2004 Honda Element

[BigSmooth]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: BigSmooth

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: BigSmooth
It's underpowered, and the styling is polarizing, but they are certainly very practical vehicles. My coworker loves hers.

Define underpowered. Many people seem to uset hat to describe economy cars and I'm beginning to think most people have a distorted definition of what it means.

The reason I would describe it as "underpowered" is because it is a spacious vehicle meant to carry passengers/cargo, and although I don't know for sure, I would imagine that it would huff and puff up a mountain when fully loaded down. I drove one (with just the saleman and I in it) and I found it to be slow. Not dangerously slow or anything, but slower than I like my vehicles to be. This was a FWD auto. I don't imagine the AWD or manual versions are any quicker.

For the daily commute and most around-town applications, the power is adequate, but for a vehicle I would often use to go camping etc., I thought it was wanting for power.

When you get right down to it, though, it really is not designed to carry many people or heavy loads. I can't find a GVWR figure on the Element, but towing capacity is only 1500 lbs and there is only seating for four people. Despite the "rugged outdoorsy" theme of their marketing materials, it is really just a rehashed station-wagon Civic. It's not meant to be fast, it's not meant to make you think twice about buying a Land Rover Defender or Hemi Ram, it's not meant to haul lots of people or cargo.

I don't see what's wrong with not being able to go up a steep grade in 5th gear.

I guess I view underpowered as "Scary merging in traffic." It shouldn't have a problem doing that, even with 4 people in it.

I didn't mean for it to sound like it's Kia-Rio-slow, or even that I don't like it. I was using "underpowered" in relative terms, I guess. You're right in that most people would not use it to tow anything or even carry much gear. But if I were buying an Element I know I would use it for fishing, camping, and other outdoorsy trips, and I like being able to pass an RV on a two-lane road even with two buddies, my dog, and all our gear in the car. That's really the only area where the Element falls short IMO.

 

Originally posted by: BigSmooth

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Stick with your drive it 'til it's dead policy.

Splurge on the $5 ice cream instead of the house brand, don't fvck up your financial future over a car.

Viper GTS

$20k isn't really risking your financial future. Unless you make minimum wage and have 4 children.

I would just buy it and skip the leasing BS.

Why do people always call entry level economy cars "underpowered". Do you expect every car to have 300hp?
These cars are very adequately powered for their size and price. Go find me a 16K-21K economy car that pushes 200+ hp out of the box. You won't find one unless it's turbocharged. Even then your choices are limited.

Never said anything about price. If they offered a V6, I would of course expect the price to go up. It's definitely a good value all things considered.
I just think in a vehicle meant to carry lots of stuff, there should be a more powerful engine. If this were a car, sure, the engine would be fine. It even does OK in the CR-V. But you can jam a ton of stuff into the Element so I think there should be either a torquier, more powerful standard 4-cylinder or an optional V6 to move all that stuff around a little easier. That's what many vehicles in this segment do.

As for "finding" a car for you, you can easily get a 200-hp V6 Escape, one of the Element's most direct competitors, in my area for less than $21K. I'm not saying I would take an Escape over an Element, just saying that other carmakers do offer more power.

There really is a limit to how big and powerful you can make a 4cyl engine.

The element isn't made to haul like 3 tons of bricks or anything.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: BigSmooth
I didn't mean for it to sound like it's Kia-Rio-slow, or even that I don't like it. I was using "underpowered" in relative terms, I guess. You're right in that most people would not use it to tow anything or even carry much gear. But if I were buying an Element I know I would use it for fishing, camping, and other outdoorsy trips, and I like being able to pass an RV on a two-lane road even with two buddies, my dog, and all our gear in the car. That's really the only area where the Element falls short IMO.

I see what you're saying.

I don't think you would be able to fit 2 people, a dog, and camping gear in it, though. There is only about 26 cubic ft behind the back seats. By way of comparison, the Escape has 29 and the Kia Sorrento has 31.

It is worth mentioning that with the back seat stowed, the Element has 77 cubic feet of cargo space - the Sorrento and the Escape only have 66. But you will have to let the dog ride shotgun and leave your buddies home to carry all that gear.

What I'm getting at is that the Element isn't a people mover. It's not the kind of car you use to take your buddies on a weekend camping trip.

You will DEFINITELY find it underpowered for these applications.

In many ways I think of it as a more useful replacement for shortbed I4 pickups.

 

[BigSmooth]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: BigSmooth
I didn't mean for it to sound like it's Kia-Rio-slow, or even that I don't like it. I was using "underpowered" in relative terms, I guess. You're right in that most people would not use it to tow anything or even carry much gear. But if I were buying an Element I know I would use it for fishing, camping, and other outdoorsy trips, and I like being able to pass an RV on a two-lane road even with two buddies, my dog, and all our gear in the car. That's really the only area where the Element falls short IMO.

I see what you're saying.

I don't think you would be able to fit 2 people, a dog, and camping gear in it, though. There is only about 26 cubic ft behind the back seats. By way of comparison, the Escape has 29 and the Kia Sorrento has 31.

It is worth mentioning that with the back seat stowed, the Element has 77 cubic feet of cargo space - the Sorrento and the Escape only have 66. But you will have to let the dog ride shotgun and leave your buddies home to carry all that gear.

What I'm getting at is that the Element isn't a people mover. It's not the kind of car you use to take your buddies on a weekend camping trip.

You will DEFINITELY find it underpowered for these applications.

In many ways I think of it as a more useful replacement for shortbed I4 pickups.

True. It's all about how you use it. That's why I wouldn't buy one myself - because there are better options out there for what I described - but I would certainly recommend it to many folks. It has a number of unique features that I really liked, and in many ways it's a nice compromise between a typical small ute and a typical wagon.

Edit: and you're right, I think I was overestimating the cargo volume. I think the massive headroom and the overall "open" feel of the interior make it seem larger inside than it truly is (which is a good thing).

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: DougK62
If you're "killing" newish cars in only 3 years then please go somewhere to learn how to properly operate a vehicle.

Element is a good utility vehicle.

I bought the 98 Neon with 74,000 miles on it. Almost 3 years, it now has 117,000. It's dying because cylinder 2 is misfiring, most likey due to warn out rings. Exactly how is that my fault? Maybe I should have invested in the Millenium edition, that alters friction physics and finds wormholes in the spametime continuum? 😛

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: DougK62
If you're "killing" newish cars in only 3 years then please go somewhere to learn how to properly operate a vehicle.

Element is a good utility vehicle.

I bought the 98 Neon with 74,000 miles on it. Almost 3 years, it now has 117,000. It's dying because cylinder 2 is misfiring, most likey due to warn out rings. Exactly how is that my fault? Maybe I should have invested in the Millenium edition, that alters friction physics and finds wormholes in the spametime continuum? 😛

Worn out rings are not your problem. Typically, the rings wear evenly.

It is entirely possible that cyl#2 has become damaged and compression is too low to fire, but my bet goes to something ignition related. Changed your plugs/wires lately?

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: DougK62
If you're "killing" newish cars in only 3 years then please go somewhere to learn how to properly operate a vehicle.

Element is a good utility vehicle.

I bought the 98 Neon with 74,000 miles on it. Almost 3 years, it now has 117,000. It's dying because cylinder 2 is misfiring, most likey due to warn out rings. Exactly how is that my fault? Maybe I should have invested in the Millenium edition, that alters friction physics and finds wormholes in the spametime continuum? 😛

Worn out rings are not your problem. Typically, the rings wear evenly.

It is entirely possible that cyl#2 has become damaged and compression is too low to fire, but my bet goes to something ignition related. Changed your plugs/wires lately?

I changed my oil. Pennzoil Synthentic Blend High Mileage. I think the sludge that was in there was keeping it sealed and now the oil is too good/new to do it.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: DougK62
If you're "killing" newish cars in only 3 years then please go somewhere to learn how to properly operate a vehicle.

Element is a good utility vehicle.

I bought the 98 Neon with 74,000 miles on it. Almost 3 years, it now has 117,000. It's dying because cylinder 2 is misfiring, most likey due to warn out rings. Exactly how is that my fault? Maybe I should have invested in the Millenium edition, that alters friction physics and finds wormholes in the spametime continuum? 😛

Worn out rings are not your problem. Typically, the rings wear evenly.

It is entirely possible that cyl#2 has become damaged and compression is too low to fire, but my bet goes to something ignition related. Changed your plugs/wires lately?

I changed my oil. Pennzoil Synthentic Blend High Mileage. I think the sludge that was in there was keeping it sealed and now the oil is too good/new to do it.

Nah. Doesen't work like that. New oil will seal (rings) better than old oil, by far. Oil consumption always goes up when the oil has become worn out, even if your engine is in tiptop shape and it's too small to notice.

Again, unless something happened to cyl#2, like no oil flow or something, it should have the same ammount of wear as all the other cylinders. Very rarely will worn out rings cause missfires, and if it does.. your engine will double as a mosquito fogger, and it will miss on all cylinders.

Could also be injector related.

You just need a tuneup.

It doesen't sound like you really take very good care of your cars.. 😛

Don't make me come beat you with a bent connecting rod. Keep up with your maintenance!

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: DougK62
If you're "killing" newish cars in only 3 years then please go somewhere to learn how to properly operate a vehicle.

Element is a good utility vehicle.

I bought the 98 Neon with 74,000 miles on it. Almost 3 years, it now has 117,000. It's dying because cylinder 2 is misfiring, most likey due to warn out rings. Exactly how is that my fault? Maybe I should have invested in the Millenium edition, that alters friction physics and finds wormholes in the spametime continuum? 😛

Worn out rings are not your problem. Typically, the rings wear evenly.

It is entirely possible that cyl#2 has become damaged and compression is too low to fire, but my bet goes to something ignition related. Changed your plugs/wires lately?

I changed my oil. Pennzoil Synthentic Blend High Mileage. I think the sludge that was in there was keeping it sealed and now the oil is too good/new to do it.

Nah. Doesen't work like that. New oil will seal (rings) better than old oil, by far. Oil consumption always goes up when the oil has become worn out, even if your engine is in tiptop shape and it's too small to notice.

Again, unless something happened to cyl#2, like no oil flow or something, it should have the same ammount of wear as all the other cylinders. Very rarely will worn out rings cause missfires, and if it does.. your engine will double as a mosquito fogger, and it will miss on all cylinders.

Could also be injector related.

You just need a tuneup.

It doesen't sound like you really take very good care of your cars.. 😛

Don't make me come beat you with a bent connecting rod. Keep up with your maintenance!

I changed the oil! And the rotors have been replaced 3 times since I had it! What more do you want? 🙁 :brokenheart:

At 117 miles and a kelly blue book value of $1750, would you risk putting any money into it?

 

[thedarkwolf]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: DougK62
If you're "killing" newish cars in only 3 years then please go somewhere to learn how to properly operate a vehicle.

Element is a good utility vehicle.

I bought the 98 Neon with 74,000 miles on it. Almost 3 years, it now has 117,000. It's dying because cylinder 2 is misfiring, most likey due to warn out rings. Exactly how is that my fault? Maybe I should have invested in the Millenium edition, that alters friction physics and finds wormholes in the spametime continuum? 😛

Worn out rings are not your problem. Typically, the rings wear evenly.

It is entirely possible that cyl#2 has become damaged and compression is too low to fire, but my bet goes to something ignition related. Changed your plugs/wires lately?

I changed my oil. Pennzoil Synthentic Blend High Mileage. I think the sludge that was in there was keeping it sealed and now the oil is too good/new to do it.

Nah. Doesen't work like that. New oil will seal (rings) better than old oil, by far. Oil consumption always goes up when the oil has become worn out, even if your engine is in tiptop shape and it's too small to notice.

Again, unless something happened to cyl#2, like no oil flow or something, it should have the same ammount of wear as all the other cylinders. Very rarely will worn out rings cause missfires, and if it does.. your engine will double as a mosquito fogger, and it will miss on all cylinders.

Could also be injector related.

You just need a tuneup.

It doesen't sound like you really take very good care of your cars.. 😛

Don't make me come beat you with a bent connecting rod. Keep up with your maintenance!

I changed the oil! And the rotors have been replaced 3 times since I had it! What more do you want? 🙁 :brokenheart:

At 117 miles and a kelly blue book value of $1750, would you risk putting any money into it?

I think he wants you to spend the $6 and change the spark plugs

 

[Pocatello]

I don't think the Element is fugly, just ugly. The rubbermaid interior...now that's some fugly.

 

[styrafoam]

It's paid for, any money you put into repairs will likely be far less than you put into any new vehicle in the first year when you compare your down payment/taxes/licensing/insurance and new monthy car payment.


Spend $30 and do the plugs and wires, if you have had the rotors done 3 times its time to find a different mechanic. You aren't going to Mineke or David Squirrly to have your brakes repaired, are you?

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: BigSmooth
It's underpowered, and the styling is polarizing, but they are certainly very practical vehicles. My coworker loves hers.

i have an accord with the same motor and i don't think it's underpowered :\

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: BigSmooth
It's underpowered, and the styling is polarizing, but they are certainly very practical vehicles. My coworker loves hers.

i have an accord with the same motor and i don't think it's underpowered :\

Well, as I said.. it does weigh 250 - 300lbs more than the Accord.

And it has more cargo space than the Accord, so it also has the potential to be hauling more.

I doubt it would be unmanagable or anything, but I do agree with the sentiment that a V6 would be nice.. at least give people the option.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: BigSmooth
It's underpowered, and the styling is polarizing, but they are certainly very practical vehicles. My coworker loves hers.

i have an accord with the same motor and i don't think it's underpowered :\

Well, as I said.. it does weigh 250 - 300lbs more than the Accord.

And it has more cargo space than the Accord, so it also has the potential to be hauling more.

I doubt it would be unmanagable or anything, but I do agree with the sentiment that a V6 would be nice.. at least give people the option.

actually i found out why it is slower, the element comes with a 4 speed auto, accord has 5 speed autos.

The 250-300 lb difference alone doesn't make a huge difference, supposedly 100 lbs = .1 sec at the drag strip. But probably combined with less gears to use, it makes it significantly slower.

 

[isekii]

Noone purchases the Element for power and speed.
it's just an all purpose vehicle.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: SagaLore
I bought the 98 Neon with 74,000 miles on it. Almost 3 years, it now has 117,000. It's dying because cylinder 2 is misfiring, most likey due to warn out rings. Exactly how is that my fault?

because you bought a POS Neon 😛

 

[Jamie571]

Go Scion xB.


You will not be disappointed

 

[WolverineGator]

From the TOV (http://www.vtec.net ) 2005 Honda Element Model Changes:
* XM Radio standard on EX model
* Standard chrome exhaust tip
* Revised antenna
* New blue or black cladding
* Standard side airbags
* Cruise on LX

Current pricing (Add $490 to these prices for shipping) from elementownersclub.com :
2WD DX Manual Invoice: $14,881 MSRP: $16,100
2WD DX Auto Invoice: $15,619 MSRP: $16,900
2WD LX Manual Invoice: $15,803 MSRP: $17,100
2WD LX Auto Invoice: $16,541 MSRP: $17,900

2WD EX Manual Invoice: $17,463 MSRP: $18,900
2WD EX Auto Invoice: $18,201 MSRP: $19,700
2WD EX Manual w/Side Airbags Invoice: $17,694 MSRP: $19,150
2WD EX Auto w/Side Airbags Invoice: $18,432 MSRP: $19,950

4WD DX Manual Invoice: $16,172 MSRP: $17,500
4WD DX Auto Invoice: $16,910 MSRP: $18,300
4WD LX Manual Invoice: $17,094 MSRP: $18,500
4WD LX Auto Invoice: $17,832 MSRP: $19,300

4WD EX Manual Invoice: $18,755 MSRP: $20,300
4WD EX Auto Invoice: $19,493 MSRP: $21,100
4WD EX Manual w/Side Airbags Invoice: $18,985 MSRP: $20,550
4WD EX Auto w/Side Airbags Invoice: $19,723 MSRP: $21,350

 

[Stark]

nice specs on the 2005

when I get a car next year, the element is high on the list

1. Volvo V50 T5
2. Element LX
3. Mazda 3

I don't think I can go wrong with any of those picks. 😀