2011 Kawasaki ZX10R

[Jeff7181]

I just got my August issues of Cycle World and Motor Cyclist and they have articles about the 2011 ZX10R. Apparently Kawasaki is doing some radical stuff with the engine... going with a "big bang" firing order that fires a pair of cylinders followed by the other pair 180 degrees later. Then there's 540 degrees of nothing before the first two fire again. I know this has been done before, but Kawasaki is claiming to use this big bang firing order AND keep the engine useful at low RPM by using an electric motor below 3000 RPM to help the engine turn over during that 540 degrees where no cylinder is firing. Above 3000 RPM the motor turns into a generator to recharge the battery. Makes one wonder if there might be some aftermarket bolt on devices that give the rider a button to press to turn this motor on at will for a few more ponies.

Sounds like a lot of unnecessary complexity. Additional electronics to have problems with, additional mechanical parts to have problems with, additional weight.

Aside from that, there's some suspicion that they may be using a perfectly horizontal inline 4, with the engine block on top of the gear box and a pneumatic valve train.

Crazy stuff... sounds more like things you find exclusively on race bikes, not actual production models.

 

[Fenixgoon]

kawasaki's ZX line, honda's CBR, and yamaha's YFZ R1/R6s are all basically street legal racebikes.

 

[Jeff7181]

kawasaki's ZX line, honda's CBR, and yamaha's YFZ R1/R6s are all basically street legal racebikes.

I realize that, but there's typically things you see ONLY on track bikes. Pneumatic valve trains for example... or radical engine placement. In a race application it will likely allow even greater lean angles but in a street application that's insignificant since there's few roads where you can even utilize a lean angle that great.

 

[RedRooster]

But a lot of that tech is necessary for bike legality is some race series, like most of the AMA ones and WSBK.
So if they want to stay competitive in those series, they need to kill 3000 average Joe's on the street who don't know what the hell they're doing with them. Cost of doing business.

 

[mwmorph]

But a lot of that tech is necessary for bike legality is some race series, like most of the AMA ones and WSBK.
So if they want to stay competitive in those series, they need to kill 3000 average Joe's on the street who don't know what the hell they're doing with them. Cost of doing business.

Super hardcore/dangerous bikes also tend to gain their own mystique, it might actually be a benefit from a business perspective to draw in the crazies and boost sales. Why buy a Gixxer if the ZX is more exciting than an a piggy back ride on an axe murderer?

 

[Bignate603]

So they're moving to an extreme oddfire setup? That pretty interesting.

 

[Greenman]

It's cool stuff, but most of them are going to be ridden by kids that don't have anywhere near the skill or common sense required to be on a bike like that. The end result is predictable, and very sad.

 

[OS]

I just got my August issues of Cycle World and Motor Cyclist and they have articles about the 2011 ZX10R. Apparently Kawasaki is doing some radical stuff with the engine... going with a "big bang" firing order that fires a pair of cylinders followed by the other pair 180 degrees later. Then there's 540 degrees of nothing before the first two fire again. I know this has been done before, but Kawasaki is claiming to use this big bang firing order AND keep the engine useful at low RPM by using an electric motor below 3000 RPM to help the engine turn over during that 540 degrees where no cylinder is firing. Above 3000 RPM the motor turns into a generator to recharge the battery. Makes one wonder if there might be some aftermarket bolt on devices that give the rider a button to press to turn this motor on at will for a few more ponies.

Sounds like a lot of unnecessary complexity. Additional electronics to have problems with, additional mechanical parts to have problems with, additional weight.

Aside from that, there's some suspicion that they may be using a perfectly horizontal inline 4, with the engine block on top of the gear box and a pneumatic valve train.

Crazy stuff... sounds more like things you find exclusively on race bikes, not actual production models.

I am not familiar with bikes, but it almost sounds like they are using some sort of integrated starter/alternator..which on a car would actually be smart and reduce number of physical parts.
Yes the control system would be more complex, but that is just electronics.

 

[EightySix Four]

IIRC, "big bang" motors aren't necessarily meant to make more power they are generally used to create a more linear power curve. A more linear curve (should) give you the ability/confidence to get on the throttle quicker on the way out of corners without worrying about the motor overpowering traction.

Still, at the end of the day it'll be another bike for killing squids.

 

[Jeff7181]

Not exactly, crazy. The theory behind the big bang firing order is to give the rear wheel some time to "recover" so you can get on it harder coming out of a turn. You get a big burst of power for 180 degrees of crank rotation, then 540 degrees of time for the rear tire to regain traction before another burst of power. So it's not exactly linear, but predictable. Apparently it has a pretty distinct exhaust note, too.

This is similar to what Yamaha did with the R1, but Yamaha is also using a cross plane crankshaft. As far as I know, Kawasaki will use the traditional crank used in inline 4's with two pistons moving at the same time, but two of them will fire together, then 180 degrees later the other two will fire and then you have 540 degrees of nothing.

 

[MiataNC]

As insane as the performance is with modern sportbikes, they are getting "safer".

Traction Control
Alternative fuel maps at the push of a button to reduce power delivery
ABS
Tires capable of greater than 45* of lean angle.

While none of these things will save the truly stupid or unskilled, they do help mitigate the ridiculous power to weight ratios. Which in turn can save even the most experienced street rider from the occasional mistake that everyone makes.

 

[Throckmorton]

A hybrid bike has to be awesome. But what is the benefit of "big bang"? It would be less smooth, be harder on components, and noisier... what could possibly be the benefit?

 

[Throckmorton]

Not exactly, crazy. The theory behind the big bang firing order is to give the rear wheel some time to "recover" so you can get on it harder coming out of a turn. You get a big burst of power for 180 degrees of crank rotation, then 540 degrees of time for the rear tire to regain traction before another burst of power. So it's not exactly linear, but predictable. Apparently it has a pretty distinct exhaust note, too.

This is similar to what Yamaha did with the R1, but Yamaha is also using a cross plane crankshaft. As far as I know, Kawasaki will use the traditional crank used in inline 4's with two pistons moving at the same time, but two of them will fire together, then 180 degrees later the other two will fire and then you have 540 degrees of nothing.

That sounds ridiculous. You give the tire bigger pulses of power and then no power?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

A hybrid bike has to be awesome. But what is the benefit of "big bang"? It would be less smooth, be harder on components, and noisier... what could possibly be the benefit?

A good comparison is how a big twin feels mid corner compared to a 4 cyl superbike.. The 'pulses' of a well spaced firing order makes it easier to modulate throttle etc while leaned over.


I don't know the physics behind it, but I've read that it has to do with a 'burst' (as piston fires) breaking traction and then the delay while the tire hooks back up, then another 'burst'.. VS an inline 4 where it's a constant stream of power.

 

[joesmoke]

semi related - on their dirt bikes this year (the 250f i believe) kawi is doing non-identical forks tubes. not sure of the specifics, but its supposed to make tuning easier as you would only need to mess with one side to do a revalve/replace the oil.

 

[Jeff7181]

That sounds ridiculous. You give the tire bigger pulses of power and then no power?

It does, doesn't it? If it wasn't race proven I wouldn't believe it myself.

 

[Fenixgoon]

As insane as the performance is with modern sportbikes, they are getting "safer".

Traction Control
Alternative fuel maps at the push of a button to reduce power delivery
ABS
Tires capable of greater than 45* of lean angle.

While none of these things will save the truly stupid or unskilled, they do help mitigate the ridiculous power to weight ratios. Which in turn can save even the most experienced street rider from the occasional mistake that everyone makes.

don't forget a slipper clutch.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

semi related - on their dirt bikes this year (the 250f i believe) kawi is doing non-identical forks tubes. not sure of the specifics, but its supposed to make tuning easier as you would only need to mess with one side to do a revalve/replace the oil.

The current ZX-6R (IIRC) has the same, one fork controls compression and preload, the other controls rebound or something like that...

Will see if I can find out tomorrow...

 

[PlasmaBomb]

That sounds ridiculous. You give the tire bigger pulses of power and then no power?

It does, doesn't it? If it wasn't race proven I wouldn't believe it myself.

As far as I know the current thinking is that the benefit is similar to that of the cross plane crank on the current R1, in that it reduces the inertial torque experienced by the back wheel, giving the rider better feel and grip.

 

[EightySix Four]

It does, doesn't it? If it wasn't race proven I wouldn't believe it myself.

Stratospheric revs make it hard to notice the "bang" followed by nothing I'm sure. At high RPM's it'll probably be unnoticeable, just smooth.

 

[Greenman]

I seem to recall Triumph doing this back in the seventy's. It was a twin cylinder 650 and both cylinders fired at the same time, I don't remember the model or name, we called them a "thumper".