256MB DDR 2100: Samsung double sided vs. Elixir single. Read info here

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by immortalis, Sep 2, 2002.

  1. immortalis

    immortalis Senior member

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    I got a few sticks of PNY branded 256MB DDR ram.
    These are the complete info's I was able to assemble:


    Manufacturer: PNY
    Certified Module: No
    Module ID: PNY053
    Part #: 6432WKDXA8G09TWK-OX0
    MB: 256MB
    Config: 32M x 64
    DRAM: Elixir
    DRAM Part #: N2DS25680AT-75B Rev. A
    PCB Part: PD88R1 Rev. 2.1
    PCB_layer_count: 6 Layer
    Module Info: Unbuffered, NON-ECC, 266mhz, DDR DIMM
    Cas Latency: 2.5
    Assembly Type: Single Board/Single Sided
    Low Profile: YES
    Actual Height: 31.85


    Manufacturer: PNY
    Module ID: PNY052
    Certified Module: No
    Part #: 6432ZKDXA4G17TWK-OF1
    MB: 256MB
    Config: 32M x 64
    DRAM: Samsung
    DRAM Part #: K4H280838C-TCB0 Rev. C
    PCB Part: M381L3313T1 Rev. 1.0
    PCB_layer_count: 6 Layer
    Module Info: Unbuffered, NON-ECC, 266mhz, DDR DIMM
    Cas Latency: 2.5
    Assembly Type: Single Board/Double Sided
    Low Profile: YES
    Actual Height: 31.80

    The Samsung stick has 16 chips and the elixir has only 8.

    Contrary to many I am not going to overclock, so speed is not an issue for me (both sticks are not certified anyhow, whatever that means).
    But I want to use as much of this memory on a motherboard as possible/stable.

    I read that most motherboards can only support 3 sticks and are unstable with four.

    Now the question I have is in regards of single vs double sided:

    Which one of these is generally better for the maximum memory?

    Isn't it true that double sided sticks impose more physical drag (in terms of capacity and inductivity) on the signals?

    Please knowledged opinions only, I read through zillion of guesses and believes via google.
     
  2. immortalis

    immortalis Senior member

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  3. JEFF68005

    JEFF68005 Member

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    >> Now the question I have is in regards of single vs double sided:

    Which one of these is generally better for the maximum memory?

    Isn't it true that double sided sticks impose more physical drag (in terms of capacity and inductivity) on the signals?

    Please knowledged opinions only, I read through zillion of guesses and believes via google.
    <<

    ME Knowledgable? NOT !

    That said, **I DO KNOW the following. ***

    I bought a Gigabyte's GA-8IEXP Motherboard with three DDR memory slots.

    The manual says that the third slot has limitations.
    If all single sided memory, then I can use all three slots ie 3 times 256=768
    If double sided sticks then only two slots may be used because that mb shares memory banks between slot 2 & 3 therefore the third slot is useless.
    HOWEVER if one is double sided and the remaining two are single sided then Double/single/single works.

    Therefore, it was necessary for me to use a single sided memory in the third slot.

    Source of my info is a chart for my motherboard on page 11 of the manual. At least, you can see why I say what I say:
    Gigabyte Manual can be obtained here

    Here is the PDF download

    Now let me help you out the wrong way further.
    I bought 2 sticks of PNY PC2100 memory at Best Buy a few weeks ago with a rebate.
    Just looking at them, I would assume them to be double sided.
    I had my brother look at them. He is an engineer at a bakery. Deals with chips on the bakery machines. He says someone was lazy and placed the individual chips in both sides of the memory stick board, but in fact the stick would be read as single sided chips by the motherboard. Since I only had two chips, I just dropped them in and had 512 mem. I did the Office Depot PNY 256 DDR upgrade rebate last week.
    I moved one of the chips bought at Best Buy to the third slot and installed the new purchase in the first slot. Voila !!! 768!!
    Therefore at least two of those sticks are being read as single sided even tho I can see chips on both sides of the memory sticks ... go figure.
     
  4. Salvador

    Salvador Diamond Member

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    I bought 4 sticks of this PNY DDR (2 @ BB and 2 @ OD). 2 of the sticks have Samsung chips and 2 have Infineon chips. I'm going to return 2 sticks to BB. Which ones should I return?

    I know that I should probably keep both of the same type if I want to OC the RAM, but which RAM should I keep? Infineon or the Samsung? If one or the other, why? I'm thinking it's a toss up, but I've heard better things about the Samsung chipped RAM.

    TIA,

    Sal
     
  5. Copperpipe

    Copperpipe Member

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    I tried a PNY 256 MB DDR which had only 4 Infineon chips on one side, and this stick could not even run stable at 133 mhz on my Soltek SL75DRV4. My slower Centon 256 DDR, by comparison, worked fine at the fastest memory timings at 133 mhz.

    If you are planning to overclock, you should probably buy something better like genuine/original Samsung or Crucial.
     
  6. immortalis

    immortalis Senior member

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    Thanks for the info. I'm just beginning to understand that somehow the "banks" referred to are the banks inside the DDR.

    JEFF68005: thanks for that link, that was very interesting!
    Interesting is also the issue with the single sided double sideds.
    How many chips are on the PNY PC2100 memory from Best Buy?

    From what I gather (I kept lookin & searching) it seems to be better for me to get all the single sided Elixier boards and return the double sided Samsungs.

     
  7. IRISH4LIFE

    IRISH4LIFE Member

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    Well here is another example of memory usage. I originally had (2) 256MB Mushkin Cool dimms in my computer. I decided
    to get some more ram with the PNY Best Buy deal. I have an Asus P4S333 Motherboard with 3 dimm slots. I get the new PNY memory
    which is single sided the mushkin is double sided. I put the PNY in the 3rd slot run the computer and my games crash right after loading.
    I got a memory tester that loads up on a floppy and run it, as soon as it hit past the 512 MB it starts reporting errors ( which I assume would me that once it went through the 512MB of Mushkin ram it hit the PNY and started reporting errors.) I decided to run the PNY by itself and it ran fine with no errors (in the first dimm slot) so I added the mushkin back to dimm 2 and 3 and everything runs great! No errors or crashes. It seems that my system wanted the single sided dimm before the 2 double sided ones.
    Hope this was informative.
    :confused:
     
  8. JEFF68005

    JEFF68005 Member

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    Let me add that I have no interest in overclocking, so all my comments are without consideration for/about overclocking.

    The disclosure in my previous message in this thread still holds and reference to the same links for my board. I'm not expert in this stuff, but I do know the following:

    Let me help you the wrong way again. All my sticks are PNY PC2100 DDR.

    My first two sticks bought at the same time at Best Buy are Samsung chips .... the sticks my brother said would be seen by the computer as singlesided but by eyeball have chips on both sides.

    I'm not sure how you got all the good info about your chips but let's see what you can do with these numbers.
    Best Buy matched chip set of two sticks matches your second description - so no real work there.
    Part #: 6432ZKDXA4G17TWK-OF1

    The third stick from Office Depot has the Infineon chips on them. That's the stick that I placed in slot1 as I have no idea if it is in fact read by the computer as single or double sided. My brother has not seen that stick and is not expected to be in my area anytime soon ... so no help there.
    Part #: 6432WMDXAG09TWK-0F0 (could be OFO)
    32WMD438919 stk 4389319 below that may help
    as that number is different from the 322DKD stk 445093 below the Best Buy Part #: 6432ZKDXA4G17TWK-OF1

    All I can tell you is that the Infineon chip stick in slot1 and the Samsung sticks in slot 2 & 3 of my Gigabyte board. It's working as three times 256 = 768. :)

    I also bought another stick the same day as the Infineon stick at a different Office Depot that has the single sided Elixier chips. That stick is still in the package, so I cannot see the sticker on the stick. I find it interesting that the two Office Depot sticks with different chip makers have identical UPCs for the rebate.

    I always thought that the "banks" were the motherboard slots. At least that's how my previous motherboard instructions read. Something to do with how the banks are "wired" in the manufacture of the motherboard. That how I read the Gigabyte instructions too.

    See also the message from IRISH4LIFE but I would go the the website for his board and see the instructions for yourself. Whatever you do, read the instructions for the motherboard you own or are considering purchasing.

    Regards,
    Jeff


    UPDATE: I had my chip assignments backwords. It turned out that the doublesided chip was in slot 1 as the instruction book said to do.
     
  9. JEFF68005

    JEFF68005 Member

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    More info on VIA tested DDR from several chip suppliers.

    Samsung Chip info.

    UPDATE:

    Among my three sticks, Sissoft Sandra rated the Infineon chips higher than the Samsumg. CL2-100 on the Samsung while CL2= 133 on the Infineon which in my case was really SIEMENS according to Sandra.

    I found the data sheet from Samsung. It explains all the coding on the individual chips themselves.
    It seems PNY has used over a half dozen combinations under the same UPC.

    Download Samsung Chip Data Sheet from Samsung's site to know what you are getting.

    Listing of data sheets available for DDR SAMUNG memory


    Linky to Independent chip validations for various makers such as Intel, VIA, AMD, SiS, nVIDIA, ServerWorks

    Infineon reference material

    Infineon chips - See page 4 for code breakdown.
     
  10. JEFF68005

    JEFF68005 Member

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