2008 VP Debate Thread Part 2

[chess9]

Peggy Noonen has a good column out about the divisiveness of McCain's language, including the 'Georgetown cocktail set' vs. 'Joe Six-pack'. The poster above who complained about the elites should read it.

Yes, America has some snotty little shits who think they know how to run our lives, elites if you will, but I agree with Noonen that you don't forge a political coalition by dividing people, and that has been the Republican brand's trademark since Reagan. Although I wasn't a fan of Reagan's policies, he was a uniter more than a divider.

Palin's ultimate failing in this debate was her inability to persuasively sell McCain as a real agent of EFFECTIVE change.

Oh, and when she talked about Israel making peace with Egypt and Jordan I thought "I wonder if she really knows anything about the history of Israel? Naw, ain't possible." Gotcha questions just floated around my brain like loose Republican talking points at a VEEP debate.

Oh, and it's McKiernan, not McClellan, who is the general in charge in Afghanistan. LOL. Maybe she has read some Civil War History? Just 140+ years behind...which is about right for a Republican.

-Robert

 

[JJChicken]

Originally posted by: OokiiNeko
If Obama wins, he better wear two bullet proof vests.

Because when the moderator asked how the VP candidates would differ from their Pres candidate counterparts, Biden gave me the feeling he already knows he is going to be President at some point during Obama`s first term.

If Obama wins and then gets taken out, that is going to be some bad juju for our country.

For the record, I sincerely hopes it does NOT happen.

Feel free to quote this.

Sarah palin kinda dodged that question, despite her likely to become next president. Don't worry she can wink at putin all she wants, dog gonnit!

 

[Red Dawn]

The first thread has gotten to cumbersome so it will be locked and all comments about the VP debate Thursday night shall be made in this thread.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: QED
Slate has posted an interesting riff on the Palin non-answer technique from tonight's debate.

I sensed Biden was playing from that same playbook, to be fair.

I do agree with you but the degree of difference was night and day. When asked a question Biden didn't want to discuss he would briefly answer it without elaborating then move on to another talking point. When Palin was asked a question she didn't want to discuss she simply didn't answer it and began discussing something completely unrelated.

 

[Bitek]

WTF was she talking about in regards to her role in VP with the Senate and promising greater involvement? It was the most disturbing comment said during the debate, while it was caught by Gwen and then Joe, it seems mostly missed by the press. I know the philosophy, and I can't believe she's latched onto it.

Palin seems to have made some very dangerous neocon friends in coming to Washington. I guess Neocons are not dead after all, tho I roll eyes the former Bush supporters who decry neoconism, yet rush to rally around Palin.

 

[yllus]

I think Governor Palin made a critical mistake in not appearing more presidential and not acting in a more serious manner. Folksy charm may carry you through the short term, but who honestly would want someone who speaks like that as the chief executive of their country? Around these parts I'm the first to correct people going overboard in calling her unintelligent - she's a smart woman, though not of the caliber of Senator Clinton or Secretary Rice - but ready to run a country she in my opinion is not.

I actually think that after the initial euphoria of not having imploded on stage, this debate will hurt her, and hurt Senator McCain. More people will realize that a wholly unprepared person is next in line in the White House and that really is unacceptable.

 

[freegeeks]

As a non US citizen, I can just say that it was interesting but it's not really a debate. It's just a bunch of talking points from both sides

The format should be more like the Sarkozy - Segolene debate from last year or the Le Pen - Sarkozy debate from 2003. The difference in style and dynamics is day and night compared with the American format.

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: yllus
I think Governor Palin made a critical mistake in not appearing more presidential and not acting in a more serious manner. Folksy charm may carry you through the short term, but who honestly would want someone who speaks like that as the chief executive of their country? Around these parts I'm the first to correct people going overboard in calling her unintelligent - she's a smart woman, though not of the caliber of Senator Clinton or Secretary Rice - but ready to run a country she in my opinion is not.

I actually think that after the initial euphoria of not having imploded on stage, this debate will hurt her, and hurt Senator McCain. More people will realize that a wholly unprepared person is next in line in the White House and that really is unacceptable.

Her handlers are just trying to capture that GWB magic again.. If they can make the election close then they can win it in court.

 

[SP33Demon]

This lady is so annoying I wouldn't even want her over for dinner. Biden clearly won the debate and Palin clearly stuck to her cue cards, so I was disappointed there wasn't a train wreck. Good thing there's still 4 weeks of soundbites left!

 

[Dari]

Palin failed big time in winning those on the fence. A basic strategy is to not come off as stereotypical, thereby letting you get those uncommitted votes. She played some hokey from the hills and we already knew that about her. Sounding a bit more intelligent would've helped, alot. Her accent wasn't cute but downright annoying. I hope she drops out and they put Romney in there.

 

[DefDC]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
This lady is so annoying I wouldn't even want her over for dinner. Biden clearly won the debate and Palin clearly stuck to her cue cards, so I was disappointed there wasn't a train wreck. Good thing there's still 4 weeks of soundbites left!

I'll be waiting for Real Time tonight. It's gonna have a lot of gold.

 

[KGB]

Palin did okay.

I don't agree with her on any issues or policies but she studied (crammed) hard for the test and she passed.

Does she actually know this stuff? Hell no, she merely memorized it for the test.

Will this really translate into getting more voters to support the McCain/Palin ticket come November? I seriously doubt it.

As an observation, it seems her handlers are too worried about convincing righties that she does indeed have VP substance rather than going after independant voters.
Classic case of preaching to the choir when you really need converts.

 

[thereds]

Originally posted by: freegeeks
As a non US citizen, I can just say that it was interesting but it's not really a debate. It's just a bunch of talking points from both sides

The format should be more like the Sarkozy - Segolene debate from last year or the Le Pen - Sarkozy debate from 2003. The difference in style and dynamics is day and night compared with the American format.

The French Prez debate seems like a Fox News discussion. People talking over each other rather than a moderated debate, which is what a good debate usually is.

 

[Juddog]

Palin was all about the talking points and rehashing what she was told to say. When it came time to drill into specifics, she had none - she simply diverted the question to another talking point. Her use of cutsey phrases like "dog gonnit", combined with her winking, made me want to drown a bag of kittens and punch the TV screen until my knuckles were bloody. This is not how a potential president should act; with John McCain as old as he is, and having already had several bouts of cancer, the likelyhood of her taking over scared me. Imagine her trying to talk to Putin or another world leader like that.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: yllus
I think Governor Palin made a critical mistake in not appearing more presidential and not acting in a more serious manner. Folksy charm may carry you through the short term, but who honestly would want someone who speaks like that as the chief executive of their country?

People that voted for Bush. Twice.

 

[dphantom]

Palin did fine and so did Biden. Neither gaffed and neither hit a home run. Palin gained credibility by holding her own as I expected and Biden did well to avoid the foot in mouth syndrome.

I particulalry liked their after debate talk on stage with their respective families. Both are classy people and I wish those two were running for President and not the empty suit (Obama) and the old guy (McCain).

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Juddog
Palin was all about the talking points and rehashing what she was told to say. When it came time to drill into specifics, she had none - she simply diverted the question to another talking point. Her use of cutsey phrases like "dog gonnit", combined with her winking, made me want to drown a bag of kittens and punch the TV screen until my knuckles were bloody. This is not how a potential president should act; with John McCain as old as he is, and having already had several bouts of cancer, the likelyhood of her taking over scared me. Imagine her trying to talk to Putin or another world leader like that.

If McCain died and she ascended to the Presidency who'd she pick for VP, Dick Cheney?

 

[Lemon law]

According to fact check, both played fast and loose with the truth, but I thought the debate was somewhere between a slight Biden win to a draw. But with current events discrediting McCain, Palin needed to hit a home run, and at best she got a single on a walk. Biden was a making damn sure he did not get Sarah any sympathy backlash while she annoyed me with too many noun verb, I am a hockey Mom and a Maverick like McCain. With the change mantra being a self awarded title that does not quite seem to fit either Palin or McCain.

But the real bright side for Palin is she exceeded expectation by not making a total fool of herself. Which should be renewed license for the McCain campaign to resume using her, which will give Sarah many new opportunities to make a total fool out of herself.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Juddog
Palin was all about the talking points and rehashing what she was told to say. When it came time to drill into specifics, she had none - she simply diverted the question to another talking point. Her use of cutsey phrases like "dog gonnit", combined with her winking, made me want to drown a bag of kittens and punch the TV screen until my knuckles were bloody. This is not how a potential president should act; with John McCain as old as he is, and having already had several bouts of cancer, the likelyhood of her taking over scared me. Imagine her trying to talk to Putin or another world leader like that.

If McCain died and she ascended to the Presidency who'd she pick for VP, Dick Cheney?

I don't think she can pick. I thought it would have to be Pelosi.

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Juddog
Palin was all about the talking points and rehashing what she was told to say. When it came time to drill into specifics, she had none - she simply diverted the question to another talking point. Her use of cutsey phrases like "dog gonnit", combined with her winking, made me want to drown a bag of kittens and punch the TV screen until my knuckles were bloody. This is not how a potential president should act; with John McCain as old as he is, and having already had several bouts of cancer, the likelyhood of her taking over scared me. Imagine her trying to talk to Putin or another world leader like that.

If McCain died and she ascended to the Presidency who'd she pick for VP, Dick Cheney?

I don't think she can pick. I thought it would have to be Pelosi.

No, if a VP becomes President, he/she will choose who the new VP will be. The Speaker becomes President only if both President and VP are dead. There is no automatic move to the VP position in the event that post is vacant.

 

[stlcardinals]

Pelosi could only become President if both the President and Vice-President died at the same time.

If the vice-president becomes president, they nominate a vice-president who then requires a majority vote from both the Senate and the House.

25th amendment.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Juddog
Palin was all about the talking points and rehashing what she was told to say. When it came time to drill into specifics, she had none - she simply diverted the question to another talking point. Her use of cutsey phrases like "dog gonnit", combined with her winking, made me want to drown a bag of kittens and punch the TV screen until my knuckles were bloody. This is not how a potential president should act; with John McCain as old as he is, and having already had several bouts of cancer, the likelyhood of her taking over scared me. Imagine her trying to talk to Putin or another world leader like that.

If McCain died and she ascended to the Presidency who'd she pick for VP, Dick Cheney?

She didn't go to high school with Cheney, so he's not qualified.

-Robert

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: stlcardinals
Pelosi could only become President if both the President and Vice-President died at the same time.
If the vice-president becomes president, they nominate a vice-president who then requires a majority vote from both the Senate and the House.
25th amendment.

You know facts and post them without partisan comment or insulting the poster you answer.


What are you doing in P&N?

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Juddog
Palin was all about the talking points and rehashing what she was told to say. When it came time to drill into specifics, she had none - she simply diverted the question to another talking point. Her use of cutsey phrases like "dog gonnit", combined with her winking, made me want to drown a bag of kittens and punch the TV screen until my knuckles were bloody. This is not how a potential president should act; with John McCain as old as he is, and having already had several bouts of cancer, the likelyhood of her taking over scared me. Imagine her trying to talk to Putin or another world leader like that.

If McCain died and she ascended to the Presidency who'd she pick for VP, Dick Cheney?

Sarah was being cute, flirty and folksy, frankly her manner came across as a bit brazen, pugnacious and completely unpresidential. No doubt she gave SNL and late night comics lots of material and will be caricatured by professional comedians. That may hurt McCains campaign.

Joe Biden came across as ready from day 1, which is more than I can say for Sarah or even McCain.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: dphantom
Palin did fine and so did Biden. Neither gaffed and neither hit a home run. Palin gained credibility by holding her own as I expected and Biden did well to avoid the foot in mouth syndrome.

I particulalry liked their after debate talk on stage with their respective families. Both are classy people and I wish those two were running for President and not the empty suit (Obama) and the old guy (McCain).

This really struck a chord with me, too. As a McCain supporter, Palin's stock went down in my book, but not by much. She was simply too rehearsed. I'm also officially sick of the "Maverick" tag. She couldn't seem to understand the rationale behind Obama's nay vote on troop funding. Biden and Obama clearly don't represent McCain's nay vote as an unwillingness to provide troop funding. I understood Biden's response, and was rather irritated when Palin tried to come back to it a second time in a debate. I feel the same way with regard to Biden's charge about McCain's tax breaks for the oil companies. We're not quite painting the whole picture here, folks.

The civility displayed on stage was immensely refreshing. Of the four people, McCain is my #1, but Biden would be my #2. Obama comes in at a distant #3 and Palin... yeah... not quite ready. I was impressed with Biden's restraint. There were several times when Palin's inexperience at that level was ripe for the picking, but he kept his cool.

Also, I was impressed with Ifill.