2008 VP Debate Thread

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
Palin v Biden: two men en... wait, damnit :frown:

two people enter, one man leave doesn't have the same ring to it.

at this point, I don't think it matters what Palin does -- expectations are so low that anything short of an outright crash and burn will be hailed as a victory and any bad points will be blamed on the "omg liberal moderator."

9PM ET, I'm skipping my WoW raid to watch :p


Thread has become to large and cumbersome.

Anandtech Senior Moderator
Red Dawn
 

Grunt03

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2000
3,131
0
0
part of me wants to watch the debate but then I really do not know if I can handle it.

Biden - will be on guard, best behavior, he isn't going to be able to dice and slice Palin without back lash from everyone. I think he will attack her but will not even come close to makeing her look the fool as should be done.

Palin - who knows what she will say or do, the thoughts and ideas are not hers, they are McSames. I could only hope that Biden makes her break down and start crying ....

 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
482
126
Probably a good indication of what we will see tomorrow:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1001/p09s01-coop.html

What it's like to debate Sarah Palin - I know firsthand: She's a master of the nonanswer.

By Andrew Halcro
from the October 1, 2008 edition

Anchorage, Alaska - When he faces off against Sarah Palin Thursday night, Joe Biden will have his hands full.

I should know. I've debated Governor Palin more than two dozen times. And she's a master, not of facts, figures, or insightful policy recommendations, but at the fine art of the nonanswer, the glittering generality. Against such charms there is little Senator Biden, or anyone, can do.

On paper, of course, the debate appears to be a mismatch.

In 2000, Palin was the mayor of an Alaskan town of 5,500 people, while Biden was serving his 28th year as a United States senator. Her major public policy concern was building a local ice rink and sports center. His major public policy concern was the State Department's decision to grant an export license to allow sales of heavy-lift helicopters to Turkey, during tense UN-sponsored Cyprus peace talks.

On paper, the difference in experience on both domestic and foreign policy is like the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing a bullet. Unfortunately for Biden, if recent history is an indicator, experience or a grasp of the issues won't matter when it comes to debating Palin.

On April 17, 2006, Palin and I participated in a debate at the University of Alaska in Fairbanks on agriculture issues. The next day, the Fairbanks Daily News Miner published this excerpt:

"Andrew Halcro, a declared independent candidate from Anchorage, came armed with statistics on agricultural productivity. Sarah Palin, a Republican from Wasilla, said the Matanuska Valley provides a positive example for other communities interested in agriculture to study."

On April 18, 2006, Palin and I sat together in a hotel coffee shop comparing campaign trail notes. As we talked about the debates, Palin made a comment that highlights the phenomenon that Biden is up against.

"Andrew, I watch you at these debates with no notes, no papers, and yet when asked questions, you spout off facts, figures, and policies, and I'm amazed. But then I look out into the audience and I ask myself, 'Does any of this really matter?' " Palin said.

While policy wonks such as Biden might cringe, it seemed to me that Palin was simply vocalizing her strength without realizing it. During the campaign, Palin's knowledge on public policy issues never matured ? because it didn't have to. Her ability to fill the debate halls with her presence and her gift of the glittering generality made it possible for her to rely on populism instead of policy.

Palin is a master of the nonanswer. She can turn a 60-second response to a query about her specific solutions to healthcare challenges into a folksy story about how she's met people on the campaign trail who face healthcare challenges. All without uttering a word about her public-policy solutions to healthcare challenges.

In one debate, a moderator asked the candidates to name a bill the legislature had recently passed that we didn't like. I named one. Democratic candidate Tony Knowles named one. But Sarah Palin instead used her allotted time to criticize the incumbent governor, Frank Murkowski. Asked to name a bill we did like, the same pattern emerged: Palin didn't name a bill.

And when she does answer the actual question asked, she has a canny ability to connect with the audience on a personal level. For example, asked to name a major issue that had been ignored during the campaign, I discussed the health of local communities, Mr. Knowles talked about affordable healthcare, and Palin talked about ... the need to protect hunting and fishing rights.

So what does that mean for Biden? With shorter question-and-answer times and limited interaction between the two, he should simply ignore Palin in a respectful manner on the stage and answer the questions as though he were alone. Any attempt to flex his public-policy knowledge and show Palin is not ready for prime time will inevitably cast him in the role of the bully.

On the other side of the stage, if Palin is to be successful, she needs to do what she does best: fill the room with her presence and stick to the scripted sound bites.

? Andrew Halcro served two terms as a Republican member of the Alaska State House of Representatives. He ran for governor as an Independent in 2006, debating Sarah Palin more than two dozen times. He blogs at www.andrewhalcro.com .
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
I hope that the moderator forces Palin to answer the actual questions rather than the made-up question that runs through her head.

McCain actually performed better than I thought he would. I'm hesitant to expect a hilariously entertaining debate.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
I think what Biden should do is two key things:

1. Look great - the comparison will speak for itself.

2. Prepare responses for the inevitable attacks. I've little doubt that the Palin team's strategy will be 'best defense is a good offense'.

They'll go after Biden's vote against the first gulf war, and probably his plan to split Iraq into three nations.

The other thing he should try to do is to make it clear she can't answer questions she isn't prepped for, by saying things demanding a response she will unable to make.

 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
BTW, did people see the video of McCain losing his cool on 09/30 during a Q&A with the Des Moines Register editorial board?

He just outright dismissed all the conservatives who have issues with Palin instead of reassuring them. It sounds like he's completely lost his shit.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
BTW, did people see the video of McCain losing his cool on 09/30 during a Q&A with the Des Moines Register editorial board?

He just outright dismissed all the conservatives who have issues with Palin instead of reassuring them. It sounds like he's completely lost his shit.
Not really but he did get snippy when asked if he's had taxpayer funded health Ins his whole life:laugh:
 

JJChicken

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2007
6,165
16
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Barack Obama
Should be interesting to watch.

I have to work tonight so my wife will record it for me.

Can't you just watch it online? I would've thought that CNN or other broadcasters or youtube who have a copy. Perhaps you want higher quality of it.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
BTW, did people see the video of McCain losing his cool on 09/30 during a Q&A with the Des Moines Register editorial board?

He just outright dismissed all the conservatives who have issues with Palin instead of reassuring them. It sounds like he's completely lost his shit.

Stay calm. You're just looking for things that aren't there now.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
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Only a strong showing will stop this slide.

Skepticism of Palin Growing, Poll Finds

By Jon Cohen and Jennifer Agiesta
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, October 2, 2008; A01

With the vice presidential candidates set to square off today in their only scheduled debate, public assessments of Sarah Palin's readiness have plummeted, and she may now be a drag on the Republican ticket among key voter groups, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

Tonight's heavily anticipated debate comes just five weeks after the popular Alaska governor entered the national spotlight as Sen. John McCain's surprise pick to be his running mate. Though she initially transformed the race with her energizing presence and a fiery convention speech, Palin is now a much less positive force: Six in 10 voters see her as lacking the experience to be an effective president, and a third are now less likely to vote for McCain because of her.

A month ago, voters rated Palin as highly as they did McCain or his Democratic rival, Sen. Barack Obama, but after weeks of intensive coverage and several perceived missteps, the shine has diminished.

Nearly a third of adults in a new poll from the Pew Research Center said they paid a lot of attention to Palin's interviews with CBS News's Katie Couric, a series that prompted grumbling among some conservative commentators about Palin's competency to be the GOP's vice presidential standard-bearer. The Pew poll showed views of Palin slipping over the past few days alone.

In the new Post-ABC poll, Palin matches the Democratic vice presidential candidate, Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr., on empathy, one of McCain's clear deficits against Obama, while fewer than half of voters think she understands "complex issues."

But it is the experience question that may prove her highest hurdle, particularly when paired with widespread public concern about McCain's age. About half of all voters said they were uncomfortable with the idea of McCain taking office at age 72, and 85 percent of those voters said Palin does not have the requisite experience to be president.

The 60 percent who now see Palin as insufficiently experienced to step into the presidency is steeply higher than in a Post-ABC poll after her nomination early last month. Democrats and Republicans alike are now more apt to doubt her qualifications, but the biggest shift has come among independents.

In early September, independents offered a divided verdict on Palin's experience; now they take the negative view by about 2 to 1. Nearly two-thirds of both independent men and women in the new poll said Palin has insufficient experience to run the White House.

Obama was able for the first time to crack the 50 percent mark, albeit barely, on whether he has the experience to be president following Friday's presidential debate, and the question is one of Palin's central challenges as she prepares to face Biden in prime time before a national television audience.

More than two-thirds of voters in the Pew poll said they plan to watch the debate, far more than said they were going to turn on the vice presidential debate four years ago. The expectations are that Biden, a six-term senator, will win: Voters by a 19-point margin think he will prove to be the better debater.

In the new Post-ABC poll, majorities of conservatives and Republicans maintain that Palin has the necessary experience to step in as president, though those numbers are also down somewhat from early last month.

But a third of independent voters now indicate they are less likely to support McCain because of Palin, compared with 20 percent who said so in an ABC poll a month ago. Palin now repels more independents than she attracts to McCain. The share of independent women less apt to support McCain because of the Palin pick has more than doubled to 34 percent, while the percentage more inclined to support him is down eight points.

White Catholics, another important group of swing voters, also are now more likely to say that Palin dampens their support for McCain.

Still, nearly half of both white Catholics and independents said she does not affect their votes. Even more, about six in 10, said Obama's pick of Biden did not change their chances of voting Democratic.

The history of vice presidential picks suggests they are rarely consequential, and in a July Post-ABC poll, the nominees' choice for No. 2 was last on a list of 17 items voters said might sway their decisions.

The reaction to Palin, however, has been uncharacteristically strong.

Nearly three in 10 independent women have intensely unfavorable opinions of her, more than twice the proportion holding such views of Biden. And a majority of Democratic women now have "strongly unfavorable" views of Palin, up sharply from just after she accepted the nomination.

Among all voters, 29 percent have "strongly favorable" views, and an exactly offsetting number hold intensely negative ones. Attitudes toward Biden are more subdued.

Overall, 51 percent of voters view Palin favorably; for Biden, that number is a bit higher at 57 percent.

The vice presidential hopefuls run about evenly among all voters and among independents on the question of whether they "understand the problems of people like you." That is an important factor for the GOP ticket, as McCain continues to trail Obama as the candidate more in tune with the financial problems Americans face.

White married women are particularly likely to see Palin as in touch, as three-quarters said she understands their concerns. At the same time, a majority of such women do not think Palin has enough experience to be a good president. (White married women support the GOP ticket by a 20-point margin.)

Palin runs far behind Biden on another important attribute: About three-quarters of those surveyed said he understands complex issues, compared with 46 percent who said so of her.

On the eve of the presidential election in 2000, 76 percent said Al Gore had a solid grasp of hard issues; 60 percent said so of George W. Bush.

Despite Palin's slip in public assessments, the boost she has provided among some core segments of the GOP base has not faded. Enthusiasm for McCain's candidacy among Republicans, conservatives and white evangelical Protestants climbed sharply after the party's convention in St. Paul, Minn., where Palin made her debut, and it has held relatively steady since.

But even within these Republican strongholds, questions about Palin's experience are fairly common. About four in 10 conservatives and white evangelical Protestants, three in 10 Republicans and a quarter of GOP women said she does not have the necessary experience.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,837
2,621
136
More importantly, what are the rules for the drinking game during tonight's debate?


I can't think of any good triggers for Biden. For Palin there are too many.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: Thump553
More importantly, what are the rules for the drinking game during tonight's debate?


I can't think of any good triggers for Biden.

- goes over the time allotted
- says john mccain is a good friend of his and he respects him but...
- utters a wildly anachronistic anecdote
- tells Palin to get out of his secret Christmas place
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
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Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: Thump553
More importantly, what are the rules for the drinking game during tonight's debate?


I can't think of any good triggers for Biden.

- tells Palin to get out of his secret Christmas place

If he does this, I'm donating as much money as the law allows to the Obama campaign.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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Originally posted by: Thump553
More importantly, what are the rules for the drinking game during tonight's debate?


I can't think of any good triggers for Biden. For Palin there are too many.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does it really matter? Plenty of alcoholic beverages and you win when you vomit.

Extra points for laughing while vomiting.
 

Hugh H

Senior member
Jul 11, 2008
315
0
0
Expectations for Palin are lower than for Dan Quayle... probably the lowest expectations in American VP history. As long as she doesn't cry on stage, she will be seen as "solid", as "beating expectations", and not too intelligent people will see her as proof that "average six-pack Joe" is what the greatest country on earth needs in the second highest position *shaking my head*
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
at this point, I don't think it matters what Palin does -- expectations are so low that anything short of an outright crash and burn will be hailed as a victory and any bad points will be blamed on the "omg liberal moderator."

That will be a lot of it. Even personally I expect her to do so badly that now I'm thinking that as long as she doesn't weep on the spot to me she'll seem to have done better than I thought.

She may be a decent debater and she won't get pushed around tooo much, but she will be clinging madly to whatever her handlers forced down her throat in the past week. I will be surprised if she doesn't come off as incompetent. Surface level she may seem ok, but I think she'll stay far away from specifics, for the most part.

Fox & Friends tomorrow will praise her, of course, and gush and fawn.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Originally posted by: BassBomb
is sarah palin a joke?

Man you guys are setting the bar so low, that as long as she doesnt fill her panties with a large watery crap on stage, and begin to fling it at people......
 

Hugh H

Senior member
Jul 11, 2008
315
0
0
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: BassBomb
is sarah palin a joke?

Man you guys are setting the bar so low, that as long as she doesnt fill her panties with a large watery crap on stage, and begin to fling it at people......

Exactly what I'm saying. As long as she doesn't cry tonight, she wins.