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22" CRT - Viewsonic or NEC/Mitsu?

beatle

beatle

Diamond Member
I found out that after everything, LCDs aren't for me - at least not yet, so I'm going with a 22" CRT.

A search turned up a lot of praise for the NEC/Mitsubishi 2141/2070. The 2070 is $60 more than the 2141, but I've read that they are the same. If they're the same, why the large price difference?

Viewsonic also sells a nice looking 22" called the P225F with similar specs, and it's $10 cheaper (not a deal breaker) but I didn't see it mentioned much in the recommendations.

I'm shooting for 1600x1200 as the primary resolution. Any higher than that and I'd have to squint. The max refresh rates of each display are as follows:

2141 - 109Hz
2070 - 109Hz
P225F - 99Hz

I've read on a sites that the recommended res/refresh on these monitors is 1600x1200 @ 85Hz. I've always been a fan of high refresh rates (My Hitachi CM772 does 1280x960 @ 100 and it looks great). Is there a reason why they recommend 85 over 109?
 
no idea why they would recondn 85 over 109, could be that some cheaper video cards cant push it that high, i actually notice no diff in anything above 75Hz

the price diff between the 2141/2070 is that the 2070 is made by Mitsu and the 2141 by NEC, took me awhile to figure that out also. but you can see it here

its a great monitor, id snag it if i were you

eben manufactures website say to run 1600*1200 @ 85Hz for optimal preformance
 
The NEC and mit models are the same monitor. All I can guess is they want more money for mit name on it. They did same with the nec fp 912 and mit dp930 19" model. 930 did cost a bit more. Then they discontinued the nec 912 and just market the mit 930. I imagine they are going to do the same with the 22" and make the high end model mitsubishi.
For the refresh question and all others you may have I recommend going to nec site and having a live chat with support about the monitor. That's what I did and they were very helpful in me making up my mind. I think one of the most important things if u are getting a 22" is: do you have a quality video card. If not go with a 19". Things to consider between the viewsonic and nec is that the nec\mit high end models have a 1 gun focus system for better tighter focus and a true flat screen (diamondtron natural flat) The viewsonic actually uses a stock diamondtron tube as does the nec fe2111 and nec fe991 which is a slightly curved tube, variable pitch with flat glass in front of the tube.
NEC live chat
 
I've had the P220F for almost two years. Outstanding picture quality even to this day. People who come by and see whatever hi-rez 1600x1200 wallpaper I have up are always amazed at how vibrant it is. Get it - you won't be sorry.
 
I've had my 2141 at 1600x1200 for 100hz for more than a year now. Very very sweet. I just bought a 2001fp, I hope it's just as good.
 
The OP mentioned recommended 16x12 at 85hz.

What will happen to monitor if 16x12 bumped to 100mhz if gfx card can handle it?
 
I have had both..have teh viewsonic now. The NEC/Mitsu Diamondtron is worth the extra money. I had a Mitsu, but as stated teh NEC is the same monitor. The colors in the Diamondtron are richer and deeper. Though I like my Viewsonic alot, it looks washed out in comparison to my Old Mitsu.
 
I have a Ti4200. Does that qualify as a "quality video card?" I already have 2 19s and a 17, so I would like to get a bit more screen real estate for games with this upgrade.

I just finished talking with an NEC/Mitsu rep about the monitors. I'll post the transcript:

Mitzi Garland: Hi Matt! How may I help you?
Beatle: Hi, I have a couple questions about the NEC FE2141 and the Mitsu 2070SB
Mitzi Garland: ok
Beatle: I see that they have identical specs, but the Mitsu is $60 more, is that just the name or are there other intangibles involved?
Mitzi Garland: some slight differences in the On Screen Menu, but otherwise they have the same tube etc.
Beatle: ok, that's good... another thing about refresh rates
Beatle: I notice that they support up to 109Hz @ 1600x1200, which is the resolution I want to run
Beatle: but I've seen on some sites that they recommend 85Hz... why is that?
Mitzi Garland: that is just the recommended settings
Mitzi Garland: on CRT's that is typical
Beatle: but higher refresh rates are better, correct? Why would you not want to run the screen at 109Hz?
Mitzi Garland: some where in the mid range of the monitor - then you are not stressing the inner workings of the tube etc
Beatle: On my current monitor, a Hitachi CM772, I run 1280x960 @ 100Hz and it looks great
Mitzi Garland: the higher the refresh, the more work the monitor is doing, but it eliminates flicker
Beatle: is the display supposed to look truer/better @ 85hz or is that just to "play it safe?"
Mitzi Garland: the best way to describe it would be to suggest running your current monitor at say 60htz, then back to your normal setting - you will definately notice the difference in the amount of "flicker"
Mitzi Garland: 85 looks very nice and crisp - though it can be run higher than that
Beatle: absolutely, which is why I run the highest refresh rates possible
Beatle: do I risk damaging the monitor or causing undue stress by running it @ 100 or 109Hz?
Beatle: it just doesn't make sense to run it all the way down @ 85 when the monitor is designed for much higher refresh rates
Mitzi Garland: well it just increases the wear on the mechanical parts of the tube
Mitzi Garland: it will just add wear and tear on the mechanical hardware in the tube of the monitor
Mitzi Garland: sorry for the repeat there - had a huge delay.
Beatle: no problem
Beatle: does this wear and tear significantly shorten the life of the monitor?
Beatle: I notice you have a 3 year warranty on them. I take it I should be fine running the monitor within its specs for that length of time?
Mitzi Garland: if you stay within specs, then it should outlive the warranty
Beatle: Ok, last question. 🙂
Mitzi Garland: running a little higher wont significantly "thrash" the life expectancy
Beatle: The display should look crisper at the higher refresh rate, correct?
Beatle: This is just the first time I've seen the recommended refresh rate as a value lower than the maximum on a monitor
Mitzi Garland: for the most part - in some cases, if the resolution is really high and the refresh is high, some black text on white background will sometimes cause some hazy text - but overall that is the most common complaint
Beatle: running the display @ 85hz would remedy that?
Mitzi Garland: usually when a lcd is listed at something like 60 - 70 htz that is a set amount - but that is due to timing, with the crt displays it is an actual "redraw" of the screen
Mitzi Garland: usually lowering the refresh a little will clear up text.
Beatle: yeah, I know they're completely different animals
Mitzi Garland: oh yea! 🙂
Beatle: ok, thanks for your help, Mitzi, you've been very helpful
Mitzi Garland: you're very welcome.
Click to expand...

I'm still a little confused as to why NEC/Mitsu and Lacie (another company) recommend 16x12 @ 85 as their recommended setting when they're capable of much more.
 
I thought she was quite plain on the matter. Perhaps someone else can clear it up for you. Personally I would not worry about it. It will run 100 fine as abaez stated. I Just had an argument on high refresh rates decreasing a monitors life so I don't want to get that one started again lol. I have the 930 and toggle between 85 and 100 all the time and I can tell absolutely no difference. Perhaps you can on your other monitor but I suggest the mit has a superior gun and tube to what you presently have. I will be anxious to see if you can tell a difference on the mit\nec if you get it. Oh forgot, one thing I would go back and ask Mitzi is will the 4200 display sharp text ok on it? My assumption is yes but there are some that have gotten 22" monitors and had blurry text due to their 2d video capabilities.
 
Thanks, I understand what she said, but maybe I'm just too hardheaded to let it sink in. 🙂

I'll likely go with the NEC when the time comes.
 
As she said, running too high resolution at too high refresh rate can actually cause text to become little blurry. Lowering refresh rate will usually solve that problem. Text at high resolution is actually the sharpest at 60hz refresh rate. But that refresh rate is unusable for most people for extended period of time without hurting your eyes. Recommended resolution and refresh rate is usually the optimal setting determined by the manufacturer based on this tradeoff.
 
I'm still a little confused as to why NEC/Mitsu and Lacie (another company) recommend 16x12 @ 85 as their recommended setting when they're capable of much more.
Click to expand...

Besides higher strain, you need a top tier 2D board to push 1600x1200@100Hz and have it look sharp. I've been running a FP2141 for a while now(@ss kicking monitor) and for desktop useage a BBA R9800Pro is not a good enough board to push this monitor to its upper limits(text gets too fuzzy- @60Hz razor sharp, 85 it's bearable, 100Hz not tollerable for long).
 
I, for one, decided on running my Mitsubishi 930SB at 85Hz rather than 100Hz after trying both rates (at a res of 1280x960). As was said above, black text on white background actually seemed to be blurred a little bit more at the highest refresh rate. Maybe it was my imagination, but I found 85Hz to be slightly more comfortable for reading.
 
I can tell you Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070SB is truly a wonderful monitor! Aperture Grill, outstanding crispness and quality, excellent resolutions and refresh rates, etc. The only (small) drawback of this monitor are the stability lines you see on the monitor, horizontally and vertically. They are hardly noticable, though. Only on a completely white background they can be seen, but then again... Who works on an entirely white background? 😉 If you absolutely cannot stand such almost invisible lines, then this monitor is not for you. 😛 Otherwise, get it. 🙂
 
I'm hoping that since the monitor is larger, the lines will not be as visible. My Hitachi is a flat shadow mask monitor (no wires) and I love it.
 
You've got to be kidding. It's very very hard to tell the differance beween 85hz and 100hz. And the decrease in text quality is not worth it.
 
I was able to tell the difference between 85 and 100. I used a ti4400.

Beatle - I just bought a Dell 2001fp LCD. I am looking to sell my old 2141sb if you are interested. Granted you are in Virginia and the monitor weights a ton but if you are still looking to buy a one year old monitor let me know.
 
Yes, the 2001 is just as clear - no ghosting, only thing is the slight mouse lag I feel. 2141 is just a humongous monitor and the space tradeoff isn't worth it.
 
Mitsubishi's Diamond Pro 2040 - 2060 or 2070's are all terrific (IMHO the best ever CRT's made)
I have the 2060U and it has been nothing short of fantastic.I'm in the same boat soncerning LCD's.
It's going to take a lot more technological refinement and enhancements for LCD technology to convince me to dish out the extra $$$ for one.Sofar the only benefit I can see over my CRT would be the size/weight.
 
Originally posted by: Naustica
As she said, running too high resolution at too high refresh rate can actually cause text to become little blurry. Lowering refresh rate will usually solve that problem. Text at high resolution is actually the sharpest at 60hz refresh rate. But that refresh rate is unusable for most people for extended period of time without hurting your eyes. Recommended resolution and refresh rate is usually the optimal setting determined by the manufacturer based on this tradeoff.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
I had an IBM P275, and it also supports 1600x1200 @ 109Hz, although it would become very blurry at that refresh rate. I actually ran it at 75Hz, i can't see flicker that 75Hz anyways. From 75Hz to 85Hz, it would become a tad blurry with gray text on dark gray background. From 85Hz to 100Hz, it would become noticeably blurry.
 
Originally posted by: Subhuman25
Mitsubishi's Diamond Pro 2040 - 2060 or 2070's are all terrific (IMHO the best ever CRT's made)
I have the 2060U and it has been nothing short of fantastic..
Click to expand...

I was wondering this, because I have been shopping the refurbed NEC/Mits and the 2040/2060/2070 all seem to have the same specs (2040 does not have dual inputs, but I don't see a need for that for me).

So, if I go for any of these, the quality will be good?

What about 3rd party companies (like HP/Compaq) that use the same guts as the 2040/2060/2070?
What is the drawback there? poorer parts quality?

 
I chatted with the online help -- very nice feature, here's what they said....(if anyone else cares)

dradz: had a questoin on the 2040/2060/2070 monitors...
dradz: the specs seem all the same -- are these monitors essentially identical, just built in different years?
Mike: The 2040 wasn't quite as high end as the 2060, but both of those are out of production. Only the 2070 is current.
dradz: thanks.....and I've noticed that some 3rd party companies have Diamondtrons in them -- llike the Compaq 1220, with specs similar to the 2060/2070 -- is there a differnce there?
Mike: There are only a few actual CRT makers in the world. Any monitor not made by one of these companies will be using one of their tubes. There is also a possibility that some Mits products were sold as OEM equipment for companies like Compaq and Gateway to badge as their own, but we don't have any information about those products.
dradz: roger that, thanks -- last question are the NEC 2141 and Mits 2070u the same monitor?
Mike: Now that is true. The FP2141SB and DP2070SB are the same product sold under each company name.
dradz: Thanks for the help, Mike -- you can't recommend any place to pick up a low priced refurbished monitor, can you?
Mike: This is the only place I can recommend.
The agent is sending you to http://www.nm-select.com/.
Click to expand...
 
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