I'm going to upgrade to A64 s939 with NF3 mobo. Do i need a psu with a 24 pin power connector? What is this for anyways?
24 pin power connector?
- Thread starter frankierx
- Start date
are you saying that i'll need a 24 pin psu for a pci-e card? what if I dont have a 24 pin psu? Can I get an adapter?
Does this psu have the 24 pin power connector? :
ENERMAX Noisetaker Series 470W Power Supply, ATX 12V V1.3 compatible: Support latest P4 and Athlon 64 platforms, Model "EG475P-VE-SFMA"
it says "Special Features: Smart fan, Separate 12V rails, S-ATA connectors, Extra Power connector, Copper-shielding"
Is "extra power connector" mean 24 pin power connector?
ENERMAX Noisetaker Series 470W Power Supply, ATX 12V V1.3 compatible: Support latest P4 and Athlon 64 platforms, Model "EG475P-VE-SFMA"
it says "Special Features: Smart fan, Separate 12V rails, S-ATA connectors, Extra Power connector, Copper-shielding"
Is "extra power connector" mean 24 pin power connector?
LTC8K6
Lifer
- Mar 10, 2004
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There is an extra 4 pin connector on most new desktop boards. It is an extra 12V supply. The power supplies are called ATX 12V, signifying that they have the extra 4pin 12V connector.
The very newest boards and supplies are called EPS, I believe. They have combined the extra 4 pin 12V connector and the regular 20pin connector to make a single 24pin connector.
Here is an abit board with the extra 4 pin ATX 12V connection.
ABIT
I am surprised that people are unaware of ATX 12V, since it has been around for a long time already. P4 boards have had them for a while and so have Athlon boards.
The very newest boards and supplies are called EPS, I believe. They have combined the extra 4 pin 12V connector and the regular 20pin connector to make a single 24pin connector.
Here is an abit board with the extra 4 pin ATX 12V connection.
ABIT
I am surprised that people are unaware of ATX 12V, since it has been around for a long time already. P4 boards have had them for a while and so have Athlon boards.
Don't think so. Such a PSU will usually say "PCI Express Ready" somewhere as here:
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=17-151-018&depa=0
See images of box and adapter included.
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=17-151-018&depa=0
See images of box and adapter included.
LTC8K6
Lifer
- Mar 10, 2004
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ATX 12V has nothing to do with PCI Express.
Here is an old SOYO mobo (P4I865PE) that they don't even make anymore. You can clearly see it requires an ATX 12V supply with the extra 12V 4pin connector with black and yellow leads.
Text
Many socket 939 boards also use the ATX 12V supply. Here on the Asus A8V, you can see the extra 4pin 12V connector in the top right corner in this photo.
Text
What's all the hubbub anyway? If your board doesn't need the 4 pin connector, then you just tie it up out of the way. The 20pin part is the same as all the other ATX supplies.
I wonder how many folks have stability trouble due to being unaware that they need an ATX 12V supply?
Here is an old SOYO mobo (P4I865PE) that they don't even make anymore. You can clearly see it requires an ATX 12V supply with the extra 12V 4pin connector with black and yellow leads.
Text
Many socket 939 boards also use the ATX 12V supply. Here on the Asus A8V, you can see the extra 4pin 12V connector in the top right corner in this photo.
Text
What's all the hubbub anyway? If your board doesn't need the 4 pin connector, then you just tie it up out of the way. The 20pin part is the same as all the other ATX supplies.
I wonder how many folks have stability trouble due to being unaware that they need an ATX 12V supply?
mechBgon
Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
- Oct 31, 1999
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Here's a photo of an Enermax ATX 2.2 PSU cable set, and how they managed the 20-pin/24-pin setup: linkie. You can also see a PCI-Express video-power plug in that photo. Here's an example of one of the models that comes with that: http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=17-103-458&depa=0 Newegg is designating this type "ATX12V Ver. 2.0" for some reason.
By doing it this way, Enermax avoids having a bottleneck where single crimps are trying to carry power to two wires at a 20-to-24 adapter. For boards where the 24-pin is needed, the extra four have their own wires all the way back to the PSU. For boards where it's not, just coil it up and stow it out of the way.
By doing it this way, Enermax avoids having a bottleneck where single crimps are trying to carry power to two wires at a 20-to-24 adapter. For boards where the 24-pin is needed, the extra four have their own wires all the way back to the PSU. For boards where it's not, just coil it up and stow it out of the way.
mechBgon
Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
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I think they're thinking of boards like the Asus A8N-SLI, which uses an ATX12V four-pin, plus a 24-pin main (plus an EZ Plug in that particular case): pic of A8N SLI power connector layout
frankierx, if in doubt, just pull up a photo of the boards you're considering, and count the holes in the ATX fitting, or get a PSU that's ready for either.
what is active pfc value?
Active PFC function:
PF value 0.99 under condition of 230VAC/50Hz at full load.
Active PFC function:
PF value 0.99 under condition of 230VAC/50Hz at full load.
LTC8K6
Lifer
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flexy
Diamond Member
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NOPE. Because all pci-ex cards will have an additional molex or an pci-ex power connector.
You need an adapter then which connects two molex to the 6 pin pci-ex connection on the card.
I do NOT think so that a 24pin is *mandatory*, not if the card can get juice from elsewhere.
I beg to differ. It appears that the different slots in a 24 pin main plug have different leads...+3v, ground, +5v, etc. If the pegs are misaligned it seems to me that you could easily cook the board and possibly anything drawing power from it...
Anyone care to correct me if I'm wrong here?
flexy
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This is one ofd the postings which always requires a lot of details to elaborate..and i'd wish some people would just search in the forum
In short: Do NOT get this adapter...there are many reasons for this. One is that you put just too much load on the SINGLE rails of a 20pin PSU. If you use the adapter and eg. make an "artificial" 24pin conenctor with it...you draw twice as much power and put a lot of strain on the plug/adapter.....the thermal strain is 4x higher.
Thats from my "research"...btw. i have two of these adapters.....but i did something more involved so i dont need these adapters for above reasons.
Btw. i have an enermax 465W Whisper II which came with 20pin connector.
I made me additional 4 pins by using some leads from the PSU and some soldering work. So now i have the 20pin plug and 4 more extra which i can plug in to make it 24pin compatible...
But as said...i do not THINK that the 24p is a necessary requirement. If you get one of the new pci-ex cards they usually have a pci-ex power connector which only needs an adapter (NOT the 20p --> 24p, but a so called pci-ex PSU adapter).... 2 unused molex ---> pci-ex card. I do not THINK that the additional 4 pins (on the motherboard main conector) for providing juice to the pci-ex port is really mandatory if the card gets power from two molex ?!
But..if you are in doubt....rather get a good brand 24p PSU and better do not use the 24p -> 20p adapter. My $0.2
Originally posted by: flexy
This is one ofd the postings which always requires a lot of details to elaborate..and i'd wish some people would just search in the forum
In short: Do NOT get this adapter...there are many reasons for this. One is that you put just too much load on the SINGLE rails of a 20pin PSU. If you use the adapter and eg. make an "artificial" 24pin conenctor with it...you draw twice as much power and put a lot of strain on the plug/adapter.....the thermal strain is 4x higher.
Thats from my "research"...btw. i have two of these adapters.....but i did something more involved so i dont need these adapters for above reasons.
Btw. i have an enermax 465W Whisper II which came with 20pin connector.
I made me additional 4 pins by using some leads from the PSU and some soldering work. So now i have the 20pin plug and 4 more extra which i can plug in to make it 24pin compatible...
But as said...i do not THINK that the 24p is a necessary requirement. If you get one of the new pci-ex cards they usually have a pci-ex power connector which only needs an adapter (NOT the 20p --> 24p, but a so called pci-ex PSU adapter).... 2 unused molex ---> pci-ex card. I do not THINK that the addition 4 pins for providing juice to the pci-ex port is really mandatory.
But..if you are in doubt....rather get a good brand 24p PSU and better do not use the adapter. My $0.2
Why wouldn't 24 pins be neccesary? There's a 24 pin main plug....you can't just jam a 20 pin connector into it.
What I mean is look here:
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/m...I_DELUXE_POWER_RQs.gif
If you go and stick a 20 pin in there, three of the +3 leads and ground are left dead. I'm still not clear - why is a 24 pin not neccesary?
Plus, I just shelled over $80 for this PSU a couple weeks ago, and I am certainly NOT buying another one simply because the mainboard manufacturers refuse to be practical about this. I wanted to be on the new standard, but if they don't realize most of the market has a 20 pin PSU, then it's back to NF3 and AGP for me. I'll worry about PCIe in 1.5 - 2 years when I build my next system.
flexy
Diamond Member
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>>>
I beg to differ. It appears that the different slots in a 24 pin main plug have different leads...+3v, ground, +5v, etc. If the pegs are misaligned it seems to me that you could easily cook the board and possibly anything drawing power from it...
>>>
whats the question ?
Yes..the 4 extras are +5, +3, +12 and GND...and yes, if you screw something up there you might fry something But this was not really the question or what i said.
I said that (IMHO) most new boards and pci-ex cards should work fine with only the 20p plug and the card getting its power thru the two unused molex with the usual pci ex power adapter. Correct me if i am wrong.
I beg to differ. It appears that the different slots in a 24 pin main plug have different leads...+3v, ground, +5v, etc. If the pegs are misaligned it seems to me that you could easily cook the board and possibly anything drawing power from it...
>>>
whats the question ?
Yes..the 4 extras are +5, +3, +12 and GND...and yes, if you screw something up there you might fry something
But this was not really the question or what i said.I said that (IMHO) most new boards and pci-ex cards should work fine with only the 20p plug and the card getting its power thru the two unused molex with the usual pci ex power adapter. Correct me if i am wrong.
flexy
Diamond Member
- Sep 28, 2001
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>>>
Why wouldn't 24 pins be neccesary? There's a 24 pin main plug....you can't just jam a 20 pin connector into it.
What I mean is look here:
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/m...I_DELUXE_POWER_RQs.gif
If you go and stick a 20 pin in there, three of the +3 leads and ground are left dead. I
>>>
yes, you do NOT need to plug all the 24p in this connector. There are even boards where there is an optional cover on the 4 extras....so you can plug in the 20p...and if you HAVE a 24p PSU you can remove the cover and plug the whole 24p in.
You dont screw anything up by pluging the 20p in the 24p except that the 4 extras (going to the pci-port) are unused. (No power to pci-ex port).
But this shouldnt worry you when your card gets enough juice by molex connectors already.
Originally posted by: flexy
>>>
I beg to differ. It appears that the different slots in a 24 pin main plug have different leads...+3v, ground, +5v, etc. If the pegs are misaligned it seems to me that you could easily cook the board and possibly anything drawing power from it...
>>>
whats the question ?
Yes..the 4 extras are +5, +3, +12 and GND...and yes, if you screw something up there you might fry something
I said that (IMHO) most new boards and pci-ex cards should work fine with only the 20p plug and the card getting its power thru the two unused molex with the usual pci ex power adapter. Correct me if i am wrong.
You're not getting it - look at the diagram. The extras are NOT a +5, +3, +12, GND on the A8N. They are +3, +3, +3, GND, meaning your +3.3 devices would be woefully undernourished, leading to huge stability problems.
How do you know what the extra connections are on other boards? Maybe they will be what you said, and maybe not, but either way it's the motherboard not getting the power it needs. I understand what you're saying about the card not NEEDING the extra power, but that DOESN'T CHANGE the fact that the dead leads may screw something else up. I am going to ask you these questions again, please try to answer them, or admit you don't know, one.
1) If the board will work fine with a 20 pin plug even though it's main plug is a 24 pin, WHERE WOULD YOU PLUG THE 20 PIN PLUG IN?
2) Since this will leave dead leads, how would you know what leads are dead, unless the mobo manufacturer gives you a diagram like ASUS did?
3) If you know these leads are dead, how can you be sure the board will function correctly?
4) Will not having dead leads on the main power plug cause the devices to try to suck too much juice through the leads that ARE plugged in, thus hurting both the power supply, the mainboard, and the devices, and possibly destroying all of them?
I kind of see what you're saying....if you move the plug "up" in the 24p main connector, you could leave one lead of each rail dead, plus a ground. But wouldn't this cause the retard-proofing latches on the main plug and the connector from the PSU to misalign, thus not allowing you to plug the connector in unless you did some "surgery" on the retard-latch?
Furthermore, trying to do this without a diagram of the main plug is risky at best, unless they're all on some kind of standard - being that PSU manufacturers need something to build for I imagine that's the case, but one never knows...
flexy
Diamond Member
- Sep 28, 2001
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>>>
If you go and stick a 20 pin in there, three of the +3 leads and ground are left dead. I'm still not clear - why is a 24 pin not neccesary?
>>>
the 4 pins at the bottom are left dead....thats the extra 4 ones...the 3, 5, 12 and GND at the bottom.
edit: yes i see ...you got the two ends of the connector wrong...its the bottom ones ! The rest is compatible.
If you go and stick a 20 pin in there, three of the +3 leads and ground are left dead. I'm still not clear - why is a 24 pin not neccesary?
>>>
the 4 pins at the bottom are left dead....thats the extra 4 ones...the 3, 5, 12 and GND at the bottom.
edit: yes i see ...you got the two ends of the connector wrong...its the bottom ones ! The rest is compatible.
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