3 men cleared of 1995 Subway token clerk murder.

[shortylickens]

Some of you may remember this. You may also remember it was inspired by the movie Money Train, which drew criticism for giving people ideas.

3 men cleared in 1995 killing of NYC subway token clerk

The last several men to get released from prison on new evidence or correcting old evidence have been able to sue the city or state successfully. I hope these men follow suit. One was paroled in 2020, the other two just got let out.
My main complaint is the police who were involved probably won't be punished for their horse shit investigation, and its gonna cost the tax payers regardless.

 

[Moonbeam]

Seems a tough issue to me. On the one hand it isn't a good idea when peoploe in power are not held accountable in some meaningful way for wrongdoing, but on the other hand, who would serve as a policeman, say, if there were a good chance you could face a law suit, be actually innocent and have to go through a potentially financially ruinous legal trial to prove it and maybe fail.

 

[Vic]

Seems a tough issue to me. On the one hand it isn't a good idea when peoploe in power are not held accountable in some meaningful way for wrongdoing, but on the other hand, who would serve as a policeman, say, if there were a good chance you could face a law suit, be actually innocent and have to go through a potentially financially ruinous legal trial to prove it and maybe fail.

I, for one, have no issues with police who coerce false confessions facing legal repercussions for doing so. Not just because such practices result in the convictions of innocent persons, but also because it's lazy police work that endangers the public by letting the actual perpetrators get away their crimes.
The prospect of being held accountable only dissuades the lazy, the dishonest and the unethical. And given the ridiculous salaries the taxpayers of NYC pay their police, they deserve better.

 

[m8d]

AmeriKKKa's injustice system is a fucking joke.

 

[Amol S.]

Some of you may remember this. You may also remember it was inspired by the movie Money Train, which drew criticism for giving people ideas.

3 men cleared in 1995 killing of NYC subway token clerk

The last several men to get released from prison on new evidence or correcting old evidence have been able to sue the city or state successfully. I hope these men follow suit. One was paroled in 2020, the other two just got let out.
My main complaint is the police who were involved probably won't be punished for their horse shit investigation, and its gonna cost the tax payers regardless.

1995 was a year when a lot happened in NYC subway system, from what I learned about its history.
It was the year of a sleepy subway conductor incident/collision.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Williamsburg_Bridge_subway_collision

 

[Moonbeam]

I, for one, have no issues with police who coerce false confessions facing legal repercussions for doing so. Not just because such practices result in the convictions of innocent persons, but also because it's lazy police work that endangers the public by letting the actual perpetrators get away their crimes.
The prospect of being held accountable only dissuades the lazy, the dishonest and the unethical. And given the ridiculous salaries the taxpayers of NYC pay their police, they deserve better.

Given the level of violation of trust involved in a scenerio like that I should think repercussions should be substantial.

 

[sdifox]

Seems a tough issue to me. On the one hand it isn't a good idea when peoploe in power are not held accountable in some meaningful way for wrongdoing, but on the other hand, who would serve as a policeman, say, if there were a good chance you could face a law suit, be actually innocent and have to go through a potentially financially ruinous legal trial to prove it and maybe fail.

You mean like what happened to numerous people such as the three men in question?

 

[Moonbeam]

You mean like what happened to numerous people such as the three men in question?

What I mean is that to fix the issue of the tax payers getting stuck with the bill requires the individuals being held legally responsible personally and I imagine it would be possible to staff if that were the case. My guess would be a cop would have to buy insurance he or she could not afford.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

What I mean is that to fix the issue of the tax payers getting stuck with the bill requires the individuals being held legally responsible personally and I imagine it would be possible to staff if that were the case. My guess would be a cop would have to buy insurance he or she could not afford.

It's actually important that society as a whole be responsible, at least financially (if not 'morally') because it'll actually get changed if it happens enough. If we just let the onus fall on the individual every time, no institutional changes will take place, or at least not as quickly.

 

[sdifox]

What I mean is that to fix the issue of the tax payers getting stuck with the bill requires the individuals being held legally responsible personally and I imagine it would be possible to staff if that were the case. My guess would be a cop would have to buy insurance he or she could not afford.

Plenty of professionals carry liability insurance. Premium is based on risk of payout. A good cop would get a good rate. You know, like good drivers get good car insurance rates?

And if you keep fucking up forcing insurance to pay out, the insurance company may declare you persona non grata and you don't get to be a cop anymore.

 

[Moonbeam]

I just wanted to say to shortylickens, who gets upset about many social issues, that, while I sympathize with his concerns, and don’t like seeing justice not done, that moving from civil responsibility for police abuse as a way to bring greater justice does not seem to me to be without complications. My feeling is that no matter how infuriating our system is to endure as we find it, we will need both reason and some sense of inner endurance to solve it.

 

[hal2kilo]

I just wanted to say to shortylickens, who gets upset about many social issues, that, while I sympathize with his concerns, and don’t like seeing justice not done, that moving from civil responsibility for police abuse as a way to bring greater justice does not seem to me to be without complications. My feeling is that no matter how infuriating our system is to endure as we find it, we will need both reason and some sense of inner endurance to solve it.

I sense another set of goal posts moving.

 

[Moonbeam]

I sense another set of goal posts moving.

I think what you sense is that I made a pretty straightforward case that holding police officers instead of taxpayers responsible for police crimes of the kind under discussion raises other issues that complicate that as a simple solution easy to implement. As a person with, I believe, a strong drive to see justice done, I have a sympathy for others who feel the same way. What I do not like is to see that sympathy broken on the rocks of the impracticality.

Everywhere, here and in the world at large I see passion and frustrated rage driving people toward extremism. I couldn't even suggest this issue with police crimes raised some tough issues without somehow being tagged as suspect of police sympathy. I suggest then that perhaps were you similarly under that impression me attempting to disabusing you of that notion looks like moving the goal posts from what you wanted to see in my words to trying to clarify what I really was saying.

What I will do is try to be as honest as I know how to be in relating my motivations to you, and given I may not actually always see them, but I confess, I don't really care who believes me. My sense of self worth has little to do with what others think of me. Do I care. Yes. Is that my primary care; I think not by a long shot. I find shortylickens to be a person who is exceptionally hard on himself, in my opinion, so for him I especially wish it were otherwise. I know what that is like.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I sense another set of goal posts moving.

Nah, you're just seeing Moonie resort to his right wing authoritarian bootlicking/dicksucking ways. That is who he is deep down. Which would be fine if he just wanted to sit home and stroke his metal dildos, but if he thinks he can keep preaching from his asshole, then he should expect people to call him out on it.

I, for one, have no issues with police who coerce false confessions facing legal repercussions for doing so. Not just because such practices result in the convictions of innocent persons, but also because it's lazy police work that endangers the public by letting the actual perpetrators get away their crimes.
The prospect of being held accountable only dissuades the lazy, the dishonest and the unethical. And given the ridiculous salaries the taxpayers of NYC pay their police, they deserve better.

I personally have no issue with individual police officers facing legal repercussions for any and all negative behavior. Millions of people have been put into prison for "honest mistakes", no clue why police think they should get a free pass when it goes the other way.

 

[Moonbeam]

I personally have no issue with individual police officers facing legal repercussions for any and all negative behavior. Millions of people have been put into prison for "honest mistakes", no clue why police think they should get a free pass when it goes the other way.

I have no clue why you would think what the police think one way or another about honest mistakes has anything to do with making the laws that determine who will be held responsible for damages from law suits other than the direction we might predict they would lobby. And any parameters on that 'millions of people' claim?