2012 Focus Wagon coming to the US

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HAL9000

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Arkaign said:
I would agree with you handily were we talking about the outgoing 2010 and previous models, but the new ones have to be seen to be believed. The 2011 GT and V6 are monstrously good handlers. The GT puts down track times neck and neck with the current M3, and that's been proven on track after track. The V6 has even better skidpad and slalom numbers than the GT, due to the same suspension (track pack, optional on V6, standard on GT) combining with lower weight.

So, putting 2 and 2 together, the Focus would not destroy the current mustang in handling, and unless the Focus is magically better than the M3 (impossible, given the tests I've seen), it's almost certainly less capable than the current V6 Mustang.
Click to expand...

I'll have to see this mustang in action. I'll let Top Gear decide.
 
Arkaign

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
HAL9000 said:
I'll have to see this mustang in action. I'll let Top Gear decide.
Click to expand...

I love TG:UK, and look forward to a hopeful appearance by the 2011+ models on that show. I can understand the difficulty in believing what I'm saying, but there are literally dozens of head-to-heads with the Mustang vs. (insert benchmark car here) out there with video and stats of what they found, the Mustang vs. M3 being the most interesting.

IIRC, the last Mustang on TG was the terrible, bloated, and utterly obsolete GT500. That thing was much heavier than even the standard V8 4.6L Mustang, and just was a terrible track car in general. Total opposite idea from what the new one is about. That was a silly TG though, they ran it through a dyno and make funny comments about it not putting the 500hp to the wheels, which is idiotic considering no car is advertised with the BHP that is actually delivered to the wheels, they use crank HP. Look up Lambo LP640 dyno or Focus RS dynos, and you'll see that the "640hp" and "300hp" actually hit the wheels at quite a bit less due to drivetrain losses.

But yeah, there's a truly massive disconnect between the 2010 and older Mustangs, and the '11+. It's probably the most considerable model upgrade I've ever seen in my 34 years on this planet. The new V6 base model is as fast as the outgoing full V8 GT, and handles better to boot, while the old V6 was utterly useless at everything. It even gets 30+mpg highway, which would work out to something like 32-33mpg using UK Imperial gallons.
 
HAL9000

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Arkaign said:
I love TG:UK, and look forward to a hopeful appearance by the 2011+ models on that show. I can understand the difficulty in believing what I'm saying, but there are literally dozens of head-to-heads with the Mustang vs. (insert benchmark car here) out there with video and stats of what they found, the Mustang vs. M3 being the most interesting.

IIRC, the last Mustang on TG was the terrible, bloated, and utterly obsolete GT500. That thing was much heavier than even the standard V8 4.6L Mustang, and just was a terrible track car in general. Total opposite idea from what the new one is about. That was a silly TG though, they ran it through a dyno and make funny comments about it not putting the 500hp to the wheels, which is idiotic considering no car is advertised with the BHP that is actually delivered to the wheels, they use crank HP. Look up Lambo LP640 dyno or Focus RS dynos, and you'll see that the "640hp" and "300hp" actually hit the wheels at quite a bit less due to drivetrain losses.

But yeah, there's a truly massive disconnect between the 2010 and older Mustangs, and the '11+. It's probably the most considerable model upgrade I've ever seen in my 34 years on this planet. The new V6 base model is as fast as the outgoing full V8 GT, and handles better to boot, while the old V6 was utterly useless at everything. It even gets 30+mpg highway, which would work out to something like 32-33mpg using UK Imperial gallons.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, like I say I'll wait for the Top Gear review in the Magazine, they have all of them in there generally.
 
ThatsABigOne

ThatsABigOne

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
4,422
23
81
Lol you think Top Gear is a very serious and a conclusive show? It is just an entertainment.
 
Arkaign

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
HAL9000 said:
Fair enough, like I say I'll wait for the Top Gear review in the Magazine, they have all of them in there generally.
Click to expand...

Cool :) I wish we had TG magazine here, I've seen it at a couple of bookstores now and again, but's not easy to come by.

If you get curious, this is a funny showdown between M3 and Mustang :

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...stang_gt_vs_2011_bmw_m3_comparison/index.html

Personally, if both were free, I'd rather have the M3, but it's a testament to incredible value that a car literally half the price (US street prices) is able to match up against one of the best in the world without really missing a beat.

.09s (yes, less than 1/10th of a second) between them at a brutal little course.
 
HAL9000

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Arkaign said:
Cool :) I wish we had TG magazine here, I've seen it at a couple of bookstores now and again, but's not easy to come by.

If you get curious, this is a funny showdown between M3 and Mustang :

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...stang_gt_vs_2011_bmw_m3_comparison/index.html

Personally, if both were free, I'd rather have the M3, but it's a testament to incredible value that a car literally half the price (US street prices) is able to match up against one of the best in the world without really missing a beat.

.09s (yes, less than 1/10th of a second) between them at a brutal little course.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Bookmarked for later :)
 
DivideBYZero

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
Arkaign said:
Cool :) I wish we had TG magazine here, I've seen it at a couple of bookstores now and again, but's not easy to come by.

If you get curious, this is a funny showdown between M3 and Mustang :

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...stang_gt_vs_2011_bmw_m3_comparison/index.html

Personally, if both were free, I'd rather have the M3, but it's a testament to incredible value that a car literally half the price (US street prices) is able to match up against one of the best in the world without really missing a beat.

.09s (yes, less than 1/10th of a second) between them at a brutal little course.
Click to expand...

There is much more to a car than pure numbers, however, and as a former BMW owner, you know that. ;)

Anyway, if the focus is popular in wagon form, maybe Ford will bring the Mondeo version:

1.jpg
 
N

NAC

Golden Member
Dec 30, 2000
1,105
11
81
jaydee said:
This was posted a month ago. I'm a member at the FIN site, and honestly don't believe this. Ford plays very close to the chest, not much gets leaked out and this member isn't credible IMO because he has never "broke" any exclusive news before. He has no details other than "it's coming", no dates, no quotes from "his source", nothing. I'm quite convinced that this guy is just guessing that it's coming and is waiting to take all sorts of credit if it does come, and if it doesn't say "it was coming and they cancelled it at the last moment".

Another thing, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me in Ford's lineup, with the new C-Max (PHEV and traditional hybrid included) and next-gen Escape all serving similar market segments riding on the same platform as the Focus.
Click to expand...

:( I didn't see this posted in AT. I was just crossing my fingers he has credibility and it is for real. Bummer.

Oh well, I still have hopes that Chevy or Hyudai/Kia will bring over a small wagon.

There will be an Elantra Touring, but supposedly it will be a smaller hatch instead of a longer wagon.

Sigh. I guess nobody wants my $25k except VW.
 
Throckmorton

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Zargon said:
the hot focus is AWD throck(atleast some of them are and they claimed to be bringing an AWD one over)

HP wise its a small displacement turbo so it should be easy to coax some more out of unless its netuered with a dinky maxd out turbo ala the og WRX in the US.

the WRX starts at ~26K, has less HP(265 v 305)

26K for the V6 premium(lets be honest, the RS will be kitted out inside so a base stang wont compare that well) or 30K for a GT. The stang is bigger, rwd and similar power unless you add the V8

if they priced it in the mid 20's there is a market, but the closer to 30 they get it starts to infringe mustang gt territory


without AWD its a waste of time of course.
Click to expand...

So apparently the 300hp FOcus does 0-60 in 5.9 seconds? Let me get this straight... a compact car with as much horsepower as a ye olde Supra takes almost 6 seconds to get to 60mph? Is that what we call progress?

And I'm guessing the AWD is not symmetrical, but rather FWD until the front wheels slip?
 
HAL9000

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Throckmorton said:
So apparently the 300hp FOcus does 0-60 in 5.9 seconds? Let me get this straight... a compact car with as much horsepower as a ye olde Supra takes almost 6 seconds to get to 60mph? Is that what we call progress?

And I'm guessing the AWD is not symmetrical, but rather FWD until the front wheels slip?
Click to expand...

Apparently the FWD in the Focus has some kind of trick differential so under steer isn't a massive issue.
 
Arkaign

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
HAL9000 said:
Apparently the FWD in the Focus has some kind of trick differential so under steer isn't a massive issue.
Click to expand...

As someone who has owned good measures of both (prelude SH w/jackson sc and e39 M5), FWD is always an issue. You simply have no active way to use oversteer for fun/accuracy, unless you artificially do it using ebrake (note rally drivers doing this). Focus RS is supposedly the best example yet of clever solutions to common FWD problems, but let's face it, no credible sports car is FWD in the big picture, and that's for fundamental reasons that nobody has yet been able to credibly bend.
 
sdifox

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
100,741
18,041
126
wagon= extend rear cabin to the end of the trunk
hatchback= taking the sedan and change the real windshield and trunk lid and make them one piece.

At least that is what it seems to me.

I want wagon.
 
Doppel

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
Until/unless gas prices force people to smaller cars, trading SUVs and vans for wagons, the wagon in the United States will continue to be of little interest to most buyers who are still able to afford the large vehicle status symbol.
 
J

jaydee

Diamond Member
May 6, 2000
4,500
4
81
NAC said:
:( I didn't see this posted in AT. I was just crossing my fingers he has credibility and it is for real. Bummer.

Oh well, I still have hopes that Chevy or Hyudai/Kia will bring over a small wagon.

There will be an Elantra Touring, but supposedly it will be a smaller hatch instead of a longer wagon.

Sigh. I guess nobody wants my $25k except VW.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant that it was posted over at FIN about a month ago, not AT. Have you looked at the different C-Max's? GM's been rumored to make a US wagon for the new Buick Regal, but I haven't heard anything about it for about a year. Even if it does come though, I'm betting you're looking at about $30k.
 
N

NAC

Golden Member
Dec 30, 2000
1,105
11
81
I heard about the Buick. I believe it will be an automatic only, making it a no-go for me. Plus it is a good amount bigger and heavier than a Focus wagon.

The C-Max's are so-so. I don't really want the higher body, and higher center of gravity, and prefer the look of a wagon over a small minivan.

Oh well. I'll continue to wait.
 
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