eventually......(hopefully)........all TV will be HD and then it won't matter anymore.

Of course, then I'll just bitch about aspect ratio's..............

If the picture is too dark, you probably need to up brightness/black level, not contrast (what vivid mostly does).

Blowing up a low res youtube movie to your monitor is going to look bad because its low resolution and you're too close to your monitor for it. Blowing up a 480i image to a TV watched from a distance is a different story, unless you like to sit 4 feet from it.

"Let it wave" isnt a panacea. It's more about making SD look better on a HD set than making it look just as good. To think all HDTVs are crap unless they can make SD look like HD is a bit crazy. It's all about a fringe product for the people with the cash to spend, not even close to being needed. If you're going to stare at the edges of screenshots all day itll seem like a massive difference, but in motion, it'll be hard to tell.

But even it has it's flaws and limitations. It requires expensive hardware. It has a 2 frame delay, which will be a pain in the ass to deal with as far as your audio equipment goes. It'll work great on still images, and they like to show that off, but for images in motion, your eye will have a hell of a time telling the difference. The rest of the magic is just noise reduction and deinterlacing, and that is absolutely nothing special or magical, any TV can handle that.

Native resolution is important for computers and gaming because nearly everything by nature is aliased...video/film is a VERY different beast. Seriously, if you can see scaling artifacts on a video in motion, even with the muddiest bilinear upscale, I want your eyes...they must be bionic or something.

 

[redgtxdi]

Originally posted by: BD2003
Seriously, if you can see scaling artifacts on a video in motion, even with the muddiest bilinear upscale, I want your eyes...they must be bionic or something.

They are..........



Again, I think HDTV's are cool!!! Once everything's in HD, it'll be awesome...........(My bro/sis's new Pio Pro is a marvel in HD).........but SDTV (to my bionic eyes) simply isn't acceptable. Some is, but not most of what I watch.



I'll try & d/l a hatch pattern tonight & see what it shows.

 

[SSSnail]

In a related question, I have an older Sony projection (non HD, 4x3), and the color is a bit out of whack. Does anyone know how to get into the service console so I can adjust the lines a bit? PM me please.

Thanks!

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
In a related question, I have an older Sony projection (non HD, 4x3), and the color is a bit out of whack. Does anyone know how to get into the service console so I can adjust the lines a bit? PM me please.

Thanks!

By "color is out of wack", what exactly do you mean?

 

[redgtxdi]

It's under the color sub-menu named.......

Main>video>color>whack> values 0-10

You must change the "whack value" to the desired level.

 

[redgtxdi]

OK, well I got into the service menu but I don't have an "enter" button on my Sammy remote, so I'm gonna leave it alone 'til I get the Sony remote.

Here are some pics, though to kind of show what I'm talking about.......

Best pic to see it on due to letter boxes <---If you look, you'll notice a slight bend downward in both the top and bottom black margins on the left side of the screen

Kinda' showing the bottom curve <---Here you can kinda' see the ESPN bar bending downward in the bottom left.

Lastly, showing the upper left corner by itself <---Here you can see the left side of the BCS banner kinda' bending downward.


Anyway.......hopefully it the pics show what I'm trying to show. Thanks for lookin'!

 

[TerryMathews]

Service menu might be able to straighten it out, but OTOH you (or someone who does it for you) may need to crack it open and adjust the magnets that control the yoke.

Your TV is exhibiting several compound geometry problems that are common with these heavy Sony Wegas, mostly due to the fact that they are dropped/sat down hard due to weight and that has a nasty habit of knocking the magnets out of place.

You might want to look around your area and see if there is a TV repair shop/used TV shop that might be able to fix it for you on the cheap. Basic tweaking + alignment should be in the $50 range, and well worth it.

 

[redgtxdi]

Thanks Terry.

Yes, I agree that it might possibly more than just adjustment.

My sis/bro-in-law bought this set new and I trust them to have treated it nicely but who knows what happened from the time it was built 'til yesterday when it arrive in my entertainment center.


There's a local TV guy (a bit raw, but good) who comes out on location and will do the work. I might have to have my neighbor over 'cuz if he had to take the back off, I'm sure he'd say he wouldn't help.....(he's not overly old or weak, but he's just an awnry cuss).

Reading thru the service manual, I think I'd definitely like a whoooooole calibration of the TV as it looks like it would be a good idea to have all the tools put to use that they mention in the manual....

Pattern generator
Frequency counter
Digital multimeter
Audio oscillator----(though I'm not concerned with the audio)

 

[BD2003]

It looks to me like the entire left quarter of the screen is sagging down a bit. You should be able to straighten it out pretty well with service mode once you get the proper remote.

But I cannot stress this enough: Write down EVERY SETTING YOU CHANGE. Even if you think it did nothing, write it down. There is no undo function, and if you are flying blindly you can only make it worse. Seriously, write it down.

 

[redgtxdi]

Thanks BD.

And actually, you worded that quite well.........."left quarter".

From top to bottom, that's about right.

There does also seem to be a bit of a horizontal bow (high center low sides) compounding the problem, that even correcting that would still leave the "left quarter" a little low.

 

[SSSnail]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: SSSnail
In a related question, I have an older Sony projection (non HD, 4x3), and the color is a bit out of whack. Does anyone know how to get into the service console so I can adjust the lines a bit? PM me please.

Thanks!

By "color is out of wack", what exactly do you mean?

I think the lines are not lining up right, so I can see shadows. If I look close, I can see a blurring of colors or excess, I hope you understand what I'm talking about.

 

[redgtxdi]

Snail.........

You might want to go to avsforum.com and check w/ the folks there.

That's like the home of TV talk. Everything TV's is there!!



Here's hopin' the remote shows up today so I can do some serious damage......err......work on the TV tonight!!

(Remembers to have pad/paper handy)

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: SSSnail
In a related question, I have an older Sony projection (non HD, 4x3), and the color is a bit out of whack. Does anyone know how to get into the service console so I can adjust the lines a bit? PM me please.

Thanks!

By "color is out of wack", what exactly do you mean?

I think the lines are not lining up right, so I can see shadows. If I look close, I can see a blurring of colors or excess, I hope you understand what I'm talking about.

Sounds like convergence. You probably dont even need to go into service mode to do convergence on a projection. You may or may not be able to fix it.

 

[redgtxdi]

Curious about magnet adjustment..............



I guess I thought I was under the impression that magnets would have to be adjusted by taking the TV apart.

Apparently, they do it with other magnets on the "outside" of the set???


(I'm thinkin' more & more that I'd rather have a good TV repair person do this & get it dialed in completely)

 

[Raincity]

I have the same problem with my 32? Wega. While I was able to make improvement using a Avia DVD and adjusting the settings in service mode I was never able to get the geometry just right. From what I gathered on the internet this is an issue due to weak power supplies and the size of the tube. The tube has to be short enough to get the TV and packaging through a standard size housing entry door so the short distance between the screen and the yolk causes this issue.

 

[redgtxdi]

Have you considered a TV repairman???

I'd assume if they can assuredly play w/ the magnets and they know what "good" looks like, then they should be able to dial your set in pretty good, no???


???