Question 2023 upgrade...

[BoomerD]

Anything wrong with these?

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

AsusZ790 Tuf...4 x SATA 6Gb/s ports. I need 6. The reviews for it aren't impressive.

MSI Z790 Pro, looks good. i have that in my short list. Decent reviews on Newegg And Amazon, just not many. (I know, the Z790 platform is pretty new)

ASRock Steel Legends...It's ASRock...just not crazy about their build quality...and it only has 4 SATA connectors.

I have a few others I'm looking at, some DDR5 boards as well.
It's been over a decade since I did this. (pre-Ivy Bridge) I don't remember seeing so many "top shelf" boards with so many bad reviews.

 

[igor_kavinski]

In case you haven't seen this: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-5950x-msi-b550-unify-and-ryzen-5900x-b550-gaming-edge-combos.2609722/

That 5950X with mobo looks like a pretty sweet deal.

 

[BoomerD]

In case you haven't seen this: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-5950x-msi-b550-unify-and-ryzen-5900x-b550-gaming-edge-combos.2609722/

That 5950X with mobo looks like a pretty sweet deal.

Not that familiar with the AMD stuff, but performance-wise, it looks comparable to some of the intel processors...beating a few in gaming, losing to a few. HOWEVER, the "deal" there doesn't seem like a deal to me. Motherboard looks nice...meets most of my requirements, and the package might be cheaper than retail (by a LOT)...but compared to the Intel offerings, it's nothing special...and being used...no warranty. For closer to $400, MAYBE. AMD processors seem...overpriced when comparing them to comparable Intel offerings. (I've seen it referred to as the "AMD Tax.") I can get the i9-13900K for the same price or less. $599.99 for Intel/$799.99 AMD (Amazon, not 3rd party seller)

There's an i9-12900K with a Gigabyte Z690Aorus Pro in the FS/FT forum for just a bit more than this combo. (also no warranty)That one would require me to buy DDR5 RAM, but the RAM I have isn't on the MSI QVL list for the Unify board...so, MAYBE that would need new RAM as well.

 

[In2Photos]

Not that familiar with the AMD stuff, but performance-wise, it looks comparable to some of the intel processors...beating a few in gaming, losing to a few. HOWEVER, the "deal" there doesn't seem like a deal to me. Motherboard looks nice...meets most of my requirements, and the package might be cheaper than retail (by a LOT)...but compared to the Intel offerings, it's nothing special...and being used...no warranty. For closer to $400, MAYBE. AMD processors seem...overpriced when comparing them to comparable Intel offerings. (I've seen it referred to as the "AMD Tax.") I can get the i9-13900K for the same price or less. $599.99 for Intel/$799.99 AMD (Amazon, not 3rd party seller)

There's an i9-12900K with a Gigabyte Z690Aorus Pro in the FS/FT forum for just a bit more than this combo. (also no warranty)That one would require me to buy DDR5 RAM, but the RAM I have isn't on the MSI QVL list for the Unify board...so, MAYBE that would need new RAM as well.

The 7950X is the current Ryzen top tier processor and is $569. Not sure what "AMD tax" you are referring to.

 

[BoomerD]

The 7950X is the current Ryzen top tier processor and is $569. Not sure what "AMD tax" you are referring to.

https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5950X-32-Thread-Processor/dp/B0815Y8J9N/ref=sr_1_1?crid=N7UNQBH976L8&keywords=AMD+Ryzen+9+5950X&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1672960113&refinements=p_n_feature_browse-bin:31268233011,p_89:AMD,p_6:ATVPDKIKX0DER&rnid=303116011&s=pc&sprefix=amd+ryzen+9+5950x,electronics,143&sr=1-1&ufe=app_do:amzn1.fos.4dd97f68-284f-40f5-a6f1-1e5b3de13370(yes, it's ava
(yes, it's available for less from 3rd party sellers)

how strange...

https://www.amazon.com/AMD-7950X-32-Thread-Unlocked-Processor/dp/B0BBHD5D8Y/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=AMD+Ryzen+9+7950X&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1672960170&refinements=p_6%3AATVPDKIKX0DER&rnid=303116011&s=pc&sr=1-1&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.4dd97f68-284f-40f5-a6f1-1e5b3de13370

The "AMD Tax" I mentioned is from reviewers who say the AMD processors are overpriced for what they are. You pay more for an AMD processor than for a comparable Intel processor.

 

[igor_kavinski]

but compared to the Intel offerings, it's nothing special...and being used...no warranty.

Are you saying that cpu/mobo having been used by an AT mod isn't good enough for you?

That price isn't set in stone. It may get reduced.

 

[igor_kavinski]

You pay more for an AMD processor than for a comparable Intel processor.

AMD CPUs consume less power in heavy workloads and they just trample Intel CPUs in certain workloads like this:

Intel Core i9-13900K Review - Power-Hungry Beast

With the Core i9-13900K, Intel delivers impressive performance. Our in-depth review confirms: Raptor Lake is the world's fastest CPU for gaming. Even in applications the processor is able to match AMD's Zen 4 Ryzen 9 7950X flagship. If only power consumption wasn't so high...

www.techpowerup.com

5950X is an excellent CPU for running virtual machines.

Look at the temperatures:

Intel Core i9-13900K Review - Power-Hungry Beast

With the Core i9-13900K, Intel delivers impressive performance. Our in-depth review confirms: Raptor Lake is the world's fastest CPU for gaming. Even in applications the processor is able to match AMD's Zen 4 Ryzen 9 7950X flagship. If only power consumption wasn't so high...

www.techpowerup.com

In 45 application tests, it consumes an average 87W while both 13600K and 13900K consumes a LOT more.

Intel Core i9-13900K Review - Power-Hungry Beast

With the Core i9-13900K, Intel delivers impressive performance. Our in-depth review confirms: Raptor Lake is the world's fastest CPU for gaming. Even in applications the processor is able to match AMD's Zen 4 Ryzen 9 7950X flagship. If only power consumption wasn't so high...

www.techpowerup.com

In games, the 13600K consumes less but then you are also giving up the extra threads of 5950X. As for 13900K? Too power hungry!

 

[BoomerD]

AMD CPUs consume less power in heavy workloads and they just trample Intel CPUs in certain workloads like this:

Intel Core i9-13900K Review - Power-Hungry Beast

With the Core i9-13900K, Intel delivers impressive performance. Our in-depth review confirms: Raptor Lake is the world's fastest CPU for gaming. Even in applications the processor is able to match AMD's Zen 4 Ryzen 9 7950X flagship. If only power consumption wasn't so high...

www.techpowerup.com

View attachment 74024

5950X is an excellent CPU for running virtual machines.

Look at the temperatures:

Intel Core i9-13900K Review - Power-Hungry Beast

With the Core i9-13900K, Intel delivers impressive performance. Our in-depth review confirms: Raptor Lake is the world's fastest CPU for gaming. Even in applications the processor is able to match AMD's Zen 4 Ryzen 9 7950X flagship. If only power consumption wasn't so high...

www.techpowerup.com

In 45 application tests, it consumes an average 87W while both 13600K and 13900K consumes a LOT more.

Intel Core i9-13900K Review - Power-Hungry Beast

With the Core i9-13900K, Intel delivers impressive performance. Our in-depth review confirms: Raptor Lake is the world's fastest CPU for gaming. Even in applications the processor is able to match AMD's Zen 4 Ryzen 9 7950X flagship. If only power consumption wasn't so high...

www.techpowerup.com

In games, the 13600K consumes less but then you are also giving up the extra threads of 5950X. As for 13900K? Too power hungry!

AMD CPUs consume less power in heavy workloads and they just trample Intel CPUs in certain workloads like this:

Intel Core i9-13900K Review - Power-Hungry Beast

With the Core i9-13900K, Intel delivers impressive performance. Our in-depth review confirms: Raptor Lake is the world's fastest CPU for gaming. Even in applications the processor is able to match AMD's Zen 4 Ryzen 9 7950X flagship. If only power consumption wasn't so high...

www.techpowerup.com

View attachment 74024

5950X is an excellent CPU for running virtual machines.

Look at the temperatures:

Intel Core i9-13900K Review - Power-Hungry Beast

With the Core i9-13900K, Intel delivers impressive performance. Our in-depth review confirms: Raptor Lake is the world's fastest CPU for gaming. Even in applications the processor is able to match AMD's Zen 4 Ryzen 9 7950X flagship. If only power consumption wasn't so high...

www.techpowerup.com

In 45 application tests, it consumes an average 87W while both 13600K and 13900K consumes a LOT more.

Intel Core i9-13900K Review - Power-Hungry Beast

With the Core i9-13900K, Intel delivers impressive performance. Our in-depth review confirms: Raptor Lake is the world's fastest CPU for gaming. Even in applications the processor is able to match AMD's Zen 4 Ryzen 9 7950X flagship. If only power consumption wasn't so high...

www.techpowerup.com

In games, the 13600K consumes less but then you are also giving up the extra threads of 5950X. As for 13900K? Too power hungry!

I absolutely agree about the 13900K. way, WAY too power hungry (and hard to cool) for my needs. I'm looking at the i5-13600K and the i7-12700K (and KF variant) right now. Those are both far less power hungry, easier to cool, and still more than I NEED. Is the 5950X a bad processor? It looks hella good...for Team Red. (It's kind of like the Ford/Chevy thing...and you'd never get me to own a Chevy..although I have looked enviously at the fancy fold-out step tailgate on the GMC trucks)

As for the thread count between the i5-13600K and the 5950X, I doubt I'll ever notice...I don't do any real work on my PC...but I do game at 1440.

I'm still KIND OF open to the AMD combo...I've NEVER built with AMD in well over 20 years of doing this. I've owned to pre-builts that had AMD processors in them. One Dell that was for my wife's Avon business,so it didn't need to do much, and one laptop (that I still have but rarely ever use from...2016 maybe) Both sucked.

 

[igor_kavinski]

One Dell that was for my wife's Avon business,so it didn't need to do much, and one laptop (that I still have but rarely ever use from...2016 maybe) Both sucked.

Maybe bad luck or both had bottom of the barrel chips?

 

[In2Photos]

The "AMD Tax" I mentioned is from reviewers who say the AMD processors are overpriced for what they are. You pay more for an AMD processor than for a comparable Intel processor.

If the reviews you mention are for the Ryzen 7000 series there was some legitimacy about the platform price at launch. AMD priced its CPUs slightly higher than previous generations, but the real expense was in the motherboard (X670) and RAM costs as Ryzen 7000 series required DDR5 memory, which were all new this generation. Intel surprisingly undercut AMD at launch with their CPU prices, but because you could still use a previous generation motherboard and DDR4 memory the platform cost was less than AMD. AMD has since launched new motherboards (B650) and DDR5 pricing has come down. They also cut CPU prices. This brought the platform costs down considerably, enough for me to go with Ryzen 7000 over 5000 for my daughter's new PC.

I absolutely agree about the 13900K. way, WAY too power hungry (and hard to cool) for my needs. I'm looking at the i5-13600K and the i7-12700K (and KF variant) right now. Those are both far less power hungry, easier to cool, and still more than I NEED. Is the 5950X a bad processor? It looks hella good...for Team Red. (It's kind of like the Ford/Chevy thing...and you'd never get me to own a Chevy..although I have looked enviously at the fancy fold-out step tailgate on the GMC trucks)

As for the thread count between the i5-13600K and the 5950X, I doubt I'll ever notice...I don't do any real work on my PC...but I do game at 1440.

I'm still KIND OF open to the AMD combo...I've NEVER built with AMD in well over 20 years of doing this. I've owned to pre-builts that had AMD processors in them. One Dell that was for my wife's Avon business,so it didn't need to do much, and one laptop (that I still have but rarely ever use from...2016 maybe) Both sucked.

The 5950X is a great CPU! But I don't know if I would buy it strictly for gaming. There are other options that are better suited for a gaming only scenario. The 5950X really shines in heavy CPU workloads where it is one of the most power efficient chips on the market. It still games well, but you wouldn't really utilize all of the CPU during gaming. In regards to your pre-builts, was it the AMD CPU that made it suck or something else? I find that most PCs I have used I don't equate the overall performance/usability of the PC to just the CPU. Normally the experience is based on other factors. For instance my current work laptop is a Dell XPS 15 that came highly reviewed. While it is faster than my previous Lenovo I have FAR more issues with it than I ever had on my Lenovo. Since it doesn't have a dedicated Ethernet port I have to use an adapter. I have used several different ones but I experience an issue where the adapters will stop working after connecting to specific devices. I never had this problem on the Lenovo connecting to the same devices. When this happens the laptop will also not restart properly. I have to hold down the power button to shut it down. But I don't attribute most of my issues to the CPU (which is an Intel) other than the thing running hot and needing ridiculous fan speeds to keep it cool. I had to revert the BIOS back a few generations so I could undervolt the CPU and keep it quiet. It was actually so loud I got complaints on Zoom calls about it.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I had to revert the BIOS back a few generations so I could undervolt the CPU and keep it quiet. It was actually so loud I got complaints on Zoom calls about it.

How do you undervolt a laptop? Using Intel XTU or some other software? Is Dell really so stupid that it is preventing undervolting in newer BIOS to prevent users from fixing the problem that they should actually fix in their BIOS??? Unbelievable!

 

[In2Photos]

How do you undervolt a laptop? Using Intel XTU or some other software? Is Dell really so stupid that it is preventing undervolting in newer BIOS to prevent users from fixing the problem that they should actually fix in their BIOS??? Unbelievable!

I'm using Throttlestop. And yes, in the BIOS there is a setting that automatically updates the laptop to the latest BIOS revision as soon as it becomes available. After a few revisions they stopped allowing undervolting. So I had to disable automatic BIOS updates, revert back to an older BIOS, and then enable the undervolt in Thottlestop. It is well documented. I was surprised when I started looking for solutions to the loud fans how many people out there were looking to do the same thing and this, not once, was mentioned in any reviews.

 

[BoomerD]

Maybe bad luck or both had bottom of the barrel chips?

Pretty sure it was just bottom of the barrel chips. The desktop was (is since it's in my garage) is some Athlon model...probably an X2 something. The laptop...I'd have to get it out and plug it in...and wait 10 minutes for it to boot up and actually be ready to run.

 

[BoomerD]

So, I'm still leaning toward the i5-13600K. It's only about $10 more than the i7-12700K, although about $45 more than the i7-12700KF.

For me, the biggest unknown is the motherboard.
I've looked VERY hard at DDR5 boards, but for almost all of the ones I've considered, it will add $200-$300 more between the increased cost of the board and buying DDR5 RAM.

Over the past ~30 years, I've built (for myself or others) maybe a dozen PCs. In almost every case, I went with a mid-grade ASUS board because of quality and feature set. That seems to no longer be the case. (except in the high-end ROG lines) Their boards in the $250-$400 range all have pretty bad reviews. (unless I'm missing something major)

I've spent a couple of days reading reviews from some of the bigger tech sites, perused the reviews and ratings at Newegg, Amazon, and B&H.
To my great surprise, it seems like MSI (in spite of a few bad reviews about broken parts in sealed boxes) seems to have taken the lead.
My board REQUIREMENTS are:
Less than $400,
no fewer than 2 M.2 sockets,
6 or more SATA3 connections,
no fewer than 6 USB Type A ports on the rear IO, (don't care if they include 2.0, 3.0, 3.1 v.1, 3.1 v.2, etc...most of my stuff won't know the difference )
BIOS Flashback (I don't have a 12th gen CPU to use to update the BIOS)

After all that, the following are the ones with the highest reviews that meet my requirements:

MSI Pro Z790-A DDR4 (4.855 )
MSI Pro Z690-A DDR4 (4.733 )
MSI MPG Z690 EDGE WIFI DDR4 (4.60)
MSI Z790 MAG Tomahawk DDR4 (4.504)
MSI Z690 MAG Tomahawk DDR4 (4.567)
GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS ELITE AX-DDR4 (4.350)
ASUS ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming WiFi D4 (4.333)
(ratings are averaged from the 3 sites listed above)

Common parts, regardless of CPU/Motherboard are:
I already have:
be quiet! Dark Base Pro 900 case (lots of room for everything)
Seasonic Focus + 750 watt PSU
EVGA RTX3070 FTW3
32 GB (2x16) Corsair Vengance LPX DDR3600 RAM (not actually in any of the QVL for any board, but SUPPOSDED to be compatible with the DDR4 boards)
WD SN770 2TB SSD
HP EX950 1TB SSD
Samsung DVD burner (I have 2, but nowadays, only need one...rarely, so COULD just not put it in)

Haven't bought YET, but on the list:
WD SA520 SSD 1TB (open to a different SSD)
Arctic Cooling liquid Freezer II 280mm (probably ARGB, maybe not) (I could POSSIBLY fit a 360mm or 420mm cooler if I forego the DVD burner)
will probably add:
Thermalright CPU Contact Bracket
GPU Brace

I've looked hard at DDR5 boards (and did the review averaging) and the ones that meet my needs will add at least $200-$300 to the build costs. (higher board prices plus purchase of 32GB of DDR5 RAM)

This is kind of strange territory for me. I've never even considered MSI for a build before. Their documentation (as compared to ASUS or ASRock) really sucks...but their boards seem decent.

Opinions? Advice?

Thanks.

 

[igor_kavinski]

MSI Pro Z790-A DDR4 or MSI Z790 MAG Tomahawk DDR4 with 13600K would be my choice from your list of options.

Instead of AIO, how about this?

The Iceberg Thermal IceSLEET G6 Stealth Review: Top-Tier Colossal Tower Cooler

www.anandtech.com

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B7SNP2JN/

 

[BoomerD]

MSI Pro Z790-A DDR4 or MSI Z790 MAG Tomahawk DDR4 with 13600K would be my choice from your list of options.

Instead of AIO, how about this?

The Iceberg Thermal IceSLEET G6 Stealth Review: Top-Tier Colossal Tower Cooler

www.anandtech.com

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B7SNP2JN/

Those two combinations are at the top of my list as well. Don't care if the board is decked out with the bling-y RGB stuff. (but I DO like it none the less) The last time I built a PC, cold-cathode tubes were about all the case lighting available...(2010 or 2011) I don't remember RGB stuff being available then. (could have been...just don't remember it)

That cooler is just...odd looking. (cheap as chips though) I already have a Noctua ND-D-15 chromax black that I bought when I was going to use my ancient Coolermaster HAF 932 case. I COULD keep it...I have plenty of room for it, but I like the cleaner look and (somewhat) quieter noise levels of the AIO coolers, so was planning on returning it. If I stay with an air cooler, I'll have to add a fan or two to the top of the case. It's pretty closed off to air flow, but has a few slits/vents for air to travel.

 

[Tech Junky]

considered MSI for a build before. Their documentation (as compared to ASUS or ASRock)

I used an MSI briefly on my 8700K build and it worked fine. I just needed something with more slots to play with moving cards around.

When building for ADL though ASR took the cake for price and options. If you really need a ton of USB ports get a hub and don't let that be a factor in picking a board.

The versatility with ASR is better than some others. I was able to add a TB4 card for $60 off Amazon compared to other cards that's 50% off.

The draw of ASR though if you want to save money is the options you can add cheaper than if they're built on. There's even a board that has a gen 5 M2 slot - velocita.

Considering you can get a steel legend for under $200 and the lowest I saw recently was $140 through NE on a flash sale it's a good deal.

 

[In2Photos]

I've owned several MSI boards including my X58 Pro which is still running 24/7 from 2009. The latest MSI board was a B550 Tomahawk for my son's build. The Tomahawk line has been one of the most popular over the last couple of series due to it's price/features/performance.

As for the cooler pick the size you want the most since you rarely use the DVD burner. You could always pick up an external one if you need it. the 280 and 360 will have similar cooling capabilities.

 

[BoomerD]

I used an MSI briefly on my 8700K build and it worked fine. I just needed something with more slots to play with moving cards around.

When building for ADL though ASR took the cake for price and options. If you really need a ton of USB ports get a hub and don't let that be a factor in picking a board.

The versatility with ASR is better than some others. I was able to add a TB4 card for $60 off Amazon compared to other cards that's 50% off.

The draw of ASR though if you want to save money is the options you can add cheaper than if they're built on. There's even a board that has a gen 5 M2 slot - velocita.

Considering you can get a steel legend for under $200 and the lowest I saw recently was $140 through NE on a flash sale it's a good deal.

I looked at the Velocita Z690. Apparently not many have been sold...very few reviews, and they're not great. (cumulative 4.1) It's DDR5 and $309.

The Z690 Steel Legend WiFi 6E looks interesting. Doesn't review great, (cumulative 4.3) but the price...wow. $171.99 at Amazon.

My current PC is an IBuyPower pre-built I snagged from Costco. it has an ASR Phantom Gaming 4 mobo. NOT very impressive...and it's dying after less than 4 years.

 

[BoomerD]

I've owned several MSI boards including my X58 Pro which is still running 24/7 from 2009. The latest MSI board was a B550 Tomahawk for my son's build. The Tomahawk line has been one of the most popular over the last couple of series due to it's price/features/performance.

As for the cooler pick the size you want the most since you rarely use the DVD burner. You could always pick up an external one if you need it. the 280 and 360 will have similar cooling capabilities.

Thanks. I'm looking hard at the Tomahawk line.
I already have an external housing for the DVD. It works SOMETIMES...Depending on who's doing the review, the 280 and 360 take turns at being a few degrees better than the other. (which is why I opted for the 280)

 

[Tech Junky]

I looked at the Velocita Z690. Apparently not many have been sold...very few reviews, and they're not great. (cumulative 4.1) It's DDR5 and $309.

The Z690 Steel Legend WiFi 6E looks interesting. Doesn't review great, (cumulative 4.3) but the price...wow. $171.99 at Amazon.

My current PC is an IBuyPower pre-built I snagged from Costco. it has an ASR Phantom Gaming 4 mobo. NOT very impressive...and it's dying after less than 4 years.

The Velocita was high priced when released and if people weren't digging into the details they didn't see the gen 5 socket.

I've had my SL up running 24/7 for over a year besides kernel upgrade reboots and it's been solid. I've had a couple other ASR boards though too that held up great for extended periods of time in the same 24/7 setup.

I'd put the SL in the mid to upper tier for options for the price. When they launched they were 250-300 depending on the version and retailer.

 

[BoomerD]

Ordered the MSI Z690 Tomahawk DDR4, i5-13600K, Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer II 280mm, and a few other bits and bobs. For some reason, even though I have Prime and things were ordered (where possible) with Amazon as the seller, parts will be dribbling in over the next 2 weeks.

Thanks to all who chimed in with advice and opinions.

 

[Tech Junky]

Amazon

I think their systems are jacked up. I ordered some car stuff the other day and their projected delivery was all over the place but, things are all arriving this week. Mostly sooner than the initial quote.

 

[BoomerD]

I think their systems are jacked up. I ordered some car stuff the other day and their projected delivery was all over the place but, things are all arriving this week. Mostly sooner than the initial quote.

Not nearly as jacked up as their search engine...enter "XYZ," get results for ABC, ADY, BGE, etc...and IF you're lucky, you might get one or two XYZ.

 

[Tech Junky]

Not nearly as jacked up as their search engine...enter "XYZ," get results for ABC, ADY, BGE, etc...and IF you're lucky, you might get one or two XYZ.

I ran into some of that as well even though I was using specific part numbers. Adding the car filter though slimmed the results significantly for some of them. Spent more time cross checking numbers to smek sure they would work on different sites as well a price comparing. Amazon tends to have a markup on things to compensate for their fees they charge sellers on certain items. I ran into one item that was $27 but they wanted $30 for shipping. Ended up having to source it for a more reasonable $39 shipped from another site. They're good though for projects where you only need one use and return though.