26 Palestinian Terrorists Leave Bethlehem Church
- Thread starter Texmaster
- Start date
- Oct 9, 1999
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<<They had absolutely NO right to use a holy place as a shield.>>
Actually, the tradition of Sanctuary goes back, at the very least, to medieval times:
"Within the abbey walls, the Church ruled supreme. Secular law did not apply, which is where the tradition of "sanctuary" came from: a malefactor (real or unjustly accused) could claim sanctuary from the church. While he remained within the abbey walls, no man could raise a hand against him, and he could not be removed against his will. Of course, this wouldn't prevent the monks from encouraging him to confess and repent his sins, nor would they hesitate to intercede on behalf of justice."
Some scholars say it goes back much, much further in time than that:
"The tradition of sanctuary dates back to ancient Palestine, where six cities were designated as places where those accused of crimes were assured a fair trial. The most sacred sanctuary within the Temple at Jerusalem, called the Holy of Holies because it housed the ark of the covenant, could be visited only once a year by the high priest for the purpose of interceding for the people. Eventually, the idea of sanctuary was generalized, becoming both the part of the church where the altar is placed as well as a place of asylum."
Note the all important phrase in the first quote, "real or unjustly accused" in the first quote. However you or I or the State of Israel or the IDF judge these armed Palestinians, whatever the truth of their crimes, they had a VERY REAL AND LONG ESTABLISHED and extremely hallowed and sanctified right to the sanctuary they sought.
Actually, the tradition of Sanctuary goes back, at the very least, to medieval times:
"Within the abbey walls, the Church ruled supreme. Secular law did not apply, which is where the tradition of "sanctuary" came from: a malefactor (real or unjustly accused) could claim sanctuary from the church. While he remained within the abbey walls, no man could raise a hand against him, and he could not be removed against his will. Of course, this wouldn't prevent the monks from encouraging him to confess and repent his sins, nor would they hesitate to intercede on behalf of justice."
Some scholars say it goes back much, much further in time than that:
"The tradition of sanctuary dates back to ancient Palestine, where six cities were designated as places where those accused of crimes were assured a fair trial. The most sacred sanctuary within the Temple at Jerusalem, called the Holy of Holies because it housed the ark of the covenant, could be visited only once a year by the high priest for the purpose of interceding for the people. Eventually, the idea of sanctuary was generalized, becoming both the part of the church where the altar is placed as well as a place of asylum."
Note the all important phrase in the first quote, "real or unjustly accused" in the first quote. However you or I or the State of Israel or the IDF judge these armed Palestinians, whatever the truth of their crimes, they had a VERY REAL AND LONG ESTABLISHED and extremely hallowed and sanctified right to the sanctuary they sought.
I have a hard time believing that palestinians, who regard us christians as "infidels,' would have a valid claim to santuary. Just an observation.
<< <<They had absolutely NO right to use a holy place as a shield.>>
Actually, the <STRONG>tradition of Sanctuary </STRONG>goes back, at the very least, to <a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.threenorns.co.uk/abbey.html" target=blank>medieval times</A>:
"Within the abbey walls, the Church ruled supreme. Secular law did not apply, which is where the tradition of "sanctuary" came from: <STRONG>a malefactor (real or unjustly accused) could claim sanctuary from the church</STRONG>. <STRONG>While he remained within the abbey walls, no man could raise a hand against him, and he could not be removed against his will</STRONG>. Of course, this wouldn't prevent the monks from encouraging him to confess and repent his sins, nor would they hesitate to intercede on behalf of justice."
Some scholars say it goes back much, <a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.johndoan.com/recordings/wayfarer/08.html" target=blank>much further in time</A> than that:
"<STRONG>The tradition of sanctuary dates back to ancient Palestine</STRONG>, where six cities were designated as places where those accused of crimes were assured a fair trial. <STRONG>The most sacred sanctuary within the Temple at Jerusalem</STRONG>, called the Holy of Holies because it housed the ark of the covenant, could be visited only once a year by the high priest for the purpose of interceding for the people. Eventually, the idea of sanctuary was generalized, becoming both the part of the church where the altar is placed as well as a place of asylum."
Note the all important phrase in the first quote, <STRONG>"real or unjustly accused" </STRONG>in the first quote. However you or I or the State of Israel or the IDF judge these armed Palestinians, whatever the truth of their crimes, they had a VERY REAL AND LONG ESTABLISHED and extremely hallowed and sanctified right to the sanctuary they sought. >>
Perknose They are ARMED and they are shooting FROM the church at Israeli soldiers!!!!! Sanctuary my ass.
How dare you try to justify terrorists making a base out of a holy place :|
Actually the 26 that came out...weren't they civilians and some policemen? Dunno if I can classify them all as terrorists...
<< Actually the 26 that came out...weren't they civilians and some policemen? Dunno if I can classify them all as terrorists... >>
You are right. These may not be part of the terrorists held up inside.
- Oct 9, 1999
- 46,791
- 10,425
- 147
<<How dare you try to justify terrorists making a base out of a holy place>>
Assmaster, you're up your own assumption again, without a f*sking paddle, a clue, or enough clearisil to see you through. :|
You quoted my entire post in your reply. I'll make this one assumption myself: you actually read and comprehended it. In that case, you better damn well quote the words I wrote which support your contention that I "justify terrorists making a base out of a holy place."
Put that quote in your next post, sport, the very words or nothing at all, or be man enough to admit you were wrong.
Assmaster, you're up your own assumption again, without a f*sking paddle, a clue, or enough clearisil to see you through. :|
You quoted my entire post in your reply. I'll make this one assumption myself: you actually read and comprehended it. In that case, you better damn well quote the words I wrote which support your contention that I "justify terrorists making a base out of a holy place."
Put that quote in your next post, sport, the very words or nothing at all, or be man enough to admit you were wrong.
datalink7
Lifer
- Jan 23, 2001
- 16,765
- 6
- 81
<< <<How dare you try to justify terrorists making a base out of a holy place>>
<STRONG>Assmaster, you're up your own ass</STRONG>umption again, without a f*sking paddle, a clue, or enough clearisil to see you through. :|
You quoted my entire post in your reply. I'll make this one assumption myself: you actually read and comprehended it. In that case, you better damn well quote the words I wrote which support your contention that I "justify terrorists making a base out of a holy place."
Put that quote in your next post, sport, the very words or nothing at all, <STRONG>or be man enough to admit you were wrong.
</STRONG> >>
Actually, I have to agree with Tex on this one. If they had claimed sanctuary, your statement might hold true. But they didn't. They camped out and used it as a military stronghold. There IS a differeance, and what they did was not right.
Perknose:
<< Put that quote in your next post, sport, the very words or nothing at all, or be man enough to admit you were wrong. >>
I don't recall the part where it says you can BLOW THE FRIGGIN' LOCK OFF OF DOORS as part of the sanctuary process. Is hiding behind clergy and continuing to shoot at IDF part of your concept of sanctuary as well?
But, if you are a GUTLESS RAT BASTARD TERRORIST PILE OF HUMAN FILTH, it must sound like a good idea.
Rock On TEX!
<< Put that quote in your next post, sport, the very words or nothing at all, or be man enough to admit you were wrong. >>
I don't recall the part where it says you can BLOW THE FRIGGIN' LOCK OFF OF DOORS as part of the sanctuary process. Is hiding behind clergy and continuing to shoot at IDF part of your concept of sanctuary as well?
But, if you are a GUTLESS RAT BASTARD TERRORIST PILE OF HUMAN FILTH, it must sound like a good idea.
Rock On TEX!
<< <<How dare you try to justify terrorists making a base out of a holy place>>
<STRONG>Assmaster, you're up your own ass</STRONG>umption again, without a f*sking paddle, a clue, or enough clearisil to see you through. :|
You quoted my entire post in your reply. I'll make this one assumption myself: you actually read and comprehended it. In that case, you better damn well quote the words I wrote which support your contention that I "justify terrorists making a base out of a holy place."
Put that quote in your next post, sport, the very words or nothing at all, <STRONG>or be man enough to admit you were wrong.
</STRONG> >>
Um...I'm bored...gonna use the little bit of beginner logic I know
Didn't you do it here:
<<They had absolutely NO right to use a holy place as a shield.>>
Actually, the tradition of Sanctuary goes back, at the very least, to medieval times
You refuted his "They had no right."
"It is not the case that they had no right" is equivalent to "They had some right" e.g. "They had some right to use a holy place as a shield."
Actually, I have to agree with Tex on this one. If they had claimed sanctuary, your statement might hold true. But they didn't. They camped out and used it as a military stronghold. There IS a differeance, and what they did was not right.
yup, i believe you could say they were desecrating a holy place
yup, i believe you could say they were desecrating a holy place
I always thought that sanctuary had to be granted also. Blowing the locks off of doors and carrying weapons inside is not the concept of sanctuary that I have.
In this case the Palestinians are using a church as a place to hide only because they knew the Israelis would not attack it. Unless the priests inside granted them sanctuary and they laid down their weapons before going inside they are invaders of that site.
In this case the Palestinians are using a church as a place to hide only because they knew the Israelis would not attack it. Unless the priests inside granted them sanctuary and they laid down their weapons before going inside they are invaders of that site.
Bulk Beef
Diamond Member
- Aug 14, 2001
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Perknose, do you seriously think they were seeking sanctuary? They knew full well what they were doing. Do you think they didn't know that the whole world was watching that church? Do you think they didn't realize what people's reactions would be everytime an Israeli soldier took a shot in the general direction of that church? Sanctuary? Sanctuary my ass. It was a stage show.
Interesting read perknose but I dont think that it pertains to this situation. I could perhaps see some legitimate basis if they had claimed "sanctuary", but I dont believe that to be the case (not that I know all the facts, but...).
The fact that israel killed 5-6 of the gunmen inside by sniper fire indicates to me that they were posing a threat to the israeli soldiers, in a direct fashion. If thats the case I dont see how they can claim "sanctuary."
The fact that israel killed 5-6 of the gunmen inside by sniper fire indicates to me that they were posing a threat to the israeli soldiers, in a direct fashion. If thats the case I dont see how they can claim "sanctuary."
hehe, i like texmaster's indignant "how *dare* you" anybody that listens to loveline will appreciate it as well
Why didn't the IDF just level the Church? Becuase there were innocent Chrsaitian Civilians in there? I bet if it were a Mosque with innocent Muslims in there they would have.
probably would not have been the best PR to go down as the party that destroyed the church of nativity.
anybody that listens to loveline will appreciate it as well Why didn't the IDF just level the Church? Becuase there were innocent Chrsaitian Civilians in there? I bet if it were a Mosque with innocent Muslims in there they would have.
probably would not have been the best PR to go down as the party that destroyed the church of nativity.
<< <<How dare you try to justify terrorists making a base out of a holy place>>
<STRONG>Assmaster, you're up your own ass</STRONG>umption again, without a f*sking paddle, a clue, or enough clearisil to see you through. :| >>
LOL So I have your attetnion.
BTW, "Assmaster" is officially protected under the Red Dawn Inc. label. You must get permission to use it.
<< You quoted my entire post in your reply. I'll make this one assumption myself: you actually read and comprehended it. In that case, you better damn well quote the words I wrote which support your contention that I "justify terrorists making a base out of a holy place."
Put that quote in your next post, sport, the very words or nothing at all, <STRONG>or be man enough to admit you were wrong.
</STRONG> >>
I quoted the whole thing because separating the BS would only make it STINK more.
You are WRONG. No WHERE in ANYTHING you quoted does it say Sanctuary inviolves using a church as a fort and shooting FROM IT.
But lets take the definition of Sanctuary: A place of refuge or asylum
Please, show us all where it says that a Sanctuary also includes holding up in a church and shooting at soldiers you MORON.
Not to mention they didn't even CLAIM Sanctuary.
<< don't recall the part where it says you can BLOW THE FRIGGIN' LOCK OFF OF DOORS as part of the sanctuary process. Is hiding behind clergy and continuing to shoot at IDF part of your concept of sanctuary as well? >>
AMEN JIMBO!!
Hey Perknose Its YOU who are the gutless COWARD who screwed the pooch and didn't consider what the Palestinians were actually DOING inside the church.
You being the Gutless Coward that you are, I don't expect you to be a MAN and admit you were wrong.
Your bleeding heart STUPIDITY clouds your judgement yet AGAIN.
<< Perknose, do you seriously think they were seeking sanctuary? They knew full well what they were doing. Do you think they didn't know that the whole world was watching that church? Do you think they didn't realize what people's reactions would be everytime an Israeli soldier took a shot in the general direction of that church? Sanctuary? Sanctuary my ass. It was a stage show. >>
Here's something I wonder about...are people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip actually aware that the entire world's media are on their side?
I do know a couple Palestinians who have been all over the West Bank and Gaza Strip but we very rarely talk politics by mutual agreement...
<<
Perknose They are ARMED and they are shooting FROM the church at Israeli soldiers!!!!! Sanctuary my ass.
How dare you try to justify terrorists making a base out of a holy place :| >>
Exactly.
- Oct 9, 1999
- 46,791
- 10,425
- 147
Big brave boy, eh, TinyTex, from the olympian safety of your keyboard? Well, despite my current avatar, I'm no girlie-girl you can attempt to bully, as you did to one female member here, until the Mods warned you in no uncertain language to stop.
Gutless Coward, eh? Well, let's just see, between you and me, who's the GUTLESS COWARD in real life. I am:
David Perkins
5242 Old Easton Rd.
Doylestown, PA 18901
215-766-1284
Stand up and be counted, or slink away under the cowardly cover of a thousand slimy excuses, you mewling little puke. I dare you to come forth! We'll see. WE WILL ALL SEE WHETHER YOU HAVE THE GUTS AND INTEGRITY TO REVEAL YOURSELF.
Let's have a meet and greet, in real life, so you can look me in the eye and call me a coward, OK? I'll even come down to Texas, within this year, and I promise to come unarmed.
But, say, Tex, aren't you the guy who sh*t stained your Dockerssh*t when a WOMAN ripped open your car door to berate you? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
You're a red faced, blowhard bully, grown cocky and confident from behind your keyboard. But. like all bullies, you've got a yellow streak a mile wide. I'm calling you out, you poultry based by product!
Until you have the guts to reveal yourself, I OWN YOU!!
Gutless Coward, eh? Well, let's just see, between you and me, who's the GUTLESS COWARD in real life. I am:
David Perkins
5242 Old Easton Rd.
Doylestown, PA 18901
215-766-1284
Stand up and be counted, or slink away under the cowardly cover of a thousand slimy excuses, you mewling little puke. I dare you to come forth! We'll see. WE WILL ALL SEE WHETHER YOU HAVE THE GUTS AND INTEGRITY TO REVEAL YOURSELF.
Let's have a meet and greet, in real life, so you can look me in the eye and call me a coward, OK? I'll even come down to Texas, within this year, and I promise to come unarmed.
But, say, Tex, aren't you the guy who sh*t stained your Dockerssh*t when a WOMAN ripped open your car door to berate you? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
You're a red faced, blowhard bully, grown cocky and confident from behind your keyboard. But. like all bullies, you've got a yellow streak a mile wide. I'm calling you out, you poultry based by product!
Until you have the guts to reveal yourself, I OWN YOU!!
datalink7
Lifer
- Jan 23, 2001
- 16,765
- 6
- 81
<< Big brave boy, eh, TinyTex, from the olympian safety of your keyboard? Well, despite my current avatar, I'm no girlie-girl you can attempt to bully, as you did to one female member here, until the Mods warned you in no uncertain language to stop.
Gutless Coward, eh? Well, let's just see, between you and me, who's the GUTLESS COWARD in real life. I am:
David Perkins
5242 Old Easton Rd.
Doylestown, PA 18901
215-766-1284
Stand up and be counted, or slink away under the cowardly cover of a thousand slimy excuses, you mewling little puke. I dare you to come forth! We'll see. WE WILL ALL SEE WHETHER YOU HAVE THE GUTS AND INTEGRITY TO REVEAL YOURSELF.
Let's have a meet and greet, in real life, so you can look me in the eye and call me a coward, OK? I'll even come down to Texas, within this year, and I promise to come unarmed.
But, say, Tex, aren't you the guy who <a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://subscriber.anandtech.com/arcmessageview.cfm?catid=38&threadid=702120&highlight_key=y" target=blank>sh*t stained your Dockers</A>sh*t when a WOMAN ripped open your car door to berate you? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
You're a red faced, blowhard bully, grown cocky and confident from behind your keyboard. But. like all bullies, you've got a yellow streak a mile wide. I'm calling you out, you poultry based by product!
Until you have the guts to reveal yourself, I OWN YOU!! >>
I don't know whether to say "lol" or "wtf?"
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