2300$ Gaming rig, need help!

[Mouxville]

Hello guys!

I've come here to get some help from more advanced/experianced people, because I'm building a new computer. But I actually have close to no knowlage of building a computer from the scratch. I've tried to do some research and stuff myself, but everything seem like reading latin to me. I'm gonna copy paste a template from another side to make it clear.


Approximate Purchase Date: Start of July.

Budget Range: (e.g.: 600-800) According to my calc my approximated price is 2300 in dollars. I can dish out more if it would improve my comp alot, or go lower pref if it won't change much.

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Mostly gaming, no video/photo editing nor rendering.

Parts Not Required: I HAVE; Mouse, OS, Monitor, Keyboard, headset etc. I just need the station itself.

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: (e.g.: newegg.com, ncix.com -- to show us selection & pricing) N/A since I'll order it from a Norwegian site.

Country: (e.g.: India) Norway.

Parts Preferences: Uhm, after alot of research I've come to the conclution that Intel i5/i7 beats the new AMD?

Overclocking: Yes / No / Maybe; Maybe, I won't touch it myself. But I've got a friend who has done some, which is the one whos gonna put the comp togheter for me. So he _MIGHT_ do it.

SLI or Crossfire: Uhm, I guess if its better and I won't gimp other neccesary parts?

Monitor Resolution: I've got a 1920x1080 monitor. 24". Don't plan on running more than one monitor in the near future.

Additional Comments: I don't care for flashy/fancy chases nor insides. I'd like a silent computer tho, since I have children sleeping when I'm playing. They won't prob notice anyhow but.


Thats it I guess? Feel free to pump out questions etc etc.

I'm very greatful for every answer I get, and thanks in advance.

Reguards
Timmy.

 

[Ken g6]

That's a good template! The only problem is you didn't follow it:

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: (e.g.: newegg.com, ncix.com -- to show us selection & pricing) N/A since I'll order it from a Norwegian site.

So, we need a Norwegian web site to show us Norwegian parts pricing in Norwegian currency.

Mfenn puts together [thread=2192841]a good generic build[/thread] frequently, but it's in USD.

 

[lehtv]

In the US, $2300 will get you a sick PC that can run triple monitors or 2560x1600 smoothly. For high end 1080p gaming, you don't need to spend more than $1200-1500 or so. But European pricing on components is relatively higher, and I'd expect Norwegian pricing to be higher relative to continental European simply because it's an expensive country. So, we need the Norwegian site you're using; the language isn't a problem with Google Translate.

 

[Mouxville]

Yeah, I can see where ur going. Should've put the site in. I'm planning on using www.komplett.no mostly
Yeah, after what I've seen parts are alot cheaper in the US, which sucks. But thats a bullet I gotta take for living in this country :x Its around 12,000-13,000 NOK/Norwegian Kroner

 

[epidemis]

Get a socket 1155 board with i7 2600k. 660gtx 8 gigabyte ddr3 ram (the cheapest) + any hard disc of your choosing

 

[Ken g6]

Get a socket 1155 board

Right

with i7 2600k

Go with a 3570K instead.

660gtx

We shall see Monday, probably. But probably good.

8 gigabyte ddr3 ram (the cheapest) + any hard disc of your choosing

Good.
And a Crucial M4 128GB if it fits in your budget.

 

[lehtv]

www.komplett.no
around 12,000-13,000 NOK/Norwegian Kroner

I tried to pick the best high quality yet bang for buck parts. It's a balanced build overall, with a focus on gaming performance obviously, plus the bonus SSD. Only pick the OC build if you intend to OC properly right away, the 1000 kr difference means it's not going to be remotely worth it unless you do.

Mobo Asus P8H77-V 829 kr (no OC) or Gigabyte Z77X-D3H 1095 kr (OC)
CPU i5-3470 1575 kr (no OC) or i5-3570K 1879 kr (OC)
Cooling Stock (no OC) or Hyper 212 Evo 365 kr (though 212 is quieter than stock, can get it for i5-3470 as well)
RAM Crucial 2x4GB 1600MHz 429 kr
GPU Asus GTX 670 3495 kr (best 670 in town)
SSD Crucial M4 128GB 875 kr
HDD Seagate 2TB 7200RPM 949 kr
ODD Samsung DVD burner 169 kr or
PSU XFX 550W 645 kr
Case Fractal Design Arc Midi 799 kr (decent cooling from 3x140mm fans, includes a fan controller for quietness)

= 9934 kr (no OC) or 10869 kr (OC)

Also, you can add Asus Xonar DG 249kr if you have good headphones.

Spending more would mean less bang for buck:

- Mobo - most likely the above are more than fine
- You're gaming so there's no point going above i5
- More expensive coolers are for heavy overclocking or super quiet operation (212 is very quiet at idle)
- Faster RAM has no noticeable effect on performance outside of benchmarking
- GTX680 would not perform more than 5-10% better for an additional 25% more cost. Upcoming GTX 660 also possible but underbudgeted
- 256GB SSD is simply not needed... well, 128gb will fill up from games pretty fast but loading times are still very good on a modern 7200rpm drive, it's not an issue
- The PSU is very reliable, anything more expensive would be either overkill in terms of wattage, or marginally more energy efficient, or modular (not needed on a 550W unit)
- Diminishing returns from a more expensive case

Thus, I don't think you should spend more now. Save the ~2000 kr leftover on future upgrades instead.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Do the games you want to play utilize all cores? if so, get a hyper-threading CPU
+1 on the 670

 

[Mouxville]

Thank you for all the responses! I'm very greatful

Thanks for ur list lehtv! So u wouldn't recommend to getting the GTX 680? Coz I've been looking at it. But as I said, I've got no clue which is worth getting or not compared to the preformance/prize I get. As for headphones I've got the Logitech G35, dunno if they qualify ^^

 

[Mouxville]

Do the games you want to play utilize all cores? if so, get a hyper-threading CPU
+1 on the 670

I'm planning on playing Skyrim (with all the performance enchanting mods), BF3, yeah pretty much every new singleplayer game and such

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I'm planning on playing Skyrim (with all the performance enchanting mods), BF3, yeah pretty much every new singleplayer game and such

I know the Unreal 3 engine uses all processor cores and then some. If any of the games you want to play utilize all cores then get a chip that has Hyper-Threading. It will not increase your fps but it will benefit other areas with your system. And have you thought about getting a NIC card? e.g. Intel NIC

 

[Mouxville]

I know the Unreal 3 engine uses all processor cores and then some. If any of the games you want to play utilize all cores then get a chip that has Hyper-Threading. It will not increase your fps but it will benefit other areas with your system. And have you thought about getting a NIC card? e.g. Intel NIC

Hm, I don't actually know. Im mostly buying this comp, so I can basicly play any game I want. Since now I only play League of Legends with friends, and when they're not on I go for single player games. Uhm, I'm using WIFI (Wireless) so dunno if that adapter will help me? Ugh. I'm really bad at this stuff XD

 

[lehtv]

Thank you for all the responses! I'm very greatful

Thanks for ur list lehtv! So u wouldn't recommend to getting the GTX 680? Coz I've been looking at it. But as I said, I've got no clue which is worth getting or not compared to the preformance/prize I get.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/598?vs=555

In every GPU generation, the top single GPU card is worse bang for buck than the second place holder. In GTX 600 series, that's particularly true

As for headphones I've got the Logitech G35, dunno if they qualify ^^

That's a USB headset so it has its own audio processor. It can't use a soundcard, you'd need headphones that use the standard 3.5mm audio jack.

 

[lehtv]

I know the Unreal 3 engine uses all processor cores and then some. If any of the games you want to play utilize all cores then get a chip that has Hyper-Threading. It will not increase your fps but it will benefit other areas with your system. And have you thought about getting a NIC card? e.g. Intel NIC

BF3 is the only current game that really benefits from HT but even then only in large-scale multiplayer and with a GPU setup that would otherwise be bottlenecked. A hyperthreaded CPU will cost an additional +50%, but the relative increase in framerates doesn't even begin to approach that increase in cost. It probably wouldn't be worth it on a single GTX670 even if all games were heavily multithreaded because games just aren't demanding enough as of yet to require enough GPU power to truly benefit from hyperthreading in a fast quad core

Why would he need a NIC card? Motherboards have integrated NIC.

@OP Why are you using wireless on a desktop? You don't need to move it around so might as well use a cable.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Unreal Tournament III benefits immensely. I've ran my rig with HT off the past year or more. I recently turned it on and the effects of it ON even set my sail into looking at a Gulftown i7 970; which leads me to my next point.

Before I started looking into DPC latency I bought an add-on NIC card, the one linked to be exact. Most onboard NICs are feature packed yet some do not have available features you can find on an add-on NIC. e.g. RSS Recieve Side Scaling. If your onboard NIC doesn't support features that don't support reducing CPU load by offloading CPU tasks to the NIC this is where congestion starts and Hyper Threading alleviates it.


Let me point out again that this is for a game using UE3 and just my own personal experience

 

[mfenn]

Unreal Tournament III benefits immensely. I've ran my rig with HT off the past year or more. I recently turned it on and the effects of it ON even set my sail into looking at a Gulftown i7 970; which leads me to my next point.

OK, so you get like 300 FPS instead of 200 FPS? Big whoop. UT3 is an old game that's really easy to run.

Before I started looking into DPC latency I bought an add-on NIC card, the one linked to be exact. Most onboard NICs are feature packed yet some do not have available features you can find on an add-on NIC. e.g. RSS Recieve Side Scaling. If your onboard NIC doesn't support features that don't support reducing CPU load by offloading CPU tasks to the NIC this is where congestion starts and Hyper Threading alleviates it.

What sort of Internet connection do you have? OC-192? Your typical 10-20 Mb/s home internet connection is in no way shape or form going to be generating enough interrupts to swamp a modern processor. RSS matters in the data center, not at home.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

OK, so you get like 300 FPS instead of 200 FPS? Big whoop. UT3 is an old game that's really easy to run.

What are you referring to by this ...I've never mentioned that more cores or HT increases frames per second in UT3.

I'm pretty familiar with UT3 performance. I've gone through Unreal Tournament 3 on a few different machines; dual core AMD 939, dual core Wolfdale, quad core Yorkfield, and this Bloomfield. The UE3 engine a hungry beast.

What sort of Internet connection do you have? OC-192? Your typical 10-20 Mb/s home internet connection is in no way shape or form going to be generating enough interrupts to swamp a modern processor. RSS matters in the data center, not at home.

Again let me point out this is with the UE3 engine, with other game engines it might not matter to have a HT on or a NIC card to off-load CPU cycles and reduce CPU overhead. A perfect example where having HT on & your machine's NIC and Stack setup would be in Unreal Tournament III's game mode Duel. On my particular machine you cannot argue that there is no difference of having these things optimized vs running it without HT and at default. Arguing this would be offensive.

 

[lehtv]

What are you referring to by this ...I've never mentioned that more cores or HT increases frames per second in UT3.

[...]

Again let me point out this is with the UE3 engine, with other game engines it might not matter to have a HT on or a NIC card to off-load CPU cycles and reduce CPU overhead. A perfect example where having HT on & your machine's NIC and Stack setup would be in Unreal Tournament III's game mode Duel. On my particular machine you cannot argue that there is no difference of having these things optimized vs running it without HT and at default. Arguing this would be offensive.

I'm not following. If there's a difference from HT and it's not framerates, what is it? You said that HT alleviates the load on the CPU from networking - how does that benefit UT3 in practice if not better framerate (presumably due to lesser CPU bottlenecking)? Better latency?

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I'm not following. If there's a difference from HT and it's not framerates, what is it? You said that HT alleviates the load on the CPU from networking - how does that benefit UT3 in practice if not better framerate (presumably due to lesser CPU bottlenecking)? Better latency?

There are no improvements on latency like a shorter RTT. The improvement is on the user end. Before I turned HT back on I was searching for answers in networking. What led me to believe Hyper Threading is a big part in the improvement with Unreal Tournament III were the options to 'reduce CPU load by offloading CPU tasks to the network card' via the network card, small improvements in movement were felt. With my i7 920 @ 4Ghz the difference with HT on is that there is a noticeable improvement in user/player movement. This is most noticeable when in Duel mode or aka 1v1. The experience is like playing on a 120Hz monitor vs a 60Hz monitor. The user inputs a dodge command and the sense of jittery movement is obvious with HT off. Take into consideration that I've played on the same duel server under both circumstances with HT off (for the longest time) and with HT On as of recently. Also, I am not the only one that has mentioned this type of thing about user movement. In-fact a recent duel match I can recall the other player talking about movement issues like I described above. I imagine why this is more noticeable than any other game is the level of movement incorporated into the game.

Sorry this is more of a user experience answer than a technical answer but my experience with my particular hardware tells me using Hyper Threading for an old game is very beneficial contrary to popular thought. And for my next platform purchase I will be buying a 4 or more core CPU that has Hyper Threading.

And I also want to apologize to the OP for getting off track with your request for suggestions on your build.

 

[Mouxville]

Don't worry about the off tracking, was quite intressting to read even tho I didn't understand most of it. Hmm, I think I actually will go for this setup. I feel abit "bad" about going for something cheaper than I was expected to go, but if you say that I won't make much difference and its better to save the money and upgrade later I will do it. You obviously have ALOT of knowledge about this matter.

Thanks alot for helping me out! I appriciate it alot

 

[mfenn]

On my particular machine you cannot argue that there is no difference of having these things optimized vs running it without HT and at default. Arguing this would be offensive.

One word for you: Placebo. It has a powerful impact on the human mind.

If you cannot objectively measure a difference in terms of framerates, RTT, or any other metric that you care to name. There is no difference and recommending that somebody waste money on snake oil is the highest form of "offensive" in my opinion.

 

[mfenn]

Don't worry about the off tracking, was quite intressting to read even tho I didn't understand most of it. Hmm, I think I actually will go for this setup. I feel abit "bad" about going for something cheaper than I was expected to go, but if you say that I won't make much difference and its better to save the money and upgrade later I will do it. You obviously have ALOT of knowledge about this matter.

Thanks alot for helping me out! I appriciate it alot

By "this setup," do you mean lehtv's build? If so, :thumbsup:!

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

One word for you: Placebo. It has a powerful impact on the human mind.

If you cannot objectively measure a difference in terms of framerates, RTT, or any other metric that you care to name. There is no difference and recommending that somebody waste money on snake oil is the highest form of "offensive" in my opinion.

@ The OP and others: This is just my case scenario for Unreal Tournament III on my machine and not any current popular titles out there that use different engines. UT3 is vastly different in many ways than other games ... Maybe my setup is wrong for the game I play. But lets just consider a simple isolated change of turning HT on that made a difference in my player's online movement.

Maybe a modern processor like you mentioned would be sufficient for current games: I would say the curve in processor innovation is ahead of the game engine recommendation hardware but consider the recommended specs for UT3 were a 2.4Ghz Dual core. So the recommended specs before are just as they are today = subjective. So was my i7 920 with Hyper Threading "snake oil" for me? If you are guessing as "placebo" effect; no.

Your game here is price for performance and you know it well, my game has been playing Unreal Tournament III over the past 3+ yrs consistently so coming from an "old" engine on a 4 core processor with Hyper Threading and suggesting a Hyper Threading chip for new titles ONLY after finding if the user's game engine IS using all cores is not offensive vs not finding out and suggesting against it. You should experience this and then re-consider what is offensive and what is not.

How can I prove my claim? That's the tough part. Before I posted that last sentence in the last paragraph I took into consideration that I might be wrong because those are some pretty strong words. So I went into my bios and turned HT off, jumped in a duel match, and exactly what I've been saying holds true VS having HT on.

 

[mfenn]

How can I prove my claim? That's the tough part. Before I posted that last sentence in the last paragraph I took into consideration that I might be wrong because those are some pretty strong words. So I went into my bios and turned HT off, jumped in a duel match, and exactly what I've been saying holds true VS having HT on.

BTRY B, I have a lot of respect for you, but you can't just start throwing out claims without objective measurements or a proper testing procedure.

Here's what I suggest you do: get a tech-savvy friend to come over for a few hours. Get him to flip a coin and HT on or off based on the result while you're out of the room. He should secretly record the setting. Then play a game and secretly record which mode you think is enabled. Do this 10 or 20 times and then compare notes. If you guess correctly 75% of the time, I will completely concede that you have a point.

This is only a single-blind test instead of a proper double blind, but you would need two identical computers (or a custom BIOS) to do a double-blind.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I have a couple of ideas. They both involve recording the game while I play. There is an ingame option called Demorec *demoname* & then there is Fraps. This might be able to catch the difference. ... Ah, just got a better idea. Instead of taxing the PC with Fraps I could just use my cam and record the monitor. Maybe this will capture the stuttering with HT off. I could then post a YouTube vid if it works out.