$250,000 if you can provide proof of "evolution"

[everman]

*sets up grill over thread*
*breaks out the hot dogs, burgers, and beer*

 

[Yossarian]

"Your god" is an imaginary being created by man's fear and securities. Once you realize that, evolution is all that's left

 

[Martgorb]

God can be disproven with simple logic. If God knows everything that will ever happen, then he knew every person's choices in life in advance. If God = the God from the Bible, then he is good, not evil. How could a good God knowingly create a life-form which is capable of weighing the evidence and concluding that the Bible is false and thus is condemned to burn in hell for eternity?

If God exists, it's not the one from the Bible, and it certainly wouldn't base your eternal fate in your willingness to accept something so superficial, so meaningless in how you choose to actually act in your life day to day.

I have to seriously question the mental capacity of anyone who would believe in one of the many fairy tale religions our species has created.

 

[Dragnov]

Originally posted by: her209
You can prove evolution through mathematical induction.

My problem with mathematical induction is that they always disregard exceptions, mainly the base case. Just as evolution does.

If single cell organisms came from the elements of the universe... where did the elements of the universe come from? And so on? It's like saying this. "It works for everything... except the first one.. but it's still true nevertheless."

 

[Spac3d]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
You can't prove anything. You can't prove that our universe isn't just a speck of dust on some alien elephant's butt. You can't prove that there are only 4 dimensions, you can't prove there are any finite number of dimensions. You can't prove ANYTHING. Every theory about our existance is wrong and small-minded, so I'd call most people idiots just for thinking they have "the answer". People naturally want to be able to answer all of their own questions. Some do it with religion, some do it with science. Either way they're all wrong. So STFU ALREADY!

These kinds of meaningless posts hurt my feelings and show you have a limited understanding of the universe. Stop arguing against people like this. We are clearly not a speck of dust on some alien elephant's butt. This is not the ending of Men in Black II. We can prove plenty of things, just ask Donald Rumsfield. Have you been reading the Urantia Book? Don't you find it funny your answer is that their are no answers? Maybe instead of being so pessimistic you should realize there are at least somethings we can figure out within the scope of our reason.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: PipBoy
"Your god" is an imaginary being created by man's fear and securities. Once you realize that, evolution is all that's left

Heh, and you putting all of your "belief eggs" in the "evolution basket" is comforting the same fears and insecurities. You're barely more open minded than LordJezo, at least if that sentence sums up how you really feel.

 

[Krassus]

I got as far as "dangerouus, mind-altering philosphy" and then realised that whoever wrote this is a fool and stopped reading.

 

[Martgorb]

Grim, how about this one:

Does it make more sense for an all knowing God to have spontaneously appeared to make the big-bang happen?

Who made God?

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: Martgorb
God can be disproven with simple logic. If God knows everything that will ever happen, then he knew every person's choices in life in advance. If God = the God from the Bible, then he is good, not evil. How could a good God knowingly create a life-form which is capable of weighing the evidence and concluding that the Bible is false and thus is condemned to burn in hell for eternity?

If God exists, it's not the one from the Bible, and it certainly wouldn't base your eternal fate in your willingness to accept something so superficial, so meaningless in how you choose to actually act in your life day to day.

I have to seriously question the mental capacity of anyone who would believe in one of the many fairy tale religions our species has created.

If you are serious about this proof, let me ask you this question. If God created sentient beings capable of making informed decisions after weighing the evidence, is He still responsible for every action these beings commit?

And if God created automatons not capable of making any dissenting decisions by themselves, are they still free and intelligent? If not, wouldn't one (such as yourself) object to this kind of pre-determination? Would it not all be moot?

 

[Spac3d]

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK

Originally posted by: her209
You can prove evolution through mathematical induction.

My problem with mathematical induction is that they always disregard exceptions, mainly the base case. Just as evolution does.

If single cell organisms came from the elements of the universe... where did the elements of the universe come from? And so on? It's like saying this. "It works for everything... except the first one.. but it's still true still."

Look evolution is not trying to say where the universe came from. That is a different topic. And there are volumes written on that subject as well. The base case of evolution is basically the formation of proteins. And what mathematical induction are you talking about? I can think of no case that is disregarded because it is an exception. What was your highest level of math attempted? Algebra? Geometry? Maybe Stats?

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: Spac3d

Not trying to flame or make a personal attack, just trying to help the "scientific minded" people be a little more scientific... Although the original post and link were stupid, he did make a good point that evolutionists rely on faith just as much as creationists.

Evolutionists do not rely on faith. They rely on thousands of man hours studying things I find rediculously boring like Finches, bones, and earthworms. Creationists rely on blind faith. They are a dying breed and should stop fighting. I offer 10 million dollars if anyone can provide empirical evidence God even exists. (By the way the Bible is out. Its circular logic is neither empirical or evidence).

They rely on thousands of man hours of studying things with the five senses humans possess. You may believe what you want, but I believe that our view of the universe and everything else that makes up reality is an infinitesimally small one. You can think you have the answers all you want, but I'd hate to be that closed minded. And yeah, for me, it's a given that most any religiously based beliefs about even somewhat scientific things are usually ridiculous. Not even worth wasting breath on IMO.

Actually Humans have 7 senses: Sight, Sound, Smell, Taste, Skin senses (sense of pressure, touch, pain, heat, and cold), Kinesthetic sense (senses of body movement and position). and Vestibular Senses (senses of balance, position in space, and acceleration)

 

[MustangSVT]

PROOF!!!

 

[Martgorb]

Yes, he is responsible. He would be responsible for having people born in areas dominated by other religions. People have unfair percentages on their willingness to accept certain religions.

Do you honestly think someone born into Buddhist family in China has the same chance to accept Christ as someone born into a loving Christian household in America? If so, how?

My answer is if he felt the desire to create worshippers, then his decision on how to base their eternal fate, and the chances distributed to these people was a critical mistake. One that It could not make.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

These kinds of meaningless posts hurt my feelings

Same reason christians get hurt when you tell them that creationism is stupid. Lack of an open mind.

and show you have a limited understanding of the universe.

HAH! Of course I have a limited understanding of the universe. You believing otherwise about yourself is... well, not sure what to say. Confident for sure!

Stop arguing against people like this.

So you argue against the christian yet ask me to stop when I cast doubt upon your beliefs?

We are clearly not a speck of dust on some alien elephant's butt.

It was a joke, if you couldn't tell. The point is, that if there are things as small as a photon, or as large as the universe, why can't there be things that are bigger or smaller than those? ALOT bigger or smaller. Infinitely bigger or smaller. Not that I would know, but it seems awful likely.

This is not the ending of Men in Black II. We can prove plenty of things, just ask Donald Rumsfield.

Haha

Have you been reading the Urantia Book?

Never heard of it. I don't buy books often and the few I do buy are usually programming books.

Don't you find it funny your answer is that their are no answers?

Funny? I suppose in a way. Inspiring? Yes. Depressing? Yes. Amazing? Yes. There are no answers IMO. You can answer as many things as you want, but you'll still raise just as many questions. You truly think that there are answers for everything?

Maybe instead of being so pessimistic

I suppose it is pessimistic, eh. You know what they say, ignorance is bliss.

you should realize there are at least somethings we can figure out within the scope of our reason.

Sure, but what does that count for? Not much. Our scope of reason is infinitely small compared to the whole picture. I'm sick of pondering the usual stuff, I WANT to ponder about things that are "outside" of our "scope of reason", however you want to define that.

 

[Spac3d]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
isn't that like trying to prove where an electron is at any moment around an atom? u cant.

doesn't mean the electron doesn't exist.


fools errands.

people unwilling to put their own believes up to the lofty standards they put on others. its like me believing in santa yet laughing at you for not proving the existence of jesus and his divinity to my satisfaction

silly silly electrons are in fact a wave half the time. thats why you can't tell where they are at any given moment, just where they are most likely to be.

 

[Ameesh]

that guy is a $hit head, there is no way anyone in the world can have empircal evidence of the big bang. he knows he'll never pay out and he gives opportunity to the small minded myopic religious fundies who post links to his site can get all huffy about it.

 

[element]

Originally posted by: johnjohn320
Looks like it's time for the weekly Creation vs. Evolution thread.

Guys, I mean, c'mon. Does it really matter? Is it worth getting angry about?

Some people (like me) support the theory of evolution. Others believe God created the world 10,000 years ago. Others believe in Allah. Others follow Buddah.

"But when it all comes down to a hole in the ground, does it really matter at all?"

Of course, being agnostic, it's probably pretty easy for me to say all this. Heh, come to think of it, agnostic is sort of the lazy, apathetic belief structure isn't it? Fits me to a tee.

Agnosticisim has nothing to do with laziness. It is merely coming to grips with reality, and the truth, that neither you, nor anyone else knows for sure the answer. You may be agnostic, and lazy, but that doesn't make all agnostics lazy now does it?

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: Martgorb
Yes, he is responsible. He would be responsible for having people born in areas dominated by other religions. People have unfair percentages on their willingness to accept certain religions.

Do you honestly think someone born into Buddhist family in China has the same chance to accept Christ as someone born into a loving Christian household in America? If so, how?

My answer is if he felt the desire to create worshippers, then his decision on how to base their eternal fate, and the chances distributed to these people was a critical mistake. One that It could not make.

If you have a son or daughter, are you responsible for every single one of their actions big and small, when they're 35?

God commissioned Christians to go out and preach the Gospel. It is at your own option to accept it or not. God does not make decisions for you. Might I add as preachers and preachees we have failed God, but God hasn't failed anyone - it is all at our own chosing. Any responsibility God assumes takes away from your freedom, something you surely would object to.

God's desire is not to create worshippers. He is interested in loving us as his children. And it is purely at our option to accept it or not. The penalty is there not to hurt us, as hell is not what you see in cartoons, but all it is is eternal isolation from your Creator. Which, BTW, is what you would want if you were to not accept Him as your creator. You just don't know that there's nothing but eternal lonliness and darkness elsewhere.

edit: I don't mean to step over your beliefs with all this, they are actually just my humble beliefs...

 

[Antny]

I just thought of something. The Bible's creation account would acctually prove most of the precepts behind evolution.
God created Adam and Eve. This means that all of the humans on the planet earth are descended from these two individuals. That means that all of the diversity currently on earth are the result of two sets of chromosomes. While it's possible that Adam and Eve were heterozygous for the majority of thier genes and could have given rise to multiple differing phenotypes, the following generations would not be.
This theory would be okay except that Noah and his wife would have been a genetic bottleneck on the population and would have resulted in a severe loss of diversity, aka a founder effect. The only way to explain the current diversity amongst humans on the planet is evolution.

 

[hdeck]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
isn't that like trying to prove where an electron is at any moment around an atom? u cant.

doesn't mean the electron doesn't exist.


fools errands.

people unwilling to put their own believes up to the lofty standards they put on others. its like me believing in santa yet laughing at you for not proving the existence of jesus and his divinity to my satisfaction

the same exact thing can be said about God/creationalist theory. good job showing absolutely nothing.

 

[MustangSVT]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: Martgorb
Yes, he is responsible. He would be responsible for having people born in areas dominated by other religions. People have unfair percentages on their willingness to accept certain religions.

Do you honestly think someone born into Buddhist family in China has the same chance to accept Christ as someone born into a loving Christian household in America? If so, how?

My answer is if he felt the desire to create worshippers, then his decision on how to base their eternal fate, and the chances distributed to these people was a critical mistake. One that It could not make.

If you have a son or daughter, are you responsible for every single one of their actions big and small, when they're 35?

God commissioned Christians to go out and preach the Gospel. It is at your own option to accept it or not. God does not make decisions for you. Might I add as preachers and preachees we have failed God, but God hasn't failed anyone - it is all at our own chosing. Any responsibility God assumes takes away from your freedom, something you surely would object to.

God's desire is not to create worshippers. He is interested in loving us as his children. And it is purely at our option to accept it or not. The penalty is there not to hurt us, as hell is not what you see in cartoons, but all it is is eternal isolation from your Creator. Which, BTW, is what you would want if you were to not accept Him as your creator. You just don't know that there's nothing but eternal lonliness and darkness elsewhere.

edit: I don't mean to step over your beliefs with all this, they are actually just my humble beliefs...

Oooh YOU know what GOD thinks? and what his interests are? wow..

 

[element]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: Martgorb
Yes, he is responsible. He would be responsible for having people born in areas dominated by other religions. People have unfair percentages on their willingness to accept certain religions.

Do you honestly think someone born into Buddhist family in China has the same chance to accept Christ as someone born into a loving Christian household in America? If so, how?

My answer is if he felt the desire to create worshippers, then his decision on how to base their eternal fate, and the chances distributed to these people was a critical mistake. One that It could not make.

If you have a son or daughter, are you responsible for every single one of their actions big and small, when they're 35?
...

If you have several sons and daughters, and you needed to tell them something important, would you give one of them a stone tablet with the important rules you wanted them to follow? Or would you say: Family meeting!?

After you answer that, tell me, is your god an irresponsible one?

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: Martgorb
Yes, he is responsible. He would be responsible for having people born in areas dominated by other religions. People have unfair percentages on their willingness to accept certain religions.

Do you honestly think someone born into Buddhist family in China has the same chance to accept Christ as someone born into a loving Christian household in America? If so, how?

My answer is if he felt the desire to create worshippers, then his decision on how to base their eternal fate, and the chances distributed to these people was a critical mistake. One that It could not make.

BTW, I was born into a Buddhist family in China. No joke. To me it shows if you have an open and inquiring and humble mind God will show you the way.

But I see what you're questioning here and I often question the same thing. All I can say is emphasize what I said before - its all up to people, to preach, and do so with integrity and unhypocritically, and to be preached to, with an open and humble mindset. Since this is often (usually?) not the case, you can imagine why much of the world is filled with nonChristians.

All I know is that God is just and God is loving. Beyond that, what his plans are for those who have never been exposed to the knowledge of Him I don't know. I'll just pray.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: element®

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: Martgorb
Yes, he is responsible. He would be responsible for having people born in areas dominated by other religions. People have unfair percentages on their willingness to accept certain religions.

Do you honestly think someone born into Buddhist family in China has the same chance to accept Christ as someone born into a loving Christian household in America? If so, how?

My answer is if he felt the desire to create worshippers, then his decision on how to base their eternal fate, and the chances distributed to these people was a critical mistake. One that It could not make.

If you have a son or daughter, are you responsible for every single one of their actions big and small, when they're 35?
...

If you have several sons and daughters, and you needed to tell them something important, would you give one of them a stone tablet with the important rules you wanted them to follow? Or would you say: Family meeting!?

After you answer that, tell me, is your god an irresponsible one?

I don't know why He did what He did. But continuing the analogy, the sons and daughters should respect the way the parent decides to go about doing something - especially in this case, when we cannot always comprehend his plans.

However, God did leave us the Bible, filled with everything we need to know about how to live our lives and what to believe. I believe it contains everything He wants to communicate to us, and it is widely available.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: MustangSVT

Originally posted by: busmaster11

God's desire is not to create worshippers. He is interested in loving us as his children. And it is purely at our option to accept it or not. The penalty is there not to hurt us, as hell is not what you see in cartoons, but all it is is eternal isolation from your Creator. Which, BTW, is what you would want if you were to not accept Him as your creator. You just don't know that there's nothing but eternal lonliness and darkness elsewhere.

edit: I don't mean to step over your beliefs with all this, they are actually just my humble beliefs...

Oooh YOU know what GOD thinks? and what his interests are? wow..

I believe I have a general idea of what the Bible says, yes. Thank you for your contribution.