2011's Global Cooling

[CADsortaGUY]

Since you didn't answer I'll assume you don't actually dispute what I said.

Normal is what "we" want it to be. Which is the weather patterns that have driven the location of our cities and farms.

Tell me if you were a farming conglomerate or insurance company would you be concerned by what I posted above?

It's not worth answering because it's a narrowly focused path of questions that prevents a broader view - which is usually a byproduct of being a believer. Can't dare look outside the path, lest you lose focus on your faith...


So normal is decided by farmers or insurance companies? Or rather our gov't because they will push the gov't to attempt to steer the climate to their liking. It would be semi-rational if the believers could replicate it or show proof they had the power to do so but they don't because outside the narrow scope of "co2 is a greenhouse gas" it starts to fall apart.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Yes we are obviously the reason for the change. From everything we have looked at man is a big driver in the current climate change.

It doesn't, no one is saying that the climate didn't change before, we know it has and changes constantly. But this isn't an argument again MMGW. We just need to look at other causes for the other shifts in climate. Such as volcanic eruptions, meteor impact, natural cycles, sun output, wobble of the earth, movement of continents,.... There are tons of things that can cause the climate to change. Some minor others major.

So you are wondering if the current change is "normal"? And your argument is that what we are experiencing now is normal, and we would have the planet would have the exact same rise in temperature if we weren't here?

I'm not arguing for normal - I'm arguing against the believers claiming it's MM. It's irrationally arrogant to claim we are the driver. The changes have been happening for eons - but it's man who is causing it today...

 

[Paul98]

It's not worth answering because it's a narrowly focused path of questions that prevents a broader view - which is usually a byproduct of being a believer. Can't dare look outside the path, lest you lose focus on your faith...


So normal is decided by farmers or insurance companies? Or rather our gov't because they will push the gov't to attempt to steer the climate to their liking. It would be semi-rational if the believers could replicate it or show proof they had the power to do so but they don't because outside the narrow scope of "co2 is a greenhouse gas" it starts to fall apart.

I know you agree that the climate is changing, since you do what do you think is causing it?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

I know you agree that the climate is changing, since you do what do you think is causing it?

What caused it 10K years ago?

 

[Paul98]

I'm not arguing for normal - I'm arguing against the believers claiming it's MM. It's irrationally arrogant to claim we are the driver. The changes have been happening for eons - but it's man who is causing it today...

So what is causing the change today? Do you not believe man has put a huge amount of green house gasses that were stored in the earth into the atmosphere? That were much lower before we started burning them. Sure they may have been higher in the past at some points, but they get there for a reason. There are lots of reasons, but today man is the reason.

We know the climate has changed before and we have explanations about why many of these changes happened.

 

[werepossum]

I know you agree that the climate is changing, since you do what do you think is causing it?

Climate has been generally trending warmer since the last ice age, and it will continue to do so until the next ice age. This is what happens. What is so funny about proponents of CAGW (now called climate change when it's not hotter, with the anthropogenic and catastrophic implied but fiercely defended) is how they call skeptics "climate deniers". Skeptics believe that the Earth warms and cools continually, in many different cycles and in response to many different things. Believers believe that the Earth had a stable temperature and then mankind made it change. So which side denies climate again?

 

[Brigandier]

I say humans warm as much as they can, if I can help prevent a future ice age, I will have saved humanity!

 

[Throckmorton]

Climate has been generally trending warmer since the last ice age, and it will continue to do so until the next ice age. This is what happens. What is so funny about proponents of CAGW (now called climate change when it's not hotter, with the anthropogenic and catastrophic implied but fiercely defended) is how they call skeptics "climate deniers". Skeptics believe that the Earth warms and cools continually, in many different cycles and in response to many different things. Believers believe that the Earth had a stable temperature and then mankind made it change. So which side denies climate again?

The rate is much higher than the norm, which should probably be negative right now, and it's higher directly because of our GG emission. It's really simple too... a certain amount of GG results in a certain amount of energy retention, which produces a certain amount of heating. You can't magically wish away the warming, any more than you can magically wish away the warming of a blanket on your body.

A certain amount of warming applied gradually could prevent the next ice age, but we've gone way beyond that amount already.

 

[Paul98]

What caused it 10K years ago?

So you don't have another explanation of why the climate changed?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

So you don't have another explanation of why the climate changed?

What caused previous changes since 10K years ago couldn't be answered.

 

[Jaskalas]

It's stuff like this stupidity that gets me.

This is a colder year, the US is up to 5 degrees colder than average, the water around us is colder, but it's always the same propaganda. All weather, every weather, is due to man-made warming.

Tornadoes have been on the decline as we've warmed this past century. Soon as it gets cold and we have a major outbreak, it's blamed on the warming that does not exist at this time.

ROSIE O’DONNELL (Tuesday 24 May 2011): It’s hard to find a reason that is not environmentally centered, that [doesn't have] something to do with global warming or what the planet is going through. The amount of tornadoes…it’s like three times the highest amount ever before, right? Something weird is happening with all of these natural catastrophes.

JANETTE BARBER: It’s global warming. People can say whatever they like. It’s global warming.

 

[Paratus]

It's not worth answering because it's a narrowly focused path of questions that prevents a broader view - which is usually a byproduct of being a believer. Can't dare look outside the path, lest you lose focus on your faith...


So normal is decided by farmers or insurance companies? Or rather our gov't because they will push the gov't to attempt to steer the climate to their liking. It would be semi-rational if the believers could replicate it or show proof they had the power to do so but they don't because outside the narrow scope of "co2 is a greenhouse gas" it starts to fall apart.

I accept MMGW because I believe in the scientific method. I've spelled out the overarching theory.

Your argument against has become very wishy-washy, "broader path" and calls of "believers". Just open my mind enough to fall out and anything is possible!

Not everyone is cut out for rational thinking or responsibility it seems.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

I accept MMGW because I believe in the scientific method. I've spelled out the overarching theory.

Your argument against has become very wishy-washy, "broader path" and calls of "believers". Just open my mind enough to fall out and anything is possible!

Not everyone is cut out for rational thinking or responsibility it seems.

I agree, that's why it seems you and your types won't leave the talking points - lest you actually look at the whole.

Now can you answer what paul98 couldn't?

 

[p0nd]

What caused it 10K years ago?

didn't you read my post?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

didn't you read my post?

missed it, sorry.

So are you a MMGW believer?

 

[Paratus]

I agree, that's why it seems you and your types won't leave the talking points - lest you actually look at the whole.

Now can you answer what paul98 couldn't?

My type! LOL! What's my type? That's awesome!

Well there's talking points and there's talking points. Some are based on reason to illuminate and others are there to obfuscate.

And no I didn't have the answer to your question. I'd be guessing, although I know it would be a combination solar flux, orbital variation, Earth's inclination, and atmospheric composition.

Now off to finish my lawn which hasn't had rain in two months.

 

[NeoV]

i love how the op pretends he came up with this stuff on his own

nevermind the fact that its not accurate


as for cad.....simpleton...this whole mindset of 'how arrogant of man to think he can influence the climate on earth'....

this isn't 1450 anymore

there are 6 BILLION people on the planet

how many times do we have to debunk the 'sun' is the reason for everything?

the only valid point the op makes is that for someone to say these tornadoes are 100% due to 'global warming' - there is no good way to prove either side of that

 

[Nemesis 1]

I am posting to show you the awesome power of this planet’s oceans and the effect they have using a collection of the empirical evidence we have at hand. The Pacific Decadal Osculation (PDO) shifted cold last decade and the effects are beginning to be felt. Global Warming is being countered.

How long this will last, and to what effect I do not know. Theory goes that man-made global warming does not exist and cyclical effects dominate our weather and climate. A cold PDO suggests cooling over 20 - 30 years. Of course it will not be linear and it will have both its ups and downs. The transition from 2010 to 2011 shows how quickly things can change.

I look forward to seeing where this will take us by 2020 and if nothing significant presents itself throughout this decade, then all the counter arguments to Global Warming must be reconsidered if not taken off the table. In short, these sorts of things will determine the strength of the arguments for both sides.

With last decade’s flat trend, it’ll be interesting to see where this one takes us.

First, I’d like to point out the flip in the pacific as shown by ESNO.

I will now enter the following evidence for the recent cooling of 2011.

Global Temperature:
After 2010’s ‘warmest year ever’ we have seen the global temperature dip below average in 2011, a rather healthy rebound.

Sea Level:
A steady rise in sea level has been halted. We are now below 2004 levels.

Western snow pack:
Record breaking snow pack in the western mountains. Much of it 200-300% above average.

Tornadoes:
2011's violent tornadoes are contrary to the warming trend of fewer violent tornadoes.

United States May Temperature:
Below average.

Surrounding Water Temperature:
Also below average.

In conclusion, warmth is not causing our current weather in 2011. Cold is causing it as displayed by the global temp’s fall, the sea level’s fall, the record snow, tornadoes, and current US air and water temps.

This all happens to coincide with a cold shift in the PDO.

The question is, where do we go from here? Certainly temperatures and weather will rebound back to the warm side, but after a series of strong winters there is no need to doubt that the winters of 09, 10, and 11 are a sign of things to come.

It brings to light the greater question, is the climate beginning to cool after the past 30 years? Too early to tell, but this year is off to a great start and this decade will tell the tale.

All that and ya failed . LOL . What happens if the atlantic conveyer fails? Instant cold . What caused the failure . Warmer fresh water entering the system . Whats causeing storms Hot cold air masses mixing it up . Don't through your shorts out . Has anyone noticed the amount of cloud cover all the time . Its all the results of a warming climate. Yes winters will be worse than normal. For every action there is an equal and oppsite reaction .

 

[CADsortaGUY]

i love how the op pretends he came up with this stuff on his own

nevermind the fact that its not accurate


as for cad.....simpleton...this whole mindset of 'how arrogant of man to think he can influence the climate on earth'....

this isn't 1450 anymore

there are 6 BILLION people on the planet

how many times do we have to debunk the 'sun' is the reason for everything?

the only valid point the op makes is that for someone to say these tornadoes are 100% due to 'global warming' - there is no good way to prove either side of that

ok, so if you are a believer - how exactly can we get the earth to normal? What is "normal"? How are you going to show results that actions are taking us towards said "normal"?

 

[Paul98]

What caused previous changes since 10K years ago couldn't be answered.

I don't know I haven't studied it. Do you know? Even if we haven't found evidence on what caused the change 10k years( we might I just haven't looked for it ) ago doesn't mean we don't have evidence on other climate change events.

The evidence is there for what is causing climate change currently. There is also evidence for what caused many of the climate changes in the past. Now I am sure you can find some that we don't know what caused the change. That doesn't change that there was a reason for the climate changes in the past, just as there is one now.

Since you avoided my question earlier and posted your own I am guessing you don't know what is causing the current climate change?

 

[Paul98]

ok, so if you are a believer - how exactly can we get the earth to normal? What is "normal"? How are you going to show results that actions are taking us towards said "normal"?

What is this "normal" you are talking about? What humans want is less climate change so it's close to what it is at now, as this is what we are used and have built around. And when the climate does change we want it to be very slowly so we can deal with it without huge problems. If the climate changes massively in 50 or 100 years we might have big problems dealing with it.

 

[ericlp]

hmm, how to get it to normal? Pray, obviously.

I'll keep my faith in science thank you very much. Clearly, man is having an impact on the climate. Yep, let's burn up more oil and keep pumping out kids to suck down these resources faster.

Nothing to see here move along freaks.

It's all SNAFU as usual.

 

[boomerang]

Beware of the prophet seeking profits.

 

[First]

There are still tards that deny MMGW is real? Holy shit.

 

[Jaskalas]

All that and ya failed . LOL . What happens if the atlantic conveyer fails? Instant cold.

From the American Geophysical Union: Study suggests no slowing of Atlantic ‘conveyor belt’ current. Rendering your explanation for it moot.

Whats causeing storms Hot cold air masses mixing it up.

2010, 'warmest year ever' - few tornadoes.
2011, temperatures back to average - many violent tornadoes.

Check out the greatest year for tornadoes on that chart, 1974. A cold year at the height of the global cooling scare. The suggestion of warmth for the cause has no scientific backing.

Don't through your shorts out . Has anyone noticed the amount of cloud cover all the time .

Based on one person's personal observation for a local area? :hmm: You might want to provide some data there.

Its all the results of a warming climate. Yes winters will be worse than normal. For every action there is an equal and oppsite reaction .

Snowfalls are now just a thing of the past

Less Snow, Less Water: Climate Disruption in the West

global warming means milder winters and less snowfall

snow will become less frequent in the British Isles; we are expecting milder winters.

I'm just glad the internet was alive and kicking before winters turned colder and scientists had to suddenly reverse their decades old consensus on milder winters to match the weather outside.

Yes, that theory of hotter summer / colder winter could have some good merit behind it, except for all the previous research during our milder winters.