"2nd Most Dangerous City In America" Lays Off Half Of Police/Fire Forces

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Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
:thumbsup: At least you are consistent, unlike other "small government" proponents here.

The only one talking about "small government" is you... :rolleyes:


The layoffs are because there isn't enough money in the budget to pay them, and the Law dictates the budgets have to be balanced. But god forbid trolls like you would actually come up with usefull suggestions on how the City of Camden could raise more money. I'd be interested in hearing how you'd be able to come up with a few tens of millions of dollars quickly.



http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010...ew-jersey_8180834.html?boxes=financechannelAP

Camden, NJ, OKs laying off 1-in-4 city workers
Associated Press, 12.03.10, 03:28 PM EST


CAMDEN, N.J. -- The City Council in New Jersey's most impoverished and violent city has agreed on a plan to lay off one-fourth of city government workers, including about half the police department.

Camden's City Council approved the plan unanimously on Thursday despite pleas from workers and residents to find a way to save the jobs.

The layoffs are to be effective Jan. 18. The state Civil Service Commission has already approved them.

There could be fewer layoffs if public employee unions agree to concessions. Retirements also are likely to reduce the number.

Studies consistently find Camden to be among the most impoverished and crime-ridden cities in the country.

With a tiny tax base, the city of nearly 80,000 relies on the state for most of its funding. But the state slashed aid this year because of a fiscal crisis of its own. Communities across the state have laid off workers, with some of the biggest cuts coming in police departments in the largest cities.

This week, Newark laid off 167 officers, and Jersey City announced plans to lay off 82. Meanwhile, Atlantic City hired back 17 of the 60 officers it had let go after the police union agreed to pay cut.

Camden Police Chief Scott Thomson has said he'll reconfigure his department so patrols aren't reduced.

About one-third of Camden's firefighting positions also would be eliminated under the city's plans, which could affect every department in the city government.
 
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Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
Yep, the cons sure aren't.

Because it's not an issue of Small or Large Government.

It *IS* because there just isn't enough money to pay them. I've posted the city's budget. I've posted the news articles saying so. I've shown that the LAW here is that the budgets have to be balanced. And I've shown that the Government here are Democrats.

But Nooooo... You Libtards can't even make the smallest effort to even look at that. Easier to pull your 'Talking Points' out and throw baseless accusastions and spew whatever mindless sh*t comes to your tiny tiny minds.


Tell you what: I challenge you to show that this crisis is driven by some Conservative scheme to enforce Small Government.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Because it's not an issue of Small or Large Government.

It *IS* because there just isn't enough money to pay them. I've posted the city's budget. I've posted the news articles saying so. I've shown that the LAW here is that the budgets have to be balanced. And I've shown that the Givernment here are Democrats

But Nooooo... You Libtards can't even make the smallest effort to even look at that. Easier to pull your 'Talking Points' out and throw baseless accusastions and spew whatever mindless sh*t comes to your tiny tiny minds.

The city government just got smaller by 25%. We'll see how that works out. I am sure Camden NJ, is going to be doing great with all the small government they are going to be getting.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
The city government just got smaller by 25%. We'll see how that works out. I am sure Camden NJ, is going to be doing great with all the small government they are going to be getting.

It's NOT about large or small government - It's BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY.


And I'll tell you how it's going to work out: Canden, NJ will regain it's title as the #1 Crime ridden and violent city in the country back from St. Louis.

I'll repeat my challenge: PROVE it's some scheme to enfoce small government, rather than a broken city budget.
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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It's NOT about large or small government - It's BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY.


And I'll tell you how it's going to work out: Canden, NJ will it's title as the #1 Crime ridden and violent city in the country back from St. Louis.

I'll repeat my challenge: PROVE it's some scheme to enfoce small government, rather than a broken city budget.

The end result is small government. We'll see how it works out for them.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
The end result is small government. We'll see how it works out for them.

Sad, Sad attempt at Deflection.

3rd time: PROVE it's some scheme to enforce small government, rather than a broken city budget.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Sad, Sad attempt at Deflection.

3rd time: PROVE it's some scheme to enforce small government, rather than a broken city budget.

Doesn't matter if it's a scheme or not. The beast is getting starved. That's what "small government" conservatives are advocating. We'll see if it works.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
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That's an even worse attempt at deflection: The "Small Government" movement is about minmimal intervention in individual/business affairs. Not being forced to cut the Police forces in (arguably) the worst city in the country due to not being able to pay their salaries.

But that's OK: At least you have the opportunity to once again deny reality and stick to your Progressive talking points.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
That's an even worse attempt at deflection: The "Small Government" movement is about minmimal intervention in individual/business affairs. Not being forced to cut the Police forces in (arguably) the worst city in the country due to not being able to pay their salaries.

But that's OK: At least you have the opportunity to once again deny reality and stick to your Progressive talking points.

It's never the right small government for the small government crowd.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
it's never the right small government for the small government crowd.

Once again: YOU are the only one talking about small government being the goal here. Therefore:

Choice (1) Prove it's about "Small Government"

Choice (2) Prove Yourself To Be a Lying Sack of Shit


One or the other, buddy
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,205
10,865
136
Christie cut off their finances-$69 million worth. Direct result is police layoffs. Neat political trick-the syncopants will blame the "liberal" city government, praise the so-called fiscally responsible governor and most voters outside of Camden won't give a sh*t because it saves them money and they would never go to Camden anyway.

Long term effect-Camden continues to decline, lose jobs, increased public costs for welfare, medicare, court system and prisons-but people won't see those effects until Christie is long gone on his presidential run.

A big part of the problem is national in scope, with our split between cities and suburbs. Cities-any city-is being strangled when the lion's share of its taxbase flees to the suburbs. An effect of the automobile culture we have never properly addressed.

Don't forget not funding pensions. Easiest target for the kick the can down the road tax cutters. Then when responsible people (Demorcrats, liberals) get back in control and try to properly fund the government that the people voted for and in reality want, they get blamed for raising taxes. It's a win win strategy that Repuplicans have been using for the last couple of decades. The problem is eventually the piper has to be paid. That's exactly why this country is in the shape it's in right now.

Unfortuanately the Repuplican, right wing conservative prapaganda machine is a master at convincing the people that it's all the Democrats fault.

Fortunately, now that they are increasingly in power at least in the majority of state legislatures they will actually have to start to govern instead of bloviate. Once the people get a taste of the draconian cuts to services this type of mentalilty engenders, they will get their asses thrown out come the next election cycle.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
25% cut in government employment. It is smaller government.

Once again: YOU are the only one talking about small government being the goal here. Therefore:

Choice (1) Prove it's about "Small Government"

Choice (2) Prove Yourself To Be a Lying Sack of Shit


One or the other, buddy
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
In a specific situation, the cuts are compelling - fewer services, pay cuts. Someone just arguing 'don't cut!' is reasonably viewed as not being fiscally responsible.

What's missed in the discussion by those on the right is about how the situation got so bad.

Go back decades for the phrase 'starve the beast', and see that it's about a long-term transfer of wealth from everyone else to the top.

The policies cause these bad situations that then leave no choice but to cut, and cut, and cut - but notice, the top isn't 'cutting', becoming much poorer.

No, see the Bernie Sanders speech for some numbers - things like going from 8% to 23.5% of all wealth owned.

The right is blind to this, suckered into a plan to move to oligarchy.

Then we'll halve salaries again, and then again, and services will be cut again, and then again, and each cut will 'have no choice', because that's the plan.

That's where you will see Republicans fight so hard, at any measures to reduce this wealth shift - even small measures, like a 4.6% tax increase on income over $250K.

They waged war when Clinton made the same proposal, with *every single right-wing commentator I could find*, from congressional leaders to pundits to analysts, predicting the Clinton tax hikes on the top 2% would doom the economy to all kinds of problems, low growth, high unemployment - and the opposite happened.

Save234
 
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dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Unfortuanately the Repuplican, right wing conservative prapaganda machine is a master at convincing the people that it's all the Democrats fault.

Fortunately, now that they are increasingly in power at least in the majority of state legislatures they will actually have to start to govern instead of bloviate. Once the people get a taste of the draconian cuts to services this type of mentalilty engenders, they will get their asses thrown out come the next election cycle.

You forget that Americans are dumb in addition to being easily brainwashed.

They will elect President Palin.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
Fortunately, now that they are increasingly in power at least in the majority of state legislatures they will actually have to start to govern instead of bloviate. Once the people get a taste of the draconian cuts to services this type of mentalilty engenders, they will get their asses thrown out come the next election cycle.

NJ is, and has been for nearly all of living memory, a Democratic controlled state.

NJ has a BALANCED BUDGET provision in the State Constitution: When there isn't enough money in State coffers, then budgets and support to local/county government has to be cut BY LAW

How many times do I have to repeat this before you 'tards get it?

Question for you and some of the other posters: Why are you so completely Incapable of viewing these things outside the prism of your own twisted vision of Partisanship?



The City of Camden has been democratically controlled for nearly all of living memory.
The City of Camden has also been a sh*t hole for nearly all of living memory.


Wiki isn't the greatest source, but: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camden,_New_Jersey

Although once a thriving center for manufacturing and industry, Camden is perhaps best known for its struggles with urban dysfunction. Three Camden mayors have been jailed for corruption, the most recent being Milton Milan in 2000. Since 2005 the school system and police department have been operated by the State of New Jersey; the takeover will expire in 2012. In 2009, Camden had the highest crime rate in the U.S. with 2,333 violent crimes per 100,000 people while the national average was 455 per 100,000. Camden public schools spend $17,000 per student per year yet only two thirds of the students graduate. Two out of every five residents are below the national poverty line.


http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/

NJ Senate: Democratically controlled for decades
http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/members/senchart.asp


NJ Assembly: Also Democratically Controlled for Decades
http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/members/aseating.asp


Governor's Office: Chris Christie is a Republican, and started his term this year (2010)

43 Alfred E. Driscoll 1947–1954 - Republican Governor
44 Robert B. Meyner 1954–1962 - Democrat Governor
45 Richard J. Hughes 1962–1970 - Democrat Governor
46 William T. Cahill 1970–1974 - Republican Governor
47 Brendan T. Byrne 1974–1982 - Democrat Governor
48 Thomas H. Kean 1982–1990 - Republican Governor
49 James J. Florio 1990–1994 - Democrat Governor
50 Christine Todd Whitman1 1994–2001 - Republican Governor
51 Donald DiFrancesco2 2001–2002 - Republican Governor
John Farmer Jr. 2002 Republican - Acting Governor
John O. Bennett 2002 Republican - Acting Governor
Richard Codey 2002 - Democrat Acting Governor
52 James E. McGreevey3 2002–2004 - Democrat Governor
53 Richard Codey4 2004–2006 - Democrat Governor
54 Jon S. Corzine 2006-2010 - Democrat Governor
55 Christopher S. Christie 2010- Republican Governor
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
NJ is, and has been for nearly all of living memory, a Democratic controlled state.

NJ has a BALANCED BUDGET provision in the State Constitution: When there isn't enough money in State coffers, then budgets and support to local/county government has to be cut BY LAW

How many times do I have to repeat this before you 'tards get it?

Question for you and some of the other posters: Why are you so completely Incapable of viewing these things outside the prism of your own twisted vision of Partisanship?

The City of Camden has been democratically controlled for nearly all of living memory.
The City of Camden has also been a sh*t hole for nearly all of living memory.

55 Christopher S. Christie 2010- Republican Governor

Posting the same thing over and over will not change the fact that Republican regime is causing the destruction of New Jersey, hell you have to pay for a tunnel that won't be built now even.

Fun times
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
Posting the same thing over and over will not change the fact that Republican regime is causing the destruction of New Jersey, hell you have to pay for a tunnel that won't be built now even.

Fun times


Fun times:

THE STATE SENATE IS DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED (which you removed from my quote)
THE STATE ASSEMBLY IS DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED (which you also removed from my quote)
THE CITY OF CAMDEN IS DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED



Ignoring the Truth over and over doesn't make you right.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Fun times:

THE STATE SENATE IS DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED (which you removed from my quote)
THE STATE ASSEMBLY IS DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED (which you also removed from my quote)
THE CITY OF CAMDEN IS DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED



Ignoring the Truth over and over doesn't make you right.

Same as on the National level, just because Repubs don't have the WH, they still have full control.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
Same as on the National level, just because Repubs don't have the WH, they still have full control.

What!?!?

The Republicans have a slim majority in the Senate.
The Democrats control the House
The Democrats control the White House.

2 out of 3 says the Democrats are in control. Same in NJ.

Now - back on topic:

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010...ew-jersey_8180834.html?boxes=financechannelAP

Camden, NJ, OKs laying off 1-in-4 city workers
Associated Press, 12.03.10, 03:28 PM EST


CAMDEN, N.J. -- The City Council in New Jersey's most impoverished and violent city has agreed on a plan to lay off one-fourth of city government workers, including about half the police department.

Camden's City Council approved the plan unanimously on Thursday despite pleas from workers and residents to find a way to save the jobs.

The layoffs are to be effective Jan. 18. The state Civil Service Commission has already approved them.

There could be fewer layoffs if public employee unions agree to concessions. Retirements also are likely to reduce the number.

Studies consistently find Camden to be among the most impoverished and crime-ridden cities in the country.

With a tiny tax base, the city of nearly 80,000 relies on the state for most of its funding. But the state slashed aid this year because of a fiscal crisis of its own. Communities across the state have laid off workers, with some of the biggest cuts coming in police departments in the largest cities.

This week, Newark laid off 167 officers, and Jersey City announced plans to lay off 82. Meanwhile, Atlantic City hired back 17 of the 60 officers it had let go after the police union agreed to pay cut.

Camden Police Chief Scott Thomson has said he'll reconfigure his department so patrols aren't reduced.

About one-third of Camden's firefighting positions also would be eliminated under the city's plans, which could affect every department in the city government.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Some don't understand the states are greatly affected by the national policies of the last 30 years - as I said, specific decisions can be compelled in 'starve the beast'.

By the time we're in the bad situation, the party doesn't matter, simple arithmetic forces big cuts.