2002 Boxster S w/3.6L X51 Swap

[Arkaign]

I work with some people that have a mechanic trade-in, and it's a gorgeous car. I'm trying to decide if it would be practical for me. I already have a 2008 Focus Coupe that I'll probably keep for another year or two until I trade it in on something a little more practical (my son is turning 2 next month). So this would be a weekender/fun/track car. It's been dynoed @ ~373rwhp, so must be a shade over 400 at the crank? Is the Boxster a reliable car? I looked at the X51, apparently with stock setup it came in 996 Carrera, though not with the full RUF works. Hrm. Thoughts? ZV?

Here are the details :

* 3.6 X51 Engine
* 996 Flywheel
* 996 Clutch
* RUF Engine and Transmission Mounts
* RUF Tuned ECU
* RUF Headers
* RUF Sport Cats
* RUF Muffler
* RUF Air Intake w/BMC Filter

In addition to the extensive engine conversion performed, the following RUF items were also installed:

* RUF Progressive Lowering Springs
* RUF 18" wheels w/Michelin PS2s
* RUF Aerokit-RGT Look
* RUF Steering Wheel
* RUF Shift Knob
* RUF Aluminum Pedals
* RUF Floor Mats

EDIT : Crap, without the price it's not much use, it's $41k after all is said and done.

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
I work with some people that have a mechanic trade-in, and it's a gorgeous car. I'm trying to decide if it would be practical for me. I already have a 2008 Focus Coupe that I'll probably keep for another year or two until I trade it in on something a little more practical (my son is turning 2 next month). So this would be a weekender/fun/track car. It's been dynoed @ ~373rwhp, so must be a shade over 400 at the crank? Is the Boxster a reliable car? I looked at the X51, apparently with stock setup it came in 996 Carrera, though not with the full RUF works. Hrm. Thoughts? ZV?

Here are the details :

* 3.6 X51 Engine
* 996 Flywheel
* 996 Clutch
* RUF Engine and Transmission Mounts
* RUF Tuned ECU
* RUF Headers
* RUF Sport Cats
* RUF Muffler
* RUF Air Intake w/BMC Filter

In addition to the extensive engine conversion performed, the following RUF items were also installed:

* RUF Progressive Lowering Springs
* RUF 18" wheels w/Michelin PS2s
* RUF Aerokit-RGT Look
* RUF Steering Wheel
* RUF Shift Knob
* RUF Aluminum Pedals
* RUF Floor Mats

EDIT : Crap, without the price it's not much use, it's $41k after all is said and done.

Honestly I don't know enough about porches to tell you if it's a good buy or not.

But holy shit that car would be FUN.

 

[Gand1]

I think my biggest concern would be who was the actual person who did all the part swaps and tuning. If it was a qualified person, OK. If it was a schmo mechanic, then I'd have a serious concern.


Hmmm...looking at the RUF website, is this the silver 2002 Boxter they have advertised? If it's coming directly from RUF then yeah, If I could afford it, I'd get it.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Gand1
I think my biggest concern would be who was the actual person who did all the part swaps and tuning. If it was a qualified person, OK. If it was a schmo mechanic, then I'd have a serious concern.


Hmmm...looking at the RUF website, is this the silver 2002 Boxter they have advertised? If it's coming directly from RUF then yeah, If I could afford it, I'd get it.

The work was performed at RUF Auto Center, and the mechanic is an RUF employee

Ah, found the pics :

http://www.ecarlist.com/showro...7/photos/206897#03.jpg

 

[Gand1]

Yup, that's the one..... I'd get it..... just remember, boxster=girly LOL

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Sick car. If you can afford the payments, insurance, and the knowledge that it MAY, without warning, require extremely expensive repairs at any given time (not to overstate the likelihood of this - both Boxsters and 996s are fairly reliable, but hardly cheap to work on), it seems like an awesome weekender.

EDIT: It's interesting how ALL the Porsche badges are replaced with RUF ones. It makes the car look a little monochromatic, but it's gorgeous IMO - the minor body kit changes really enhance the looks.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Gand1
Yup, that's the one..... I'd get it..... just remember, boxster=girly LOL

Heh, well ... that kit on it makes it look a bit meaner than a basic Boxster! Though I agree, it's still a Boxster after all.

I need to go drive it and see if I look like an idiot (I'm 6'3", don't want to look like Shaq in a Miata).

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Gand1
Yup, that's the one..... I'd get it..... just remember, boxster=girly LOL

Heh, well ... that kit on it makes it look a bit meaner than a basic Boxster! Though I agree, it's still a Boxster after all.

I need to go drive it and see if I look like an idiot (I'm 6'3", don't want to look like Shaq in a Miata).

Get it. That thing is a beast.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

How many miles on the car and on the engine?

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
How many miles on the car and on the engine?

Original miles were around 10k, about 2k on the conversion with new X51 motor. So, 12k for the chassis, 2k for the current drivetrain.

 

[exdeath]

The way it should have been from the factory! Stupid artificial market segmentation.

2002 has the plastic rear window. I believe you can locate and retrofit a top assembly from a 2003 with the glass rear window and defroster. That was really the only thing I didn't like about the car, something about a $30k+ shiny perfectly maintained Porsche with a wrinkled yellow rear window.

And ignore the "poor mans Porsche" or girly comments, the Boxster is probably their best chassis, excepting their other mid engine supercar, crippled in stock form only by "market segmenting" that puts a glass ceiling on engine performance.

FYI quick glance puts used 2002 Boxster around $20-25k and the 3.6L engines start around $6k. Typically shouldn't expect to recover the cost of mods when selling a car though, so offer $35k and see what happens

 

[bananapeel42]

Man I'm not sure, that's a ton of aftermarket stuff, when such huge swaps happen you are more prone to problems. If you can afford 41k, look into a 911 Carrera, or even a turbo!!

Yes, that boxter will be a fast car, definitely faster than a 911 Carrera, but still I'd look for a 911 for that amount of money.

 

[exdeath]

I see 100k miles in the pics, not 10k.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: bananapeel42
Man I'm not sure, that's a ton of aftermarket stuff, when such huge swaps happen you are more prone to problems. If you can afford 41k, look into a 911 Carrera, or even a turbo!!

Yes, that boxter will be a fast car, definitely faster than a 911 Carrera, but still I'd look for a 911 for that amount of money.

Not a huge swap, the engines are pretty much interchangeable, as far as bolting in and wiring up and not needing custom mounts or fabrication or cutting or anything. If I remember they are almost identical except for bore/stroke and ECU programming, but it's been a few years since I looked into it and didn't know half of what I do now.

I looked into doing just this before I got my Cobra because I wanted a Boxster so bad, but it conflicted with my requirement of 400+ HP. As much as I've always loved the Boxster, I just had a problem with spending $10g on an engine swap for a mere 40 HP increase (280HP to 320HP) when I could spend $1000 on the Cobra and have nearly double that This one is obviously more than just a straight swap. Stock 996 3.6L is 320 BHP (crank).

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: exdeath
I see 100k miles in the pics, not 10k.

oops, typo in my correspondence Thanks!!!

I hadn't even thought about that. ~100k on the chassis makes me a little bit nervous.

 

[Gand1]

Whoa! 100k...that's kinda a deal breaker especially at that price. I didn't see that one either.

 

[Zenmervolt]

As others have said, it's definitely a 100,000 mile car. You can tell easily from the condition of the seats (they aren't bad, they just look like leather that's been sat in a lot).

That said, I have 160,000 and counting on the 951 and it's still pulling strong. As long as it hasn't been in an accident the chassis should be fine.

I don't know too much about the Boxster, but I haven't heard a lot of complaints about it. The biggest "problem" is that it's a royal pain in the ass to work on anything with the engine. You pretty much have to drop the engine to do any sort of repair work. Still, that's not a huge deal.

At $41k though, you'd need to be pretty damn sure that you wanted the Ruf specifically. If you just want something both fast and fun, there a lot of Porsches that will fit the bill and be significantly less expensive. I'm biased, but a well-maintained 951 can be had in the $7.5k range and an absolutely pristine example won't set you back more than $18k at the absolute most and there's some pretty serious performance headroom if you want to get crazy with it. Even just stock it's plenty fast, the 944 Turbo S cars with 247 hp (crank) posted 5.5 second 0-60 times and it's not difficult to get to 300 at the wheels (~330-ish crank) so they can be wicked fast if you put a little into them. They're killer at the track too, wonderful balance.

The 968 cabriolet is also a nice choice if you like convertibles. Many improvements over the 944 series (including a clutch change procedure that doesn't involve dropping the engine and transmission) but it kept the same handling balance. The 3.0 litre engine in the 944 S2 and 968 also pulls better at low RPM, making it a better cruising car.

Outside of Porsche, the Ferrari 308 series can be had in great shape in the $35k range. (http://www.308book.com/for-sale.php) According to a trusted mechanic friend of mine, the 308 is actually far easier to work on than my 951 and he's very high on the 308s.

I like the Boxsters, but there's a lot of cars out there for that price or lower that will have a lot more character even than a Ruf boxster.

ZV

 

[cheesehead]

That is, to put it simply, one heck of an unusual car.

If you want something hardcore without all the miles, perhaps a Lotus Elise or Lotus Elise supercharged? Remember that the Elise weighs over eight hundred pounds less than the stock Boxster and features an easy to work on Toyota engine to which all manner of rice-tastic upgrades may be applied. It's also much better looking - just seeing one on your computer screen doesn't do it justice.

If you really like Porsches, you could also consider getting an older 911 (coupes only, please!) or even a 914 with a Subaru Impreza engine swap. This is actually far more straightforward than it sounds - you can buy adapter kits online, and the whole engine/turbo/ECU setup can be moved over almost directly. 400HP out of an EJ20 is considered a very low amount, and even a heavily reinforced 914 or 911 will weigh much, much less than your Boxster. (Whether you're willing to put up with a rollcage is another story.)

Or, if you want truly bonkers power, it's actually surprisingly cheap to get a Mazda RX7 with a GM LS2 V8. Due to the small size of the V8 and the deletion of the turbochargers and related plumbing, the weight increase is quite small. The jump in power - to 430 horsepower - isn't.

And if you really want face-ripping power, you could always look into some form of Lotus clone...or perhaps get a used Ariel Atom for only a hair more....

EDIT:
From what I've heard from mechanics, Porsches of all types are very difficult and very expensive to repair. Noteworthy auto critic James May - who owns a stock Boxster - has noted such flaws as brake discs which rust and pit at an absurd rate. This car has quite a few miles on the odometer, almost all of them on a highly tuned engine producing waaay more horsepower than was ever originally intended. I'm pretty sure that Consumer Reports rates the Boxster as "average" in reliability...and this isn't your average boxster.

On the other hand, the Subaru, GM, and Toyota engines above are cheaper, simpler, and more reliable.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Cheesehead
From what I've heard from mechanics, Porsches of all types are very difficult and very expensive to repair. Noteworthy auto critic James May - who owns a stock Boxster - has noted such flaws as brake discs which rust and pit at an absurd rate. This car has quite a few miles on the odometer, almost all of them on a highly tuned engine producing waaay more horsepower than was ever originally intended. I'm pretty sure that Consumer Reports rates the Boxster as "average" in reliability...and this isn't your average boxster.

On the other hand, the Subaru, GM, and Toyota engines above are cheaper, simpler, and more reliable.

In my experience, Porsche engines rarely fail. Early Boxsters had metallurgy issues (porous blocks), but those have been replaced under warranty. Most of the problems that come up, if any, are related to ancillary electrical systems and not to core running gear.

As far as the supposed brake "issue", I've neither heard of it before, nor experienced it in the several Porsches I've had. And let's not get started on the veracity (or, rather, the lack thereof) of any rating that Consumer Reports gives any car. CR is 100% worthless as an automotive reviewer.

ZV

 

[DivideBYZero]

Just being able to say you've owned a Ruf would put you in the Petrol Head hall of fame.

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Cheesehead
From what I've heard from mechanics, Porsches of all types are very difficult and very expensive to repair. Noteworthy auto critic James May - who owns a stock Boxster - has noted such flaws as brake discs which rust and pit at an absurd rate. This car has quite a few miles on the odometer, almost all of them on a highly tuned engine producing waaay more horsepower than was ever originally intended. I'm pretty sure that Consumer Reports rates the Boxster as "average" in reliability...and this isn't your average boxster.

On the other hand, the Subaru, GM, and Toyota engines above are cheaper, simpler, and more reliable.

In my experience, Porsche engines rarely fail. Early Boxsters had metallurgy issues (porous blocks), but those have been replaced under warranty. Most of the problems that come up, if any, are related to ancillary electrical systems and not to core running gear.

As far as the supposed brake "issue", I've neither heard of it before, nor experienced it in the several Porsches I've had. And let's not get started on the veracity (or, rather, the lack thereof) of any rating that Consumer Reports gives any car. CR is 100% worthless as an automotive reviewer.

ZV

I heard Boxters were reliable...and that their owners loved them.

Koing

 

[cheesehead]

Originally posted by: Koing

I heard Boxters were reliable...and that their owners loved them.

Koing

A stock Boxter? Sure.

A Boxter with 400HP?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Cheesehead

Originally posted by: Koing

I heard Boxters were reliable...and that their owners loved them.

Koing

A stock Boxter? Sure.

A Boxter with 400HP?

Ruf vehicles have a pretty stellar record as far as I've ever heard. It's not like the engine was hopped up by cousin Jethro in his backyard.

ZV

 

[Arkaign]

Update

Test drove it around Addison. HOLY CRAP what a ride! On the one hand, it's astonishingly quick, on the other hand, the suspension is so firm that it's a bit brutal to ride in. It's also quite loud. None of this would be totally bad, in fact I guess it's to be expected of something of this caliber. Everything was tight and perfect, and you could literally eat off of anything in the engine bay, it was that clean. RUF is a class act all the way. At the end of the day, I really wanted it, but it's at the edge of being affordable to me, and is also probably a terrible investment. Run of the mill Boxsters are far cheaper (and far slower of course), which drives the resalability of something like this way down. It's hard to find someone who knows what RUF is, and why they're so damned good at what they do, and why their products are actually worth the money (if you can afford their stuff).

So I passed. If my employment situation changes, or if I suddenly need a new transmission or motor or something of that nature, I'd be in a really tight squeeze, and I can't take that chance.

Guess I'll look towards a cheaper alternative in the new year. Perhaps a well-kept '90s MR2, regular Boxster, something like that. Fix it up myself a bit at a time, without feeling the huge financial burden.

But to anyone curious : 400HP + Boxster + Full RUF upgrades = INSANELY FUN!

 

[Kabob]

Looks like a sweet ride, but I too would pass up on a car with 100K miles at that price.

A few ideas:
Early Porsche 996's go on fleabay for under $20K all the time...not sure why as I figured they'd cost a pretty penny still. Corvette C5 Z06's tend to go for under $20K all the time.