3 yr old chokes to death while watching Alien Vs Predetor

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,885
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1. Why is a 3 yr old watching this movie????

2. Reading the article, I'm concerned that when the father dug in the boy's throat, he pushed the popcorn further down, lodging it.

3. Having had some advanced medical training, if the person is choking for more than three minutes and is not getting any air through (person's face will turn blue), or becomes unconscious, you can sterilize a sharp knife or razorblade and make a small cut below the "Adam's apple". You'll feel a tough tube (feels like chicken grizzle) you need to cut through. The incision should be no more than 1" or so. You can then insert a drinking straw down the throat to allow air through.

Poor poor kid....ruined my whole morning :(

EDIT: DOH forgot link: 3 Yr Old Chokes on Popcorn...
 

zixxer

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2001
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Originally posted by: Anubis
link?
and yes you can do an emergency treaceotomy but not many can do it

omfg. I'd be worried to death I'd get sued if I did something like that and the person died.
 

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,255
403
126
Poor kid :(

I sure as hell wouldn't be very comfortable sticking a knife into someone's throat. It would be a good thing to learn, like CPR, though.
 

UnatcoAgent

Diamond Member
Oct 25, 1999
5,462
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Originally posted by: DurocShark
Originally posted by: Sabot
Man, that movie was terrible.

Really? I'm taking my 13 year old to see it today. We've been looking forward to it...

Yeah it was actually horrible. Your kid will probably enjoy it, but if you liked the Alien or Predator films, you will most likely hate it.
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
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I was kind of amused by the irony of sterilizing the knife and the jabbing a soda straw into the wound and breathing into it. Is sterilizing the knife going to help much?
 

UnatcoAgent

Diamond Member
Oct 25, 1999
5,462
1
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Originally posted by: Jzero
I was kind of amused by the irony of sterilizing the knife and the jabbing a soda straw into the wound and breathing into it. Is sterilizing the knife going to help much?

I would think it would help tremendously to heal the wound afterwards. If you are using a non-sterilized blade you can literally inject an infectious substance into the wound, especially in such a vital area.

The soda probably wouldn't help either.
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
a non-sterile soda straw = nasty bacteria

a non-sterile knife = tetanus
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
another sad fact: the mom tried to commit suicide by laying down in traffic...
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,885
2,125
126
Originally posted by: armatron
Originally posted by: Anubis
link?
and yes you can do an emergency treaceotomy but not many can do it

omfg. I'd be worried to death I'd get sued if I did something like that and the person died.

Most states have a good samaritian law saying you can't sue someone trying to help you. If the person is turning blue or passes out, they're going to die within a couple of minutes. At that point, you need to try anything to get them breathing again. Someone that small, you can also try putting them over your leg with their head down and thrust your fist underneat the rib cage.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,466
3
76
Originally posted by: armatron
Originally posted by: Anubis
link?
and yes you can do an emergency treaceotomy but not many can do it

omfg. I'd be worried to death I'd get sued if I did something like that and the person died.

Sad but true. Welcome to the litigious world that morons created.
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,885
2,125
126
Originally posted by: Sabot
Originally posted by: Jzero
I was kind of amused by the irony of sterilizing the knife and the jabbing a soda straw into the wound and breathing into it. Is sterilizing the knife going to help much?

I would think it would help tremendously to heal the wound afterwards. If you are using a non-sterilized blade you can literally inject an infectious substance into the wound, especially in such a vital area.

The soda probably wouldn't help either.

The knife will be cutting flesh, so it needs to be sterile. The straw is wrapped (obviously don't use a used one), so it should be OK. It won't be cutting anything, just entering the airway.
 

911paramedic

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2002
9,450
1
76
Originally posted by: Fritzo3. Having had some advanced medical training, if the person is choking for more than three minutes and is not getting any air through (person's face will turn blue), or becomes unconscious, you can sterilize a sharp knife or razorblade and make a small cut below the "Adam's apple". You'll feel a tough tube (feels like chicken grizzle) you need to cut through. The incision should be no more than 1" or so. You can then insert a drinking straw down the throat to allow air through.[/L]
You have seen too many movies and your "advanced" training seems to have escaped you. A 1" cut on a 3 year old would be WAY WAY WAY too big, and inserting a straw wouldn't do a thing. The straw would be crushed with the pressure of the tissue around it, plain and simple. A standard drinking straw would also probably be larger in diameter than the childs trachea, square peg into round hole. (not to mention not having suction for the bleeding) At that age if you see the obstruction in the oropharynx you are supposed to try and remove it with your finger.

Performing such an action you WOULD NOT be protected by the Good Samaritan law, that would be called "practicing medicine without a license". Even as somebody that has done these (with a catheter, not incising) I would be guilty of it as well if I was off duty without the proper equipment.

It sounds like they tried everything but it was a tragic accident.
 

Mookow

Lifer
Apr 24, 2001
10,162
0
0
Originally posted by: 911paramedic
Originally posted by: Fritzo3. Having had some advanced medical training, if the person is choking for more than three minutes and is not getting any air through (person's face will turn blue), or becomes unconscious, you can sterilize a sharp knife or razorblade and make a small cut below the "Adam's apple". You'll feel a tough tube (feels like chicken grizzle) you need to cut through. The incision should be no more than 1" or so. You can then insert a drinking straw down the throat to allow air through.[/L]
You have seen too many movies and your "advanced" training seems to have escaped you. A 1" cut on a 3 year old would be WAY WAY WAY too big, and inserting a straw wouldn't do a thing. The straw would be crushed with the pressure of the tissue around it, plain and simple. A standard drinking straw would also probably be larger in diameter than the childs trachea, square peg into round hole. (not to mention not having suction for the bleeding) At that age if you see the obstruction in the oropharynx you are supposed to try and remove it with your finger.

Performing such an action you WOULD NOT be protected by the Good Samaritan law, that would be called "practicing medicine without a license". Even as somebody that has done these (with a catheter, not incising) I would be guilty of it as well if I was off duty without the proper equipment.

It sounds like they tried everything but it was a tragic accident.

What is the internal diameter of the average adult human's trachea?
 

neutralizer

Lifer
Oct 4, 2001
11,552
1
0
Originally posted by: Fritzo
Originally posted by: armatron
Originally posted by: Anubis
link?
and yes you can do an emergency treaceotomy but not many can do it

omfg. I'd be worried to death I'd get sued if I did something like that and the person died.

Most states have a good samaritian law saying you can't sue someone trying to help you. If the person is turning blue or passes out, they're going to die within a couple of minutes. At that point, you need to try anything to get them breathing again. Someone that small, you can also try putting them over your leg with their head down and thrust your fist underneat the rib cage.

That's doesn't sound like too much fun either.
 

Gravity

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2003
5,685
0
0
I had to reach for an ice cube my 2 year old ingested and finally got it. That was after inverting her and some brief panic. That happened 9 years ago....never been that scared in my whole life.

I feel for the guy.
 

911paramedic

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2002
9,450
1
76
What is the internal diameter of the average adult human's trachea?

The average would be about the size of your pinky. We use ET (endotracheal tubes) that range from 2-9mm in diameter, and I use mostly 6.5 through 8mm tubes. (depending on how large the adult is, large man vs. small woman)
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,885
2,125
126
Originally posted by: 911paramedic
Originally posted by: Fritzo3. Having had some advanced medical training, if the person is choking for more than three minutes and is not getting any air through (person's face will turn blue), or becomes unconscious, you can sterilize a sharp knife or razorblade and make a small cut below the "Adam's apple". You'll feel a tough tube (feels like chicken grizzle) you need to cut through. The incision should be no more than 1" or so. You can then insert a drinking straw down the throat to allow air through.[/L]
You have seen too many movies and your "advanced" training seems to have escaped you. A 1" cut on a 3 year old would be WAY WAY WAY too big, and inserting a straw wouldn't do a thing. The straw would be crushed with the pressure of the tissue around it, plain and simple. A standard drinking straw would also probably be larger in diameter than the childs trachea, square peg into round hole. (not to mention not having suction for the bleeding) At that age if you see the obstruction in the oropharynx you are supposed to try and remove it with your finger.

Performing such an action you WOULD NOT be protected by the Good Samaritan law, that would be called "practicing medicine without a license". Even as somebody that has done these (with a catheter, not incising) I would be guilty of it as well if I was off duty without the proper equipment.

It sounds like they tried everything but it was a tragic accident.

Maybe you should sue the Red Cross, since they're the ones teaching to do that in extreme situations. It's a last ditch resort, so it's not like everyone's going to go around slicing throats. So you're saying this doesn't work??? I remember the instructor saying if a straw wasn't available, use anything you can find: the barrel of an ink pen, tightly rolled up paper/money, etc.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,466
3
76
Originally posted by: Fritzo
Originally posted by: armatron
Originally posted by: Anubis
link?
and yes you can do an emergency treaceotomy but not many can do it

omfg. I'd be worried to death I'd get sued if I did something like that and the person died.

Most states have a good samaritian law saying you can't sue someone trying to help you. If the person is turning blue or passes out, they're going to die within a couple of minutes. At that point, you need to try anything to get them breathing again. Someone that small, you can also try putting them over your leg with their head down and thrust your fist underneat the rib cage.

So we need to consult our local legislation before we attempt to assist someone?
 

911paramedic

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2002
9,450
1
76
Originally posted by: Fritzo
Originally posted by: 911paramedic
Originally posted by: Fritzo3. Having had some advanced medical training, if the person is choking for more than three minutes and is not getting any air through (person's face will turn blue), or becomes unconscious, you can sterilize a sharp knife or razorblade and make a small cut below the "Adam's apple". You'll feel a tough tube (feels like chicken grizzle) you need to cut through. The incision should be no more than 1" or so. You can then insert a drinking straw down the throat to allow air through.[/L]
You have seen too many movies and your "advanced" training seems to have escaped you. A 1" cut on a 3 year old would be WAY WAY WAY too big, and inserting a straw wouldn't do a thing. The straw would be crushed with the pressure of the tissue around it, plain and simple. A standard drinking straw would also probably be larger in diameter than the childs trachea, square peg into round hole. (not to mention not having suction for the bleeding) At that age if you see the obstruction in the oropharynx you are supposed to try and remove it with your finger.

Performing such an action you WOULD NOT be protected by the Good Samaritan law, that would be called "practicing medicine without a license". Even as somebody that has done these (with a catheter, not incising) I would be guilty of it as well if I was off duty without the proper equipment.

It sounds like they tried everything but it was a tragic accident.

Maybe you should sue the Red Cross, since they're the ones teaching to do that in extreme situations. It's a last ditch resort, so it's not like everyone's going to go around slicing throats. So you're saying this doesn't work???
With a straw? No. If they are telling people to do that they are making a huge mistake. I have only had to do that a few times in 7 years, and that was because there was either no oral cavity anymore or there was burn injuries that caused the epiglottis to swell so much that we couldn't intubate.

Performing such an advanced procedure is something that should only be done in a wilderness situation or when other medical aid is not within a reasonable response area. That particular procedure is one we are tested on before we can actually perform it as a licensed paramedic, I would hate to see a layperson try and perform it because they could make the situation worse. The complications are there even when using the correct equipment, trying to do it with a razor and a straw would be crazy.

P.S. Ventilating after doing one is also a PITA.