2GB or 4GB for my next build?

[Imyourzero]

I was looking at the G.Skill and Geil 4GB kits on Newegg and can't decide if it's worth it. I'll be building a C2D rig soon and will probably be seeking advice on various component choices. My dilemma right now is deciding if I should go ahead and get 4GB in anticipation of Vista and future games, or stick with 2GB for now and upgrade later.

I'll be installing XP at first since 1) I already have a copy of XP Pro and 2) I'm not overly eager to switch to Vista right now, especially if it means purchasing a copy (if I was buying something like a Dell that came preloaded with Vista, I wouldn't mind to go ahead with the transition).

I know I won't be able to take advantage of all 4GB in XP. The thing that would make the most sense would probably be to buy a 2x1GB kit for now and add an identical kit when I do move to Vista, but I don't really like the thought of running 4 modules.

So would it be smarter to purchase a 2GB kit now and sell it at a loss when I upgrade to Vista + a 4GB kit? Or should I go ahead with the 4GB kit now, knowing I'll be set for Vista but also knowing it's not an optimal configuration for XP? Thanks!

 

[zephyrprime]

Just upgrade to vista now. Since your builind a new system anyway, now is the most convenient time to do it. You have to consider the worth of your own time. It takes more time to install 2 operating systems and load all your software. Just get 4GB and make the jump to vista in one hop.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

I'D still go with 2gb...

 

[secretanchitman]

2GB...4GB sticks are slow in timings and i have yet to see one with decent timings/speeds...(only ddr2-667)

 

[Imyourzero]

Hmm, I guess I'll stick with 2GB then. zephyrprime, I'd consider going ahead with the upgrade to Vista but one of the main reasons I want to wait is to (hopefully) avoid buying it. My college gave me a licensed copy of XP Pro a couple of years ago for free, and I'm hoping they'll do the same with Vista. I planned to dual boot XP/Vista anyway, so installing it later won't be a big deal.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: secretanchitman
2GB...4GB sticks are slow in timings and i have yet to see one with decent timings/speeds...(only ddr2-667)

A 4GB kit is 2 2GB sticks and they are available at timings as high as you're willing to pay for.

 

[chizow]

I'd go with 4GB, especially if you're going to upgrade your GPU/monitor and running games at higher resolutions. You might really be surprised by how much memory some of the more visually impressive DX9 games can use. I know I was when I saw Dark Messiah using 1.6-1.9GB and I started seeing frames drops hitting the page file.

I've debated the upgrade myself and if I had to do it over again, I would've just gotten 4 GB of slower/cheaper RAM instead of 2GB of pricy expensive RAM. If you're going to get a C2D most boards don't require you to run fixed ratio or 1:1 so you can run memory at whatever you like without affecting your OC. Sure running higher memory speeds with tighter timings will help, but more memory will provide a more enjoyable experience in the long run, especially under Vista with super fetch.

I almost got 4 GB of that Super Talent but the Buffalo Sticks went back in stock for a nice price so I pulled the trigger on those. If they play well with my Ballistix after they get back from RMA, I may just run all 4GB although 4GB of Super Talent would cost about 1/2 as much without too much hit in performance.

 

[Imyourzero]

So are you suggesting 4GB even if it's possible that I'll be using XP for the next few months? I mean no one can really predict what will happen to memory prices and I'd hate to purchase 4GB now, not even be able to take advantage of it, and have the prices drop even further by the time I move to Vista.

Also, I'd want to run 2x2GB sticks vs 4x1GB sticks and the only 4GB kits I've seen on Newegg are from G.Skill and Geil. And since not nearly as many people are running those as opposed to Corsair and the other mainstays, I'd be a bit iffy about purchasing them blindly.

Speaking of the Buffalo Firestix, I was just looking at that thread in HotDeals. I wonder how it compares to the Crucial Ballistix D9. It certainly seems like a good deal...

 

[chizow]

Ya, you wouldn't get the full 4GB in XP32, you'd only get 3.25GB or so. Still that would've been enough for me not to hit the page file @ 1920 w/ 4x AA.

If you were going to go with a 2 x 2GB kit, you'd definitely want to make the move to 4GB now rather than later. Memory prices may go up or down but chances are you'll take less of a loss going 2 x 2GB now vs. 2 x 1GB, selling them and buying a new 2 x 2GB kit down the road.

 

[jim1976]

With DDR3 memory on the horizon I wouldn't buy 4gb right now..I think it's overkill for the vast majority of applications right now..
Someone might say that the waiting game is not right.. I agree but in this case there's absolutely no reason for 4Gb right now..Too much money for ram w/o any reason...

It really depends though on how often you're upgrading..

 

[chizow]

Sorry, but DDR3 isn't something I'd consider holding off on an upgrade for. $800 2GB kits and a mobo/chipset upgrade for what? A 10-15% increase in performance and a whole new can of worms? Idk, just tossing out numbers based on past experience.

4GB might be overkill, but 3GB can be easily utilized in XP or Vista. Problem is you're going to typically run your RAM in multiples of 2x if you want to run in Dual Channel.

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: chizow
Sorry, but DDR3 isn't something I'd consider holding off on an upgrade for. $800 2GB kits and a mobo/chipset upgrade for what? A 10-15% increase in performance and a whole new can of worms? Idk, just tossing out numbers based on past experience.

4GB might be overkill, but 3GB can be easily utilized in XP or Vista. Problem is you're going to typically run your RAM in multiples of 2x if you want to run in Dual Channel.

Sry but how do you know that? Do you have benches showing the performance differences between DDR3 on a future chipset and memory controller compared to the existing ones? And if you can save some money today and upgrade tomorrow why shouldn't you follow that route?

*edit I agree with you that probably ddr3 won't be such a big deal with dual cores.. It might be faster enough though for quad cores and help them utilize their power better And if we go by the logic of minimal gains in ram then we shouldn't upgrade our ram if at least 5 yrs wouldn't past..

 

[Blain]

2

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: jim1976

Originally posted by: chizow
Sorry, but DDR3 isn't something I'd consider holding off on an upgrade for. $800 2GB kits and a mobo/chipset upgrade for what? A 10-15% increase in performance and a whole new can of worms? Idk, just tossing out numbers based on past experience.

4GB might be overkill, but 3GB can be easily utilized in XP or Vista. Problem is you're going to typically run your RAM in multiples of 2x if you want to run in Dual Channel.

Sry but how do you know that? Do you have benches showing the performance differences between DDR3 on a future chipset and memory controller compared to the existing ones? And if you can save some money today and upgrade tomorrow why shouldn't you follow that route?

Just look at DDR to DDR2. Or read some motherboard reviews. If you look at the CPU/memory/GPU subsystems its pretty clear that the memory subsystem is the weakest link and DDR3 isn't going to make it much better (might make it worst). Thats why we have to resort to synthetic/theoretical testing to see any real world difference between the different chipsets and memory speed/timings. Thats why many current mobos/MCPs have trouble running fast RAM with fast timings stably.

There's some discussion about it in some of the Penryn and next gen articles here on AT. Basically they're running out of real estate running all those traces from the CPU to the MCP to the memory modules, so the memory subsystem is only going to be even more of a bottle-neck in the future. No one's pushing DDR3 except for RAM makers and maybe mainboard makers (because they want your money).

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: chizow
Just look at DDR to DDR2. Or read some motherboard reviews. If you look at the CPU/memory/GPU subsystems its pretty clear that the memory subsystem is the weakest link and DDR3 isn't going to make it much better (might make it worst). Thats why we have to resort to synthetic/theoretical testing to see any real world difference between the different chipsets and memory speed/timings. Thats why many current mobos/MCPs have trouble running fast RAM with fast timings stably.

That's perfectly clear m8. I wasn't born yesterday and I am aware of all these..
The fact is that 4GB right now is a total waste of money... Unless someone wants to keep his system for a long time and doesn't have any upgrade plans for the next 1.5-2 yrs .. But even in this case it's much wiser to buy 2 gb right now and wait for prices to drop more and buy another 2 gb when you will actually have the need for them.. WTF do you need 4gb today unless you're a pro?

There's some discussion about it in some of the Penryn and next gen articles here on AT. Basically they're running out of real estate running all those traces from the CPU to the MCP to the memory modules, so the memory subsystem is only going to be even more of a bottle-neck in the future. No one's pushing DDR3 except for RAM makers and maybe mainboard makers (because they want your money).

Excuse me but I've heard that a thousand times till now.. I'm sry but with the picture not so clear about the performance of AMD/Intel multi cores in the next months, I won't jump to easy conclusions. OTOH I won't rush on jumping to a marginally faster PC if that will be the case.. But I won't spend money going to 4gb w/o any particular reason for the time being..

 

[sjandrewbsme]

Originally posted by: jim1976
With DDR3 memory on the horizon I wouldn't buy 4gb right now..I think it's overkill for the vast majority of applications right now..
Someone might say that the waiting game is not right.. I agree but in this case there's absolutely no reason for 4Gb right now..Too much money for ram w/o any reason...

I agree.

 

[secretanchitman]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn

Originally posted by: secretanchitman
2GB...4GB sticks are slow in timings and i have yet to see one with decent timings/speeds...(only ddr2-667)

A 4GB kit is 2 2GB sticks and they are available at timings as high as you're willing to pay for.

touche...just saw exactly what you said.

 

[DaveBC]

I went with 3 ..... it's in the sig