2004 Pontiac Grand Prix

[Syringer]

Originally posted by: Howard
HP/L does say a bit about the engineering.

Well would you rather have an 240hp S2k engine which gets 120HP/L, or an LS1 engine producing 310 HP which gets a measely 54 HP/L?

They even get equivalent gas mileage..

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: Syringer

Originally posted by: Yield

Does it matter? All that matters in the end is the power output.
The GTP makes 280HP at 5200 and 280 lb-ft @ 3600 RPM
The 3.5 in the 350Z makes 287HP at 6200 RPM and 274 lb-ft @ 4800 RPM
The 3.8 makes it power at much lower revs

Does it matter? there is nothing saying the powerband of the 350Z isn't good... my car gets good power through the entire powerband (better than equivalent Civics for example) but gets it's max HP at 5,600 RPM. peak power at a certain RPM really doesn't mean much... IMO. the 350Z will definitely outrun the stock GTP, so past that point.. who even cares?

Wow, a sports car can outrun a family car.

Next let's compare minivans and airplanes :disgust:

glad to know you're the only one that classifies a "Grand Prix" with a SUPERCHARGED 3.8L V6 a family car.
anyways, don't rag on me... I didn't really bring up the 350 in the discussion...

 

[KGB1]

Originally posted by: Syringer

Originally posted by: KGB


Good point, also when you reach 60mph on the 3.8, you have to really FLOOR it to make it to 70mph. The engine gives up after that, low RPM engine/transmission are good in long highway trips. City driving could use a high rpm engine so not all the power is wasted going from one red light to another. It kinda makes the car uneconomical.

Having lots of low power is much better in city driving. It allows you to actually make use of power, rather than having to rev it up to the sky to actually feel it. That's one of the main complaints of the S2k.

Red Herring
I've "raced" a guy in a porche with my friends 01 civic. Its hilarious how is low RPM engine roars and zipped away while I slowly pressed the gas pedal only to fall vitim to the next red light. He wasted all the effort his engine put out to stop again? tisk tisk.. I was lmao when I rolled up next to him again and I barely passed 10 mph.

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Yield

Does it matter? All that matters in the end is the power output.
The GTP makes 280HP at 5200 and 280 lb-ft @ 3600 RPM
The 3.5 in the 350Z makes 287HP at 6200 RPM and 274 lb-ft @ 4800 RPM
The 3.8 makes it power at much lower revs

Does it matter? there is nothing saying the powerband of the 350Z isn't good... my car gets good power through the entire powerband (better than equivalent Civics for example) but gets it's max HP at 5,600 RPM. peak power at a certain RPM really doesn't mean much... IMO. the 350Z will definitely outrun the stock GTP, so past that point.. who even cares?

I was just making the point that just b/c the GTP engine is supercharged doesn't mean it's crap

I see.. thankfully I didn't say it's crap.. although I wouldn't really hesitate.

 

[Babbles]

I am a Grand Prix fanboy, but not going to rush out to but this one because of lack of money.

Anyhow, I actually lack and have the GT version, which is just the 3.8L guy. Just messing around on the street I have never lost to a V6 Accord, however that exludes the newer model that has higher HP/Torque.

The transmission in those cars is rock solid, but the problem comes in that the limit on the transmission is 300hp/300torque (or thereabouts) which are a set of numbers easily exceeded by the GTP models so those guys do end up problems with their tranny.

Even Honda and other import fanboys will admit that their auto tranny lacks compared to a GM. Or so I have read over at Honda-Tech.

The 3800 series engine is probably one of the most stable, bulletproof engine out there. Sure the styling is kinda goofy on this newer model but it is much improved.

Also, we have that cool HUD feature that the Nissans, Toyotas, Hondas do not have and that alone is now a buying factor for me.

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: Syringer

Originally posted by: Howard
HP/L does say a bit about the engineering.

Well would you rather have an 240hp S2k engine which gets 120HP/L, or an LS1 engine producing 310 HP which gets a measely 54 HP/L?

They even get equivalent gas mileage..

In a car that weighs in as much as a Camaro I'd rather have the TORQUE of the LS1... now stop with the HP/L nonsense now before someone gets hurt

 

[psteng19]

Originally posted by: Syringer

Originally posted by: Yield

Does it matter? All that matters in the end is the power output.
The GTP makes 280HP at 5200 and 280 lb-ft @ 3600 RPM
The 3.5 in the 350Z makes 287HP at 6200 RPM and 274 lb-ft @ 4800 RPM
The 3.8 makes it power at much lower revs

Does it matter? there is nothing saying the powerband of the 350Z isn't good... my car gets good power through the entire powerband (better than equivalent Civics for example) but gets it's max HP at 5,600 RPM. peak power at a certain RPM really doesn't mean much... IMO. the 350Z will definitely outrun the stock GTP, so past that point.. who even cares?

Wow, a sports car can outrun a family car.

Next let's compare minivans and airplanes :disgust:

If you want, compare the GTP to a primary competitor, the Maxima.
A few have raced, and while the GTP has the edge at launch, the Maxima has better top end and will eventually overtake it.
Forget about it from a roll... the GTP is left in dust.

The 3.8 to 3.5 comparison is really nothing... just expecting a little more from a supercharged 3.8 liter.
Never said anything about HP/liter...

 

[KGB1]

we have that cool HUD feature that the Nissans

my uncle has that on his cadillac deville.. hehe try reading it when driving in the morning with the sun directly hitting the windshield.. LOL...

dude I like the 3.8 also, but I'd rather be much happier with an 3.5 or lower import engine.. plus I have a CHOICE of manual with those vehicles. GM really gives you 1 option.

3.8L + 6 speed manual = Pure BLISS

 

[Syringer]

Originally posted by: KGB

Originally posted by: Syringer

Originally posted by: KGB


Good point, also when you reach 60mph on the 3.8, you have to really FLOOR it to make it to 70mph. The engine gives up after that, low RPM engine/transmission are good in long highway trips. City driving could use a high rpm engine so not all the power is wasted going from one red light to another. It kinda makes the car uneconomical.

Having lots of low power is much better in city driving. It allows you to actually make use of power, rather than having to rev it up to the sky to actually feel it. That's one of the main complaints of the S2k.

Red Herring
I've "raced" a guy in a porche with my friends 01 civic. Its hilarious how is low RPM engine roars and zipped away while I slowly pressed the gas pedal only to fall vitim to the next red light. He wasted all the effort his engine put out to stop again? tisk tisk.. I was lmao when I rolled up next to him again and I barely passed 10 mph.

No, what annoys me are people who buy sports cars only to never rev it past 2000 rpm's, and never actully make use of more than 1/3 of their car's power.

Talk about a waste..

 

[Syringer]

Originally posted by: psteng19

Originally posted by: Syringer

Originally posted by: Yield

Does it matter? All that matters in the end is the power output.
The GTP makes 280HP at 5200 and 280 lb-ft @ 3600 RPM
The 3.5 in the 350Z makes 287HP at 6200 RPM and 274 lb-ft @ 4800 RPM
The 3.8 makes it power at much lower revs

Does it matter? there is nothing saying the powerband of the 350Z isn't good... my car gets good power through the entire powerband (better than equivalent Civics for example) but gets it's max HP at 5,600 RPM. peak power at a certain RPM really doesn't mean much... IMO. the 350Z will definitely outrun the stock GTP, so past that point.. who even cares?

Wow, a sports car can outrun a family car.

Next let's compare minivans and airplanes :disgust:

If you want, compare the GTP to a primary competitor, the Maxima.
A few have raced, and while the GTP has the edge at launch, the Maxima has better top end and will eventually overtake it.
Forget about it from a roll... the GTP is left in dust.

The 3.8 to 3.5 comparison is really nothing... just expecting a little more from a supercharged 3.8 liter.
Never said anything about HP/liter...

No doubt that's the case, but some people prefer the glued to your seat feeling that a torquey car provides.

 

[EvilYoda]

The only reason I would ever remotely choose to try this car out is because my parents get the GM discount. ick.

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: psteng19

Originally posted by: Syringer

Originally posted by: Yield

Does it matter? All that matters in the end is the power output.
The GTP makes 280HP at 5200 and 280 lb-ft @ 3600 RPM
The 3.5 in the 350Z makes 287HP at 6200 RPM and 274 lb-ft @ 4800 RPM
The 3.8 makes it power at much lower revs

Does it matter? there is nothing saying the powerband of the 350Z isn't good... my car gets good power through the entire powerband (better than equivalent Civics for example) but gets it's max HP at 5,600 RPM. peak power at a certain RPM really doesn't mean much... IMO. the 350Z will definitely outrun the stock GTP, so past that point.. who even cares?

Wow, a sports car can outrun a family car.

Next let's compare minivans and airplanes :disgust:

If you want, compare the GTP to a primary competitor, the Maxima.
A few have raced, and while the GTP has the edge at launch, the Maxima has better top end and will eventually overtake it.
Forget about it from a roll... the GTP is left in dust.

The 3.8 to 3.5 comparison is really nothing... just expecting a little more from a supercharged 3.8 liter.
Never said anything about HP/liter...

7lbs of boost is pretty conservative dude, Do you think GM would want to put any more risk in having to warranty parts? no they keep it as safe as possible... 7lbs is nothing for 8.5:1 compression, I'm running a twin screw @ 8lbs of boost on a 9.5:1 compression motor. Change out a pulley for $60 and you will have the numbers that you are expecting... it's not very hard to do, I can change out my pully in under 5 minutes on the roadside even it's so simple.

 

[FrustratedUser]

It has got the nice Supercharged 3800 Series III V6 @ 280 hp.


Interior is ugly, I agree on that.

 

[Rent]

Originally posted by: psteng19

Originally posted by: Syringer

Originally posted by: Yield

Does it matter? All that matters in the end is the power output.
The GTP makes 280HP at 5200 and 280 lb-ft @ 3600 RPM
The 3.5 in the 350Z makes 287HP at 6200 RPM and 274 lb-ft @ 4800 RPM
The 3.8 makes it power at much lower revs

Does it matter? there is nothing saying the powerband of the 350Z isn't good... my car gets good power through the entire powerband (better than equivalent Civics for example) but gets it's max HP at 5,600 RPM. peak power at a certain RPM really doesn't mean much... IMO. the 350Z will definitely outrun the stock GTP, so past that point.. who even cares?

Wow, a sports car can outrun a family car.

Next let's compare minivans and airplanes :disgust:

If you want, compare the GTP to a primary competitor, the Maxima.
A few have raced, and while the GTP has the edge at launch, the Maxima has better top end and will eventually overtake it.
Forget about it from a roll... the GTP is left in dust.

The 3.8 to 3.5 comparison is really nothing... just expecting a little more from a supercharged 3.8 liter.
Never said anything about HP/liter...

Someone say Maxima vs. 350z vs. GTP?

I was riding in the 350z... and it simply got outrun. All cars were putting out similar HP numbers except the GTP had a bit more torque Both the Max and GTP were running on semi bald front tires, the 350 had a new set of Yokos on it.

 

[BatmanNate]

I like it.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Syringer

Originally posted by: psteng19

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: psteng19

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Rent

Originally posted by: NFS4
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5833&sid=180&n=157

LOL at the big rectangular box for the radio/climate controls. Whatever happened to interior elegant styling and integration?

Speaking of options, the Comp G Package adds $1,395 to the GTP?s $26,495 sticker.

Hmmm, I think of a lot better cars for that money

You can usually trim a lot off the dealer prices for those things

The interior is getting better... slowly...

Still one of the best drivetrains to date.

Can't argue with the 3.8...but the rest of the car just doesn't really compete with today's offerings.

I'd gladly take a Mazda 6 or Accord V6 over this.

I'm sorry, but Nissan's VQ will dominate the 3800 (peak and all over the torque curve).
200hp/225 ft.lbs from an NA 3.8 liter engine?
I'll take the fugly new Maxima over the GTP.

The supercharged GTP makes 280HP and 280 lb-ft of torque. Can't argue with that and WHO CARES HOW IT MAKES IT HORSEPOWER?? The 3.8 is bulletproof.

I think you mean 260/280 (again, from a supercharged 3.8 liter).
The VQ in the Z makes 287/274 from a 3.5 liter.
The VQ has less displacement, is naturally aspirated, while at the same time outputs more hp and almost same torque (possibly more, Nissan underrated the torque numbers)... talk about bulletproof!
And you might care how the power is produced because you haven't even slapped on a super/turbo the VQ for more potential.
I don't know much about the 3800 but I think we have a clear winner hear.

HP/liter is THE most meaningless measurement of a car. And to compare a sports car tuned engine to a family sedan tuned engine is ridiculous.

That being said, a GTP would be near the top of my list on cars to get, but I would give the edge to an Altima..but the GTP is bigger, which to me is important in a sedan, and you get plenty more torque to play with.

I wonder what the modding potential of this car is. With the old Grand Prix's, slapping in a smaller $70 s/c pulley got you about 25-30 hp, and an intake adds about 5 more as well.

HP/L does say a bit about the engineering.

efficiancy and reliability say a zillion times more.

I can make a 125cc 2 stroke produce in the THOUSANDS of HP/Liter... at the end of a 1 day racing event the Ring and Piston are wasted.

Edit: I am full of typo's tonight.... yes more then usual

You can get 250+ hp from a 125cc engine? Sign me up.

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

You can get 250+ hp from a 125cc engine? Sign me up.

My calc was off, it's 350HP/L so HUNDREDS but I don't practice measureing it cause it's a pointless calculation for benchracers only. a 125cc motor with 3000HP/Liter would not have the energy to power a 4 passanger car is the point... you understand why correct?

 

[FrustratedUser]

My 15cc running a mix of Nitro and Methanol produces around 6hp.

That is 400hp/liter

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
My 15cc running a mix of Nitro and Methanol produces around 6hp.

That is 400hp/liter

HA HA!!.. this is like artwork for putting the HP/Liter arguement to shame

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
My 15cc running a mix of Nitro and Methanol produces around 6hp.

That is 400hp/liter

HA HA!!.. this is like artwork for putting the HP/Liter arguement to shame

LOL! Here is one more.

A top of the line 3.5cc engine produces around 3 hp @ 38000rpm ---> 850hp/liter, beat that

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
My 15cc running a mix of Nitro and Methanol produces around 6hp.

That is 400hp/liter

HA HA!!.. this is like artwork for putting the HP/Liter arguement to shame

LOL! Here is one more.

A top of the line 3.5cc engine produces around 3 hp @ 38000rpm ---> 850hp/liter, beat that

Oh, I want one of those in my next car. Also, I certainly don't want any radio I buy to come in a rectangular box.

 

[ElFenix]

actually HP/L says more about the final compression ratio of two similar engines than anything else

this engine makes 722.54 BHP/L

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
actually HP/L says more about the final compression ratio of two similar engines than anything else

this engine makes 722.54 BHP/L

Partly true but it most likely shows which engine revs higher. BHP = torque * rpm * ???? constant.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: ElFenix
actually HP/L says more about the final compression ratio of two similar engines than anything else

this engine makes 722.54 BHP/L

Partly true but it most likely shows which engine revs higher. BHP = torque * rpm * ???? constant.

bhp figures are slightly higher than SAE net figures, but not much. like 3%

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
actually HP/L says more about the final compression ratio of two similar engines than anything else

this engine makes 722.54 BHP/L

Stick 112 of these babies under the hood on the GTP fro 280 hp.
ROTF!

112 carbs to adjust and 112 tuned exhaust systems sticking out of the hood ----> badass!