3.8 V6 Thunderbird

[amdforever2]

Originally posted by: BatmanNate
If they're replacing the heads anyway the timing chain will be right there so I'm sure it will be checked if you have a decent mechanic.

It's just this guy I know who knows about cars whos doing it. Not really a mechanic, just a guy. I'll have him check it if he's going to run across it anyways.

 

[Down4U]

Originally posted by: jemcam

Originally posted by: Down4U
That I'm not too sure about. I've never had to replace the timing belt on my truck (Grand Cherokee '96 with 113k on it), but from what you're saying it makes me think that you may also need a timing belt. Lack of power can be the result of bad timing on your camshaft(s) (depends if your engine is DOHC or SOHC) which is governed by the timing belt.

For the last time, a Ford 3.8 liter has a timing chain, which means it is neither a sohc or a dohc. The camshaft rests in the valley of the V6 above the crankshaft.

Sorry.. I didn't see your other post. 🙁 I thought Fords made inline 6s, not V6s though.. I must have misread about the Fords.

 

[amdforever2]

Nevermind. If it takes extra effort to check the timing chain thats extra money, and quixfire said they don't usually fail anyways right?

 

[BatmanNate]

Originally posted by: Quixfire

Originally posted by: BatmanNate
If they're replacing the heads anyway the timing chain will be right there so I'm sure it will be checked if you have a decent mechanic.

The timing chain isn't right there. You would have to remove the complete front engine assembly to view the timing chain, 4.5 hour job to R&R front engine cover.

This is why I will never buy a Ford.

 

[jemcam]

Originally posted by: Quixfire

Originally posted by: BatmanNate
If they're replacing the heads anyway the timing chain will be right there so I'm sure it will be checked if you have a decent mechanic.

The timing chain isn't right there. You would have to remove the complete front engine assembly to view the timing chain, 4.5 hour job to R&R front engine cover.

Shouldn't be 4.5 hours after the intake and heads are removed, should it? More like 2.0 or so, right? All you've got to do is remove the crank pulley, harmonic balancer, water pump, and timing cover to inspect?

 

[BatmanNate]

My mistake, I was thinking we were talking about an overhead cam motor.

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: amdforever2
Well quixfire, my Thunderbird was in it's "smoking death" sequence for about 5-10 miles.

This is overheating, burning coolant, smoke pouring from exhaust. It did the smoking death for previous owner too. Is it likely this cracked the block? Mine is not supercharged, but it did burn coolant.

Anything is possible, but it's most unlikely. The supercharged engine has a different engine block to strengthen the lower end, so they lightened the block by removing metal around the cylinder walls. Your mechanic can check for cracks when the heads have been removed, or at least they should.

 

[jemcam]

Originally posted by: Down4U

Originally posted by: jemcam

Originally posted by: Down4U
That I'm not too sure about. I've never had to replace the timing belt on my truck (Grand Cherokee '96 with 113k on it), but from what you're saying it makes me think that you may also need a timing belt. Lack of power can be the result of bad timing on your camshaft(s) (depends if your engine is DOHC or SOHC) which is governed by the timing belt.

For the last time, a Ford 3.8 liter has a timing chain, which means it is neither a sohc or a dohc. The camshaft rests in the valley of the V6 above the crankshaft.

Sorry.. I didn't see your other post. 🙁 I thought Fords made inline 6s, not V6s though.. I must have misread about the Fords.

They do, but to the best of my knowledge, they made the 300 c.i.d, (4.9 liter) and the 200 cid, like were in the older mustangs of the 60's. Neither one of them had timing belts either, just chains. To the best of my knowledge, these motors have not been in production cars for the last 10 years or so. My 91 F150 had the 300 c.i.d or 4.9 in it. It ran like a champ, man I loved that truck.

Interesting fact; All UPS trucks had the 300 cid Ford inline 6's until they converted over to diesel in the last 10 years or so.

 

[amdforever2]

Again, it's not a mechanic, just a guy. He won't have any shop type tools to check for cracks. Just visual examination.

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: jemcam

Originally posted by: Quixfire

Originally posted by: BatmanNate
If they're replacing the heads anyway the timing chain will be right there so I'm sure it will be checked if you have a decent mechanic.

The timing chain isn't right there. You would have to remove the complete front engine assembly to view the timing chain, 4.5 hour job to R&R front engine cover.

Shouldn't be 4.5 hours after the intake and heads are removed, should it? More like 2.0 or so, right? All you've got to do is remove the crank pulley, harmonic balancer, water pump, and timing cover to inspect?

The 3.8L was designed to be serviced differently the most V-engines. You can service the front engine without removing the components bolted to the cylinder heads and it goes for the heads. Unlike the older V8's which require removal of several components to service either. Believe it or not the 3.8L is one of my favorite engines because of this, they also did it with the 3.0L V6 which is far more reliably.

 

[amdforever2]

What is the block made out of? Cast iron?

Would I hear a crack if one had occurred?

 

[Down4U]

They do, but to the best of my knowledge, they made the 300 c.i.d, (4.9 liter) and the 200 cid, like were in the older mustangs of the 60's. Neither one of them had timing belts either, just chains. To the best of my knowledge, these motors have not been in production cars for the last 10 years or so. My 91 F150 had the 300 c.i.d or 4.9 in it. It ran like a champ, man I loved that truck.

Interesting fact; All UPS trucks had the 300 cid Ford inline 6's until they converted over to diesel in the last 10 years or so.

Ford must have known ahead of time that V engines sucked. 😉 My pop hates Ford, but he swears by inline 6s. He'll never buy a Jeep Cherokee with the V6 on it. He's had plenty of things go wrong with V6s.

 

[amdforever2]

Also, theres some p*ssy engines that freak out and die if their timing chain/belt goes, is the 3.8 v6 one of them?

 

[Down4U]

Originally posted by: amdforever2
Also, theres some p*ssy engines that freak out and die if their timing chain/belt goes, is the 3.8 v6 one of them?

Toyota Camry is one of them that totally seizes if the timing belt goes kaput. Funny enough, the timing belt on Camry's is made out of plastic.

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: amdforever2
Again, it's not a mechanic, just a guy. He won't have any shop type tools to check for cracks. Just visual examination.

That's how I found them in the SC engines. Have him clean the cylinder walls with a shop rags then look for cracks in the cylinder walls. If you can catch your fingernail on a line/crack then you have a cracked block. One other note, make sure he follow the torque steps when tightening the head bolts, new one too, or the gaskets will just blow out again. Plus check you local Ford dealer's prices before over paying for a Fel-Pro kit. I still buy most of the gaskets for the 3.8L from the Ford Dealer.

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: amdforever2
Also, theres some p*ssy engines that freak out and die if their timing chain/belt goes, is the 3.8 v6 one of them?

No, it would have an engine miss, rough idle, poor acceleration and the such conditions.

 

[amdforever2]

Torque steps when tightening the head bolts?

😕



He's just a guy that tinkers with cars. He says he can do it but is it really so complicated? What do you mean by this?

 

[Down4U]

No, it would have an engine miss, rough idle, poor acceleration and the such conditions.

Speaking of rough idling.. I have a question.. A while ago I had the engine seals changed on my Grand Cherokee, along with new fuel pump & filter. Ever since I bought the truck it used to idle roughly until I started pouring a bottle of fuel injector cleaner in the gas tank every time I filled up. While the roughing has gotten better, I've noticed that the gas mileage I'm getting is getting worst. Is too much fuel injector cleaner the reason for that? My truck already has 113k on it, and I keep on top of oil changes every 3k miles.

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: amdforever2
Torque steps when tightening the head bolts?

😕



He's just a guy that tinkers with cars. He says he can do it but is it really so complicated? What do you mean by this?

First, make sure you use new headbolts when replacing the headgaskets.

For 3.8L engine, tighten cylinder head retaining bolts in sequence as follows:

• Tighten long and short bolts to 50 Nm (37 lb-ft).

CAUTION: Do not loosen all of the bolts at the same time, only work on one bolt at a time.

• Back off all bolts one at a time two to three revolutions.

• Tighten in numerical sequence:

- Long bolts to 15-25 Nm (11-18 lb-ft). Short bolts to 10-20 Nm (7-15 lb-ft).
- Rotate an additional 85-95 degrees.
- Go to next bolt in sequence.

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: Down4U

No, it would have an engine miss, rough idle, poor acceleration and the such conditions.

Speaking of rough idling.. I have a question.. A while ago I had the engine seals changed on my Grand Cherokee, along with new fuel pump & filter. Ever since I bought the truck it used to idle roughly until I started pouring a bottle of fuel injector cleaner in the gas tank every time I filled up. While the roughing has gotten better, I've noticed that the gas mileage I'm getting is getting worst. Is too much fuel injector cleaner the reason for that? My truck already has 113k on it, and I keep on top of oil changes every 3k miles.

I recommend starting a new thread on this topic. Jeeps are not by best subject but I'm sure other would have better solutions.

My gut instincts are a vacuum leak or a failed sensor causing the vehicle to consume too much fuel.

 

[JACKHAMMER]

I had a 91 T-bird V6. Worst Car ever. Trans went @ 45k. Head gasket before 60k. Frigging POS. BTW the problem was with the design of the engine, not from abuse before some one chimes in and says otherwise.

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: JACKHAMMER
I had a 91 T-bird V6. Worst Car ever. Trans went @ 45k. Head gasket before 60k. Frigging POS. BTW the problem was with the design of the engine, not from abuse before some one chimes in and says otherwise.

If you would have read the entire thread you would have spotted this.

OK, I was a Ford mechanic for eight years and here is the low down on the gasket problem. It's not the gasket material it was a assemblely process issue where the gasket was dinged when the cylinder heads were installed.

Go crap on someone else thread, you are not helping amdforever2 with his problem.

 

[Down4U]

Originally posted by: Quixfire

Originally posted by: Down4U

No, it would have an engine miss, rough idle, poor acceleration and the such conditions.

Speaking of rough idling.. I have a question.. A while ago I had the engine seals changed on my Grand Cherokee, along with new fuel pump & filter. Ever since I bought the truck it used to idle roughly until I started pouring a bottle of fuel injector cleaner in the gas tank every time I filled up. While the roughing has gotten better, I've noticed that the gas mileage I'm getting is getting worst. Is too much fuel injector cleaner the reason for that? My truck already has 113k on it, and I keep on top of oil changes every 3k miles.

I recommend starting a new thread on this topic. Jeeps are not by best subject but I'm sure other would have better solutions.

My gut instincts are a vacuum leak or a failed sensor causing the vehicle to consume too much fuel.

Ok cool. I figured I'd ask since you seem very insightful and knowledgeable. I've been meaning to change the air filter anyhow, so I guess I have a good reason to. 🙂