"2nd Most Dangerous City In America" Lays Off Half Of Police/Fire Forces

[werepossum]

NJ is, and has been for nearly all of living memory, a Democratic controlled state.

NJ has a BALANCED BUDGET provision in the State Constitution: When there isn't enough money in State coffers, then budgets and support to local/county government has to be cut BY LAW

How many times do I have to repeat this before you 'tards get it?

Question for you and some of the other posters: Why are you so completely Incapable of viewing these things outside the prism of your own twisted vision of Partisanship?



The City of Camden has been democratically controlled for nearly all of living memory.
The City of Camden has also been a sh*t hole for nearly all of living memory.


Wiki isn't the greatest source, but: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camden,_New_Jersey




http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/

NJ Senate: Democratically controlled for decades
http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/members/senchart.asp


NJ Assembly: Also Democratically Controlled for Decades
http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/members/aseating.asp


Governor's Office: Chris Christie is a Republican, and started his term this year (2010)

43 Alfred E. Driscoll 1947–1954 - Republican Governor
44 Robert B. Meyner 1954–1962 - Democrat Governor
45 Richard J. Hughes 1962–1970 - Democrat Governor
46 William T. Cahill 1970–1974 - Republican Governor
47 Brendan T. Byrne 1974–1982 - Democrat Governor
48 Thomas H. Kean 1982–1990 - Republican Governor
49 James J. Florio 1990–1994 - Democrat Governor
50 Christine Todd Whitman1 1994–2001 - Republican Governor
51 Donald DiFrancesco2 2001–2002 - Republican Governor
John Farmer Jr. 2002 Republican - Acting Governor
John O. Bennett 2002 Republican - Acting Governor
Richard Codey 2002 - Democrat Acting Governor
52 James E. McGreevey3 2002–2004 - Democrat Governor
53 Richard Codey4 2004–2006 - Democrat Governor
54 Jon S. Corzine 2006-2010 - Democrat Governor
55 Christopher S. Christie 2010- Republican Governor

Excellent post, but trying to convince a progressive that the answer isn't government spending more money, even when there IS no more money, is like trying to keep Dave's chin spittle-free when Palin is giving a speech; it just ain't gonna happen. Progressives are constitutionally unable to understand that government at any level might not be able to go to the magic cupboard and just pull out some more tax money, and as long as there still exists one Republican in office, that Republican will be blamed for every societal ill - even those decades old. Good try though, you'd certainly convince any rational person.

Having said that, I suspect that Camden is functionally beyond any policy. Were the perfect rebuilding plan for Camden devised tomorrow, I doubt it could be implemented. The city is simply too broken. I do hope to be proven wrong though.

 

[Greenman]

You are making facts up to fit an accusation you are making up. We see this way too much.

The numbers do not support your attack.

Now, I'm one who has said that the nature of power means that 'the people' will get their interests cut before those in power.

All the right-wing ranting and raving about the need to cut this and that 'waste' tends to do little more than cut the BEST spending, leaving the worst in place.

But 'starve the beast' doesn't cut the good spending just for that reason - it forces good spending cuts.

I haven't seen any numbers suggesting Camden is doing anything like you suggest, cutting the police 'first' for political effect.

Rather, it appears you are just being an apologist for the bad policy, blaming the people who are suffering the effects of far larger policies forcing cuts.

Don't pay attention to the corrupt most wealth in the nation and their policies shifting wealth to the top - instead, make up attacks against the city, and make up the facts!

That's not the way to discuss the issue, but it's common.

We will see a lot more of this - but because of the larger problems, not because of cities 'cutting cops first for effect'. But keep on blaming the cities fiddling, while they burn.

Google orange county, or Vallejo. Read the court transcripts, then come back and apologize.

 

[Craig234]

Google orange county, or Vallejo. Read the court transcripts, then come back and apologize.

Your logic is flawed.

We're talking about Camden; and I discussed the more general city/state/federal situation.

Citing a couple of extremely atypical examples doesn't prove anything about the others.

Of course, as the national problems cut the budgets of cities across the nations, the worse run cities will see bigger problems sooner. Doesn't change anything in my post.

 

[Craig234]

I'm sorry Craig: the Lies and Strawman arguments in this thread have been yours and Senseamp's. I could see where you might have some justification to make these accusations if it were a Republican run state. But New Jersey is not run by the Republican party. The City of Camden, County Government, State Assembly, State Senate, (the Governor is a republican), (Federal) Congressman, (Federal) Senators, and the President are all Democrats. There is a (D) at nearly every level. And they have been for years. NONE of you have shown the slightest bit of proof of this delusion of a right wing scheme. NONE of you have! Not one article. Not one paper. Not a single scrap of anything to back your accusations.

Since there are DEMOCRATS at every level, then wouldn't it be the case where DEMOCRATS have therefore turned their backs on their loyal constituents? After all, DEMOCRATS approved the budget - UNANIMOUSLY. Therefore wouldn't it be the case that DEMOCRATS have done "little more than cut the BEST spending, leaving the worst in place"?? Wouldn't it be a case where the DEMOCRATS have FAILED to protect the people who keep them in office?? Isn't it clearly the case that DEMOCRATS caused the problem??



DEMOCRATS approved the budget - UNANIMOUSLY


SHOW ME where this is some right wing scheme!


Cos the numbers clearly support my attack.

Your saying there's a lie in my post means nothing else gets discussed until that is resolved.

Post your proof - irresponsibly lacking in your post with the accusation - what "lie" there is.

I guarantee you can't find a "lie". You owe an apology for that, which will be all the clearer when you can't defend your post in response to this one.

If you find an error, I'll say thanks. If you can't, you need to apologize even more.

If you are wrongly calling different opinions a 'lie', same.

If you are making such a terrible lie yourself, that precludes discussion of the 'issues'.

 

[ElFenix]

Very important or you will be sore.

thanks, i could use that

 

[Scotteq]

Your saying there's a lie in my post means nothing else gets discussed until that is resolved.

Post your proof - irresponsibly lacking in your post with the accusation - what "lie" there is.

I guarantee you can't find a "lie". You owe an apology for that, which will be all the clearer when you can't defend your post in response to this one.

If you find an error, I'll say thanks. If you can't, you need to apologize even more.

If you are wrongly calling different opinions a 'lie', same.

If you are making such a terrible lie yourself, that precludes discussion of the 'issues'.

You, sir, are making things out to be such that the situation in Camden is due to Conservative/Republican mismanagement... You are responding to attempts to talk about the situation in Camden with anti conservative talking points and trolling. That is the lie. Full stop.

The problem with your statements is they can NOT be true in an environment almost completely run by DEMOCRATS. The 'pubs can't possibly be at fault when they're not running the place!

I've posted ample proof here in this thread. Listed who is in office, and at what levels. Up to and including the results of the UNANIMOUS vote by Democrats to approve the budget that lays these people off.

So - Post YOUR proof that Conservatives/Republicans are somehow at fault for the decline of a city when that City, that County, and that State are run by Democrats.

 

[Craig234]

You, sir, are making things out to be such that the situation in Camden is due to Conservative/Republican mismanagement... You are responding to attempts to talk about the situation in Camden with anti conservative talking points and trolling. That is the lie. Full stop.

I am saying that right-wing policies at the national level have led to economic problems that affect the states and cities, lowering their budgets, so that the cutting of police is a forced cut, not necessarily 'mismanagement' by the city and state - if there is mismanagement at that level, the national economic problems worsen it.

That is not wrong - and it's even less a "lie". You are irresponsible and offensive to say otherwise, and the first thing before any other discussion is your apology.

 

[Scotteq]

I am saying that right-wing policies at the national level have led to economic problems that affect the states and cities, lowering their budgets, so that the cutting of police is a forced cut, not necessarily 'mismanagement' by the city and state - if there is mismanagement at that level, the national economic problems worsen it.

That is not wrong - and it's even less a "lie". You are irresponsible and offensive to say otherwise, and the first thing before any other discussion is your apology.

Another misnomer, since the Democrats have controlled both houses and the Presidency. Not to mention that NJ's Senators and Congresspeople are also Democrats. Tell you what: Since you seem to be unclear as to which party is responsible here, how abuot you have a nice chat with ROBERT ANDREWS, Congressman, NJ First District, DEMOCRAT After all, this is the guy who is responsible for the district that Camden is located in. What's that? The Congressman not good enough!?!? how about DANA REDD, US Senator, DEMOCRAT

Beginning to End: Democrats. Therefore there are no "Right Wing" policies.

So: Any time you feel like apologizing for your misrepresentations, feel free to do so.


Alternatively, if you keep running away like that I can link you some nice stretching excercises.

 

[Craig234]

Another misnomer, since the Democrats have controlled both houses and the Presidency. Not to mention that NJ's Senators and Congresspeople are also Democrats.

Beginning to End: Democrats. Therefore there are no "Right Wing" policies.

So: Any time you feel like apologizing for your misrepresentations, feel free to do so.

The right-wing economic policies have been enacted overall the last 30 years, primarily driven by Republicans, with partial Democratic support.

For example, Reagan's tax cuts from a top marginal rate of 70% to 39.6%; or the Republican-driven and Clinton-supported repeal of Glass-Steagal, and many more.

The 'deregulatory' right-wing approach under far-right Alan Greenspan for decades, with strong Republican support, that played a crucial role to the housing bubble and the Wall Street disaster, while they increased their share of profits in the economy from 10-15% to 40%, was all right-wing policy as well. That has been the pattern these 30 years with an unprecedented shift of wealth to the top.

We're done here until you apologize, other than to note that now that you have been corrected and your statement can no longer be 'error', you are a liar at this time.

 

[Scotteq]

The right-wing economic policies have been enacted overall the last 30 years, primarily driven by Republicans, with partial Democratic support.

For example, Reagan's tax cuts from a top marginal rate of 70% to 39.6%; or the Republican-driven and Clinton-supported repeal of Glass-Steagal, and many more.

The 'deregulatory' right-wing approach under far-right Alan Greenspan for decades, with strong Republican support, that played a crucial role to the housing bubble and the Wall Street disaster, while they increased their share of profits in the economy from 10-15% to 40%, was all right-wing policy as well. That has been the pattern these 30 years with an unprecedented shift of wealth to the top.

We're done here until you apologize, other than to note that now that you have been corrected and your statement can no longer be 'error', you are a liar at this time.

Dude - What part of "New Jersey Is Not, and Has Not Been For Most of Living Memory, a Republican State" is so hard for you to understand!?!?

Secondly: FEDERAL tax cuts have no impact on the State of New Jersey's budgets, except insofar as we get back even less than we pay. Clue: FEDERAL TAXES GO TO THE FEDERAL BUDGET NJ gets back only 65cents on the dollar: http://www.nemw.org/index.php/new-jersey The State of NJ collects it's own taxes. Tables and rates set, of course, by the DEMOCRATS who run this state.

YOU are the one that needs to apologize for your lies and misrepresentations.

 

[werepossum]

Another misnomer, since the Democrats have controlled both houses and the Presidency. Not to mention that NJ's Senators and Congresspeople are also Democrats. Tell you what: Since you seem to be unclear as to which party is responsible here, how abuot you have a nice chat with ROBERT ANDREWS, Congressman, NJ First District, DEMOCRAT After all, this is the guy who is responsible for the district that Camden is located in. What's that? The Congressman not good enough!?!? how about DANA REDD, US Senator, DEMOCRAT

Beginning to End: Democrats. Therefore there are no "Right Wing" policies.

So: Any time you feel like apologizing for your misrepresentations, feel free to do so.


Alternatively, if you keep running away like that I can link you some nice stretching excercises.

You have to understand that to Craig, "right wing" starts slightly to the left of Castro. 90% taxation equals centre-right in Craigland. With that said you can see his point (and perhaps recommend for him a nice hat.)