209 publicly-reported accidental shootings by children so far in 2015

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
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This website maintains statistics of accidental shootings by children. That's 209 publicly-reported shootings so far in 2015. According to the website, more than tw0-thirds (at least 140) of these shootings could have been prevented if guns kept in the home had been securely stored.

But of course that number - 209 - is a severe under-count. Because it's highly unlikely that anyone would report a shooting if they could possibly avoid it, considering the criminal liability involved. So what isn't being counted is the number of people who get shot by children but are only slightly injured, or who the bullet misses. And - of course - if a child plays with a loaded gun, but can't figure out how to release the safety or how to pull the trigger, those incidents are certainly NOT being publically reported.

So I'm going to claim that the 209 "publicly reported" (so far in 2015) incidents of people being injured or killed by accidental shootings by children actually represents thousands of incidents of children playing with loaded guns in the home. But you gun-owners have those guns in the home to protect your families, don't you? Well done.
 
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Nov 29, 2006
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I wonder how many children accidentally drank cleaning supplies or got hurt with a knife in the house.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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I love the logic of the OP. Cant prove anything so just assumes thousands of incidents based on his created scenarios. This is how and why the gun movement gets nowhere in this country. The NRA isnt your problem. It is your willingness to pass off crap as a reason to curtail a constitutional right.

Anyways how does one explain a kid being shot at the hospital if they are trying to avoid it for liability reasons? I think the number within your article is pretty much spot on. Anybody shot by a gun is going to need medical treatment of some type. Cant get around that very often.

That said, we are also talking about a miniscule amount of accidental shootings out of so many guns in circulation. And when it comes to activities where children are injured. This is pretty far down on the list of things to worry about.
 

Venix

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2002
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Fix your title and post, please. The list is "every publicly reported incident in 2015 where a person age 17 or under unintentionally kills or injures someone with a gun," not "accidental shootings of children in the home." A significant number of the victims are adults, and many of the shootings did not occur at home, like this hunting accident.

Additionally, many of the shooters are older teenagers, some of them probable criminals. Like this one, whose friend/witness is "listed in the police report as a gang member." It seems rather stupid to conflate toddlers stumbling across unsecured firearms with gang members accidentally shooting each other with illegally-acquired guns.

Next time, please take the time to read your own source before posting.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
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I wonder how many children accidentally drank cleaning supplies or got hurt with a knife in the house.
All those knives and cleaning supplies in the home are used every week in most of the hundreds of millions of households in America.

And all those handguns? Oh, that's right, they sit around unused, just waiting to be accidentally discharged.
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
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During the same time frame there were zero (0) accidental shootings of anyone by the 14 guns in my house. Then again they are properly stored unloaded in a safe.

I think this is the issue minor gun control is trying to address. Up in Canada you need a license to buy a gun or ammunition. It's a tiny hurdle that only the laziest people on the planet won't bother with - the same lazy people who leave loaded guns around the house. There are lots of guns in Canada, but the gun owners up there are more like you and less like the alternative.


I can expect America's proposed solution: let's ban all guns under all circumstances! Only Mexican drug cartels should have access to guns!
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
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Fix your title and post, please. The list is "every publicly reported incident in 2015 where a person age 17 or under unintentionally kills or injures someone with a gun," not "accidental shootings of children in the home." A significant number of the victims are adults, and many of the shootings did not occur at home, like this hunting accident.

Additionally, many of the shooters are older teenagers, some of them probable criminals. Like this one, whose friend/witness is "listed in the police report as a gang member." It seems rather stupid to conflate toddlers stumbling across unsecured firearms with gang members accidentally shooting each other with illegally-acquired guns.

Next time, please take the time to read your own source before posting.
Corrected.

208 people in 2015 killed or injured when a child in the home accidentally shot them. That's a much more comforting thought.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
I love the logic of the OP. Cant prove anything so just assumes thousands of incidents based on his created scenarios. This is how and why the gun movement gets nowhere in this country. The NRA isnt your problem. It is your willingness to pass off crap as a reason to curtail a constitutional right.

Anyways how does one explain a kid being shot at the hospital if they are trying to avoid it for liability reasons? I think the number within your article is pretty much spot on. Anybody shot by a gun is going to need medical treatment of some type. Cant get around that very often.

That said, we are also talking about a miniscule amount of accidental shootings out of so many guns in circulation. And when it comes to activities where children are injured. This is pretty far down on the list of things to worry about.
I think my figures are totally defensible. Unless your claim is that every single time a child plays with a loaded gun, he/she accidentally injures or kill someone and it gets reported. Is that your position? Or do you think the "multiplier" is more likely 2? Or 10? Or 100?

No, I think "thousands" (and probably tens of thousands) is a totally reasonable guesstimate of the number of times a child plays with a loaded gun in American households every year.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
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Don't go using logic. It's not going to work.
So your definition of "logic" is: I store my own guns safely, so it isn't a valid argument that unsafe storage of guns in households is a significant problem in America.

Let's see if I can come up with another example of "logic" like that. Okay, I've got one:

Driving under the influsence isn't a problem in America because I personally never drink and drive.

Now I know how to use "logic" the right-wing way.
 

Venix

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2002
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Corrected.

208 people in 2015 killed or injured when a child in the home accidentally shot them. That's a much more comforting thought.

That's only partially corrected. Again, the list is "every publicly reported incident in 2015 where a person age 17 or under unintentionally kills or injures someone with a gun." It is not a list of shootings "in the home."

Many of the shootings did not even occur in a house--let alone the shooter's or victim's home--and many of the shooters are "children" only by the technical legal definition of the term. If you want to talk about children playing with loaded guns because of unsafe storage, you will need to remove a significant number of incidents from this list.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
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I think my figures are totally defensible. Unless your claim is that every single time a child plays with a loaded gun, he/she accidentally injures or kill someone and it gets reported. Is that your position? Or do you think the "multiplier" is more likely 2? Or 10? Or 100?

Im not making a claim, you are. Provide us with something more than your own unfounded ideas on how many children play with guns where nothing happens.
 
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shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
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Im not making a claim, you are. Provide us with something more than your own unfounded ideas on how many children play with guns where nothing happens.
My estimate is fine. Only someone in denial - or attempting to evade dealing with the issue - would argue that 208 isn't the tip of the iceberg.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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My estimate is fine. Only someone in denial - or attempting to evade dealing with the issue - would argue that 208 isn't the tip of the iceberg.

You are free to use whatever made up number in your head you want. But good luck selling the American public on it.
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
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I think this is the issue minor gun control is trying to address. Up in Canada you need a license to buy a gun or ammunition. It's a tiny hurdle that only the laziest people on the planet won't bother with

I agree, just like people who complain about getting a license (or ID) to vote!

So your definition of "logic" is: I store my own guns safely, so it isn't a valid argument that unsafe storage of guns in households is a significant problem in America.

I do store mine safely. I do enjoy my guns, and they will not end up in the wrong hands unless someone can get through a safe, or take it off of me. I even have a few bullets tattoo'd on me, oh the horror!

Define significant. Children die by other ways far more often. While each child loss is terrible, significant is up in the air.

And as has been brought up, your thread title is wrong. A flat out lie, meant to inflame and further your agenda. So kudos so you on that. You're not alone in your ignorance, there are a few others in here already, the usual ones.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
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That's only partially corrected. Again, the list is "every publicly reported incident in 2015 where a person age 17 or under unintentionally kills or injures someone with a gun." It is not a list of shootings "in the home."

Many of the shootings did not even occur in a house--let alone the shooter's or victim's home--and many of the shooters are "children" only by the technical legal definition of the term. If you want to talk about children playing with loaded guns because of unsafe storage, you will need to remove a significant number of incidents from this list.
Boy, talk about denial.

So if it's a child playing with a gun in someone else's home or in public, that's NOT a problem? If it's a 16-year-old playing with a gun, that's okay?

Stop trying to sweep this under the rug.
 

Venix

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2002
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Boy, talk about denial.

So if it's a child playing with a gun in someone else's home or in public, that's NOT a problem? If it's a 16-year-old playing with a gun, that's okay?

Stop trying to sweep this under the rug.

I'll attempt to explain this again:

You seem to want to discuss accidental shootings caused by unsafe gun storage. Your data source is not a list of accidental shootings caused by unsafe gun storage. Your data source is also not a list of shootings that occurred "in the home." You should either provide an appropriate data source, extract relevant incidents from the existing data source, or change your focus from "accidental shootings caused by unsafe gun storage" to "all accidental shootings by minors." In any case, you should also fix your still-incorrect thread title.

I have offered no opinion about the topic of accidental shootings caused by unsafe gun storage, or about the completely separate topic of accidental shootings by minors. I am simply correcting your inaccuracies and logical errors.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
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So, 208 injuries or death in a nation with a population of 300 million including 100 million children. That's your big reason to justify stripping 300 million people of their constitutional rights?

65,000 kids ended up in the ER from accidents on trampolines. Obviously, they need to be banned. 3.5 million kids ended up with significant injuries from sports. Obviously, sports need banned. 700+ kids drowned in pools. Pools need to be banned, like all swimming. Don't even get started with skateboards, football or anything like that.

The obvious conclusion is that OP is an idiot. That's not a surprise to anyone.
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
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I agree, just like people who complain about getting a license (or ID) to vote!
You need ID to vote in Canada as well. They're pretty hardcore up there when it comes to rules and stuff. It's almost like the Nazis won the war. :awe:

voting in Canada.
If I'm not mistaken, Canada's voter turnout is higher than ours. Maybe the cold weather makes people less lazy?
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
Shira seems to have a valid point - there should be ZERO children who have unsupervised access to their parents' firearms in the house. If children are present, or will likely be present, firearms should be LOCKED securely where the children cannot access them (unless there's some sort of supervised access with the firearms. E.g., teaching the kids gun safety, how to hunt, target shooting, etc.)

This seems to me to be a very reasonable requirement for gun owners.

Shira, wtf can't you just say that, instead of attempting to abuse only a semi-relevant statistic and attempt to make up numbers from it in order to make a point that I think most gun owners would agree with?? In other words, it's a lot easier to work with a group of people with opposing viewpoints on a subject if you can find common ground without offending that group right from the start.
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
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Every day, over 300 children in the United States ages 0 to 19 are treated in an emergency department, and two children die, as a result of being poisoned.

From dcd.gov Keep those locked up?!?! Where is the outrage over chemicals under sinks?!