2008 VP Debate Thread Part 2

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: winnar111
You tell me. What agenda could this hockey mom possibly have?

Even if she had the same power, which she won't (Cheney's authority was derived from Bush's executive orders), she wouldn't do anything with it.

Then why even fill such a potentially important office with someone so unqualified? It would be more appropriate to leave the office vacant - although with some of this caliber, it would appear to be vacant anyways.

Insurance policy against domestic assassination. And its not an important office no matter how you slice it.

:laugh:

It's 99% unimportant except in the extremely rare case where it's 100% important.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Oh and the other thing which scared me a lot is that Palin said the following:

I'm thankful the Constitution would allow a bit more authority given to the vice president if that vice president so chose to exert it in working with the Senate and making sure that we are supportive of the president's policies and making sure too that our president understands what our strengths are.

I don't like this. It makes me uncomfortable in regards to how our system of checks and balances are supposed to work. It makes me believe that she is striving for more power in the Senate. Our country heavily depends on our system of checks and balances for survival and I really do not want anything to damage that which includes allowing the VP to have too much power and influence over the Senate. There is a proper balance to maintain and Palin just doesn't strike me as the type who believes in the kind of balance which I think is best for this country especially which makes statements like that combined with her history of how she prefers to use her power.

The Constitution concerning the duties of the Vice President:

The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.

In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

There is nothing to define or limit the Vice President's powers as President of the Senate, aside from the clause concerning voting. It is up to the Senate to define the powers and duties of its various officers.

I don't need the Constitution recited to me. We all know what it says.

The bottom line in this argument is not so much what it says, but how it is interpreted, used, and enforced by those in power. There are cases where one can technically follow what the Constitution says but abuse it in such a way that is harmful to our country. It is not supposed to happen but it can and has in our past. In this case, that potential abuse and harm revolves around preserving checks and balances. That is my concern and my distrust for her when it comes to this matter is most certainly having a great impact on my voting decision. Let us hope that such a thing never becomes a reality no matter who becomes Pres or VP in any election.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: winnar111
You tell me. What agenda could this hockey mom possibly have?

Even if she had the same power, which she won't (Cheney's authority was derived from Bush's executive orders), she wouldn't do anything with it.

Then why even fill such a potentially important office with someone so unqualified? It would be more appropriate to leave the office vacant - although with some of this caliber, it would appear to be vacant anyways.

Insurance policy against domestic assassination. And its not an important office no matter how you slice it.

:laugh:

It's 99% unimportant except in the extremely rare case where it's 100% important.

Woodrow Wilson managed to 'run' the country for a year and a half after having a stroke while he was paralyzed and essentially on his deathbed. I'm sure Palin can manage in that 1%.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: winnar111
...
Woodrow Wilson managed to 'run' the country for a year and a half after having a stroke while he was paralyzed and essentially on his deathbed. I'm sure Palin can manage in that 1%.

Maybe. But would you pick her over any other? As an example, it seems that half of the people posting here are much more qualified.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Sarah Palin debate flow chart.

That is classic! :laugh:

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: winnar111
...
Woodrow Wilson managed to 'run' the country for a year and a half after having a stroke while he was paralyzed and essentially on his deathbed. I'm sure Palin can manage in that 1%.

Maybe. But would you pick her over any other? As an example, it seems that half of the people posting here are much more qualified.

I considered myself qualified. I have lots of foreign policy experience. I can see Canada when I go to the park and when I drive to work. Then when I'm at work I work with Canadians who drive to the USA to work. One of my good friends was born in Russia and only recently moved here in the last 2 years. Another friend of mine is from Iran, another from Pakistan. So see I know how to deal with foreign countries. Eat your heart out Sarah Palin.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: winnar111
...
Woodrow Wilson managed to 'run' the country for a year and a half after having a stroke while he was paralyzed and essentially on his deathbed. I'm sure Palin can manage in that 1%.

Maybe. But would you pick her over any other? As an example, it seems that half of the people posting here are much more qualified.

I considered myself qualified. I have lots of foreign policy experience. I can see Canada when I go to the park and when I drive to work. Then when I'm at work I work with Canadians who drive to the USA to work. One of my good friends was born in Russia and only recently moved here in the last 2 years. Another friend of mine is from Iran, another from Pakistan. So see I know how to deal with foreign countries. Eat your heart out Sarah Palin.

McCain/DeathBUA 08.

:laugh:

 

[dwell]

I'm finding it humorous that I hear more about Palin from my dem/liberal friend than about Obama, which proves this election boils down to ABB/M (anything but Bush/McCain).

But seriously, I've heard nothing about Obama since Palin was nominated.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Chris
But seriously, I've heard nothing about Obama since Palin was nominated.

There was plenty of talk after his recent debate with McCain.

What do you want to know about him that you are not already familiar with?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Chris
I'm finding it humorous that I hear more about Palin from my dem/liberal friend than about Obama, which proves this election boils down to ABB/M (anything but Bush/McCain).

But seriously, I've heard nothing about Obama since Palin was nominated.

Well gosh darn it and golly gee, she's just been at it for 5 weeks and she's so adorable that we just can't get enough of her, bless her heart.:roll:

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: winnar111
You tell me. What agenda could this hockey mom possibly have?

Even if she had the same power, which she won't (Cheney's authority was derived from Bush's executive orders), she wouldn't do anything with it.

Then why even fill such a potentially important office with someone so unqualified? It would be more appropriate to leave the office vacant - although with some of this caliber, it would appear to be vacant anyways.

Insurance policy against domestic assassination. And its not an important office no matter how you slice it.

:laugh:

It's 99% unimportant except in the extremely rare case where it's 100% important.

Woodrow Wilson managed to 'run' the country for a year and a half after having a stroke while he was paralyzed and essentially on his deathbed. I'm sure Palin can manage in that 1%.

That's good to know because, if McSame wins, he will be pretty much starting out that way.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
What do you want to know about him that you are not already familiar with?

He is good at giving speeches, he's black, he's not Bush, and... ???

Point is, all I hear from everyone is McCain/Palin bashing (Palin more so). If Obama is so great, why aren't they talking about how great he is vs how bad the Rep ticket it? Obama is just ABB, just like Kerry.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Chris
I'm finding it humorous that I hear more about Palin from my dem/liberal friend than about Obama, which proves this election boils down to ABB/M (anything but Bush/McCain).

But seriously, I've heard nothing about Obama since Palin was nominated.

I heard that he's a muslim terrorist.

But serioulsly, it appears that obama and/or his advisors are more politically savvy than I ever gave them credit for.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: Xavier434
What do you want to know about him that you are not already familiar with?

He is good at giving speeches, he's black, he's not Bush, and... ???

and you haven't been paying attention for a year and a half.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: jonks
and you haven't been paying attention for a year and a half.

Please enlighten me because outside of his 2004 NDC speech and his debates with Hilarity and McCain there's not much to judge him by. He's a great public speaker, but the same can be said of the debate team captain at East Bumblefuck High School.

 

[seemingly random]

Let's use a little republican, barely sentient logic. Bush is an atrocious speaker and ran the country atrociously. Obama is an excellent speaker and will ...

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: jonks
and you haven't been paying attention for a year and a half.

Please enlighten me because outside of his 2004 NDC speech and his debates with Hilarity and McCain there's not much to judge him by. He's a great public speaker, but the same can be said of the debate team captain at East Bumblefuck High School.

What you are asking for is a tremendous amount of information which cannot be delivered properly over an internet forum. If you truly do wish to understand what Obama is all about so that both your curiosity can be satisfied and you can make a solid informative decision about your vote then I recommend beginning with taking time to fully read his site and watch his speeches over YouTube. From there, I recommend moving on to reading about his voting history. That should be followed by watching videos and reading material involving criticism about Obama as well as McCain while trying to ignore the red herrings and rumors as much as possible because the bottom line is that you need to consider that there will always be his side, her side, and the truth.

In terms of unbiased criticism about McCain specifically, I recommend checking out this PDF here. It is a 20 page read and the title may throw some off but trust me when I tell you that it contains lots of excellent info from 83 solid sources without the red herring crap you find all over the media.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Zedtom
Sarah Palin must understand that smiling when talking about war and nuclear weapons makes viewers uneasy. It promotes the idea that you can clean up any mess with a quick spray of 409 and wipe with a paper towel.

I made the same comment to my wife. The whole "grinning ear to ear" for 90 minutes while you talk gets old fast. I felt it was a mix of condescension and ignorance. Like I've said before, I had high hopes for Palin, but I identified this debate as a make it or break it moment for her, and she certainly didn't make it. Now, it could have easy been downright catastrophic, but barring a spare moment here and there, I was not impressed with her.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I have to say Biden is a classic. He is the politician you wan to hate but he is so off the cuff and imperfect you cant.

At the end of the day this election cycle will have done one thing for me no matter who gets elected. My preconceptions about Biden were wrong. I have a new respect for him even if our opinions on govt are different.

Ditto. In fact, I walked away wondering how the hell the Democrats chose Obama over Biden. If Biden was at the top of the ticket, I could very easily be persuaded to vote against McCain/Palin.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Genx87
I have to say Biden is a classic. He is the politician you wan to hate but he is so off the cuff and imperfect you cant.

At the end of the day this election cycle will have done one thing for me no matter who gets elected. My preconceptions about Biden were wrong. I have a new respect for him even if our opinions on govt are different.

Ditto. In fact, I walked away wondering how the hell the Democrats chose Obama over Biden. If Biden was at the top of the ticket, I could very easily be persuaded to vote against McCain/Palin.

I have thought about that too actually. The bottom line is that they will be working together though so it is still very favorable imo.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: jonks
and you haven't been paying attention for a year and a half.

Please enlighten me because outside of his 2004 NDC speech and his debates with Hilarity and McCain there's not much to judge him by. He's a great public speaker, but the same can be said of the debate team captain at East Bumblefuck High School.

As I said, you haven't been paying attention. Just his DNC speech? Just the debates? What about his dozens and dozens of interviews (including real questions and answers, with follow-ups!!!) on Meet the Press, Face the Nation, the News Hour, MSNBC and CNN programs, countless magazine interviews, the View, Ellen, the infinite coverage of his stump speeches and town halls, his website, his speech on race relations, his two autobiographies? Christ, pick up a freaking newspaper or something, it's your job to educate yourself if you have any interest whatsoever. The material is out there and not difficult to find.

Not much to judge him by? If you live in a hut without a tv, radio, internet, smoke signals, carrier pigeons, or news publications, then maybe.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Genx87
I have to say Biden is a classic. He is the politician you wan to hate but he is so off the cuff and imperfect you cant.

At the end of the day this election cycle will have done one thing for me no matter who gets elected. My preconceptions about Biden were wrong. I have a new respect for him even if our opinions on govt are different.

Ditto. In fact, I walked away wondering how the hell the Democrats chose Obama over Biden. If Biden was at the top of the ticket, I could very easily be persuaded to vote against McCain/Palin.

I have thought about that too actually. The bottom line is that they will be working together though so it is still very favorable imo.

^^ Exactly - they will be working together. Biden has the experience to back up Obama, and Obama has the charisma, patience and intelligence to deal with other foreign leaders as well as re-unite the nation that has become so bitterly divided. Plus under Obama I will be paying a lot less in taxes.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: Xavier434
What do you want to know about him that you are not already familiar with?

He is good at giving speeches, he's black, he's not Bush, and... ???

Point is, all I hear from everyone is McCain/Palin bashing (Palin more so). If Obama is so great, why aren't they talking about how great he is vs how bad the Rep ticket it? Obama is just ABB, just like Kerry.

Did you even listen to the VP debate? Biden couldn't stop talking about Obama

 

[Deeko]

I can just hear it in two years when Palin is President...."doggone it Putin, we will be mad as heck if you point those nookular bombs at us! I can see you doing it from my doorstep, you betcha I can!"

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
Biden was knowledgeable, and he was pretty restrained ? didn?t really say one stupid thing. He did his fair share of saying what he wanted to say without really answering the question. But Palin did that all night. At one point she said something like, ?I'm not going to answer the question the way you or the way the moderator want me to ?.? I was thinking, then why the hell are you here?

I personally don't think Golly-Gee-Wizz talk belongs in a vice presidential debate. It makes it feel like I cannot trust what she is saying. It takes away from the substance of what she says. I'm not looking for her to connect with soccer moms, I'm looking for leadership and a firm grasp of the issues this country needs to concentrate on. Golly Gee Wizz Beaver, did you do your chores? - has little place in the politics of high office.

Her incessant, almost overly excessive reading of her crib notes gave her little room for her golly gee wizz comments.

To paraphrase a columnist in today's paper (and this matches my observation), her answer to ANY question contained one (or some combination of) the following statements:

1. McCain is a maverick.
2. The surge worked.
3. Drill.
4. Taxes are bad.
5. This election is about ordinary people.

This is a short, easy to remember list. Pretty much any 6th grader could master it after several weeks of indoctrination by experienced political handlers.