2009 Hyundai Genesis....

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: senseamp
We heard same thing about Azera. How is that selling?

The Azera was mid-pack power and spec wise, front wheel drive, and looked pretty average. Even though the Genesis's design is not very original, I think it's a good looking car. And it's offering 375HP, RWD, and Fit/Finish on par with MB and BMW for HALF of the price if you compare it to a 7 series (which actually has less power). The Azera wasn't an attempt to go after the big guns in the industry...this is.

The problem for Genesis is that the image conscious buyer won't be seen in a Hyundai, and the average value luxo boat shopper doesn't care about RWD.

How many people are going to be able to tell that the Genesis is a Hyundai unless they carefully go up close and read the badge? It's just like with the Porsche 911...how many people are going to be able to tell apart a Carrera from a Carrera S from a GT3? Not many, especially if you're talking about the average shopper.

The car looks good...nothing like the mental image one has when they think of "Hyundai." And the car doesn't even carry a Hyundai badge on the front...

 

[theeedude]

People know 911 is a Porsche, and they will know that this is a Hyundai. Companies spend hundreds of millions in marketing dollars and decades building brand awareness for a reason. Generic will always sell for a deep discount to brand name.

 

[mb]

I am thoroughly impressed with Hyundai. Who would have thought they could make something like this? If this car was out when I was in the market for a new one, I would have heavily considered it.

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: senseamp
People know 911 is a Porsche, and they will know that this is a Hyundai. Companies spend hundreds of millions in marketing dollars and decades building brand awareness for a reason. Generic will always sell for a deep discount to brand name.

Well, I guess we won't know until the sales numbers come out. Based on the majority of people who seem to like this car (such as the guy who posted above me) in this thread and others on the forum, though, I would say it has a good chance.

 

[dawheat]

Originally posted by: senseamp
We heard same thing about Azera. How is that selling?

Hyundai sold 22K Azeras in the US in 2007 at the end of its life cycle. Acura sold ~6600 RL and 58K TLs in 2007.

The point is year after year, the quality of vehicles from Hyundai has increased. It's no longer the laughingstock of the 90s and has become a mainstream choice for many buyers - 145K Sonatas were sold in the US last year.

True Hyundai still has a long way to go to become a top tier manufacturer, but the difference in perception from just 5 years ago is substantial and only continues to increase as they churn out quality cars year after year.

Could this be the first gen Lexus LS for Hyundai? Probably not. Will they probably see very healthy sales growth over the Azera? Almost definitely.

When the following generation comes out in 4-5 years will we be having the same discussion? We'll see.

 

[dawheat]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: senseamp
We heard same thing about Azera. How is that selling?

The Azera was mid-pack power and spec wise, front wheel drive, and looked pretty average. Even though the Genesis's design is not very original, I think it's a good looking car. And it's offering 375HP, RWD, and Fit/Finish on par with MB and BMW for HALF of the price if you compare it to a 7 series (which actually has less power). The Azera wasn't an attempt to go after the big guns in the industry...this is.

The problem for Genesis is that the image conscious buyer won't be seen in a Hyundai, and the average value luxo boat shopper doesn't care about RWD.

Is there such thing as a 30-35K "image conscious" buyer? People who are at such a price point are IMO wannabes - getting into stripped out base BMWs or MB just to say they drive one of those cars.

I do think there are plenty of other consumers who want the best car for the value and in growing numbers have been giving Hyundai their business. I think its reasonable to guess that as more people own Hyundais such as a Sonata, receive a good experience, and are looking for an upgrade 3-4 years later, may very well consider the Genesis, assuming the car is what the early reviews portray.

I don't own a Hyundai so I don't want to make it seem like I'm a cheerleader, but I do respect what they've accomplished in the last 8 years and always look foward to more competition resulting in better and cheaper cars for everyone.

 

[theeedude]

For 30-35K, I'd rather be driving a G35.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: senseamp
For 30-35K, I'd rather be driving a G35.

Yep. I cannot see spending that much for a Hyundai at this time either.

 

[dawheat]

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: senseamp
For 30-35K, I'd rather be driving a G35.

Yep. I cannot see spending that much for a Hyundai at this time either.

Well the great thing is there are some buyers like you, some buyers like me, and some buyers different than both of us. Considering the G35 sedan sells at about the rate of the Toyota Avalon and considerably behind the ES350, there clearly is a market for more luxury focused, comfortable vehicles.

You're free to spend your money as you please, but the point isn't that the Genesis is going to be the best thing since sliced bread (it isn't), nor is the point that you (probably a male between his teens and early 30s) should go buy it. The point is that it appears to be a very competent car, well priced for its range, and should most likely sell quite well.

The family looking at the Avalon, the person looking to step up from a Sonata, the older couple thinking about buying a Lucerne, all may very well give the Genesis a call.

For 30-35K? I'd get a stipped out BMW 135i 6MT and swap in a set of coilovers, rear sway, and non runflat tires. The G35 IMO is a fricking boat and a foot too long for my needs.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: caspur
Everyone remember what happen to the VW Phaeton? This is the Hyundai version.

And what happens when a smaller car company tries to create a luxury division (Mazda Amati anyone?) They ended up with a Mazda Millenia. Good sports sedan, but sold as a Mazda, faded into oblivion.

the phaeton was priced well beyond what it should have - a base phaeton was $66k, as i recall.. basically the same as an Audi A8. of course no one would buy it.

Right, the difference between the Phaeton and the Genesis was that the VAG already had a luxo brand in that price point and the two competed with each other...plus Volkswagon was riding a wave of popularity on the low end that they hoped would catapult them into the stratosphere and break into the high end...the Phaeton was an amazing car, but the price was a killer as well as the brand/badge was premature...

Hyundai on the other hand is comming out with something that is spendy for their namesake, but still offers alot for thousands less than their competition....

had VW taken a similar approach with the Phaeton it might have seen some real success.

Personally I can sympathize with those who call for hyundai to create a dedicated luxury brand, while everyone knows an Acura is essentially Honda the reality is that it sounds better to many when they say they have an Acura..least that is my percpetion in having spoken to people out and about.

But I give them credit for releasing this under their namesake with their badge...that is a bold move and I really hope they are successful with it, personally I love the car but would rather an Acura as I am not into the big luxo segment.

And for those that feel the only difference is the name in many of these brands, speaking for acura I know there are alot of options that one cannot get when buying top of the line Honda (which we did) vs. Acura, specifically I believe Acura uses something like a six stage paint process or something whereas Honda paint is good, just not as good..just one minor example.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: dawheat

Hyundai sold 22K Azeras in the US in 2007 at the end of its life cycle. Acura sold ~6600 RL and 58K TLs in 2007.

The point is year after year, the quality of vehicles from H
[yundai has increased. It's no longer the laughingstock of the 90s and has become a mainstream choice for many buyers - 145K Sonatas were sold in the US last year.

True Hyundai still has a long way to go to become a top tier manufacturer, but the difference in perception from just 5 years ago is substantial and only continues to increase as they churn out quality cars year after year.

Could this be the first gen Lexus LS for Hyundai? Probably not. Will they probably see very healthy sales growth over the Azera? Almost definitely.

When the following generation comes out in 4-5 years will we be having the same discussion? We'll see.

I agree, I see alot of Hyundai cars out and about in my daily commute...and all this positive press for the Genesis only furthers their cause IMHO.

If I was in the market for such a car I would certainly consider one...

Even guys in my workplace speak highly of it, though most are honest and say the name brand turns them off and they would rather spend more on something like a BMW because name brand means alot to them.

 

[cheesehead]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Toyota Avalon.

Mmmm....no.

Toyota Avalon has a rather limp-wristed V6 and front wheel drive.

The Genesis has a beefy V8 and rear wheel drive.

It's not quite a BMW, but it's close - and much cheaper.

They're also promising to do a performance version with greater displacement, direct injection, forced induction, or some combination of the three.

And from what I've heard from mechanics, Hyundais are built quite well. While I hate the styling and I really, really, really hate the interiors, my experience of modern Hyundai products supports this - they're yucky and cheap, but they work.

Originally posted by: PricklyPete
People who are brand conscious are going to go German or Japanese
People who have unlimited budgets will likely still go German as they really are still the best if you don't care about money.
People who want something that is cheap and geared only toward performance will buy a G8
People who are worried about fuel costs will get something smaller with a smaller engine (TSX, etc.)

I would have to agree with almost all of those - the G8 is a big, cushy, and somewhat cheap-feeling thing. That said, I've seen quite a few of these lately - and considering the bland styling, I probbably missed quite a few more.

There is, though, a major competitor for the Genesis: The BMW 335. The engine, when dyno'd, is shown to produce 320HP; it has the option of a real manual gearbox or funky paddleshift, and it only costs slightly more. I'd personally take the BMW....but I suppose I'm not the target audience.

Originally posted by: Ktulu


Yeah, sounds like they completely forgot about the Cadillac CTS which starts at 33,990.

CTS>>>>>>>>>>Genesis.

You need to spend a bit more for the V8, though. That said, the CTS is bigger.

Originally posted by: 996GT2
Fit/Finish on par with MB and BMW for HALF of the price if you compare it to a 7 series (which actually has less power).

I beg to differ.

Mercedes Benzes break down quite a lot, and the interiors are wonky.

Horrible and nasty as the interior on your $12,000 Kia might be, it will still be there in five years.

 

[lurk3r]

The only way I'd look at this car is if the V8 was under $30, $45k they're dreaming. I'd much rather have a V6 Altima or Accord, or even a G8. Its the same boreing shape as all the other junk on the market.

And yes, I did mean to compare the Huyndai V8 with the Japanese V6. They are an unproven manufacturer and need to provide ALOT more car at the same money until they have established themselves. So far they have been very successful at building cheap cars that last 5 years, and pretty much ignoring any warranty claims.

 

[Chunkee]

Originally posted by: lurk3r
The only way I'd look at this car is if the V8 was under $30, $45k they're dreaming. I'd much rather have a V6 Altima or Accord, or even a G8. Its the same boreing shape as all the other junk on the market.

And yes, I did mean to compare the Huyndai V8 with the Japanese V6. They are an unproven manufacturer and need to provide ALOT more car at the same money until they have established themselves. So far they have been very successful at building cheap cars that last 5 years, and pretty much ignoring any warranty claims.

U sir might want to do something else. Unproven...poor choice.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Cheesehead

Originally posted by: senseamp
Toyota Avalon.

Mmmm....no.

Toyota Avalon has a rather limp-wristed V6 and front wheel drive.

The Genesis has a beefy V8 and rear wheel drive.

It's not quite a BMW, but it's close - and much cheaper.

They're also promising to do a performance version with greater displacement, direct injection, forced induction, or some combination of the three.

And from what I've heard from mechanics, Hyundais are built quite well. While I hate the styling and I really, really, really hate the interiors, my experience of modern Hyundai products supports this - they're yucky and cheap, but they work.

Originally posted by: PricklyPete
People who are brand conscious are going to go German or Japanese
People who have unlimited budgets will likely still go German as they really are still the best if you don't care about money.
People who want something that is cheap and geared only toward performance will buy a G8
People who are worried about fuel costs will get something smaller with a smaller engine (TSX, etc.)

I would have to agree with almost all of those - the G8 is a big, cushy, and somewhat cheap-feeling thing. That said, I've seen quite a few of these lately - and considering the bland styling, I probbably missed quite a few more.

There is, though, a major competitor for the Genesis: The BMW 335. The engine, when dyno'd, is shown to produce 320HP; it has the option of a real manual gearbox or funky paddleshift, and it only costs slightly more. I'd personally take the BMW....but I suppose I'm not the target audience.

Originally posted by: Ktulu


Yeah, sounds like they completely forgot about the Cadillac CTS which starts at 33,990.

CTS>>>>>>>>>>Genesis.

You need to spend a bit more for the V8, though. That said, the CTS is bigger.

Originally posted by: 996GT2
Fit/Finish on par with MB and BMW for HALF of the price if you compare it to a 7 series (which actually has less power).

I beg to differ.

Mercedes Benzes break down quite a lot, and the interiors are wonky.

Horrible and nasty as the interior on your $12,000 Kia might be, it will still be there in five years.

Argh.

The CTS is not bigger. The CTS is slightly larger than a 3-series BMW, slightly smaller than the 5-series. The Genesis is poised as a large 5-series competitor, with rear seating and trunk space closer to the 7-series.

The 335 is very nice, but base for the sedan (coupe is MORE expensive, a la G35) is $39k MSRP, $36k Invoice, and GOOD LUCK getting one out the door for less than $42k or so, pretty much stripped. A well-optioned 335i tips out at over $50k easily. BMW charges out the &%$ for options. I love their cars, but they are the king of nickel-and-diming you. Don't believe me? Go option out a 335i, with a few things that you might want, and be shocked at the price. Most dealerships, even here in D/FW, rarely have any stripped models in stock, usually their inventory is dominated by medium-to-loaded-with-options models.

The G8 is a good deal, but sort of a different market.

 

[ayabe]

I'm waiting for the Genesis Coupe, I think it just went on sale in Korea and will be another year or so before it's here.

Think you only get the V6 though, :brokenheart:

 

[Tremulant]

Originally posted by: ayabe
I'm waiting for the Genesis Coupe, I think it just went on sale in Korea and will be another year or so before it's here.

Think you only get the V6 though, :brokenheart:

Yeah.. but there's an option for a turbo 4 cyl.

I'd like to see how it performs (both 4 and 6).. but I'm also hoping that Nissan brings out a 240sx/silvia successor.