2002-2003 Entry-Level Luxury Sport Sedans Comparison Test. BMW wins again...big surprise

[NFS4]

Hrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmm...can't someone else win sometimes?

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/73569/article.html

 

[StattlichPassat]

Like Audi! :disgust:

EDIT: at least it got 'second'...

 

[KingNothing]

It seems like just last year we held a similar comparison test. Oh, wait a minute, it was just last year. Our 2001 Entry-Level Luxury Sport Sedan Test had nine cars and the Acura TL Type-S barely edged out the class favorite, the BMW 330i, for the win.

Someone else *did* win last year, if only for price considerations.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: KingNothing

It seems like just last year we held a similar comparison test. Oh, wait a minute, it was just last year. Our 2001 Entry-Level Luxury Sport Sedan Test had nine cars and the Acura TL Type-S barely edged out the class favorite, the BMW 330i, for the win.

Someone else *did* win last year, if only for price considerations.

Well, I was talking about how they practically gave the BMW X5 3.0 a tie for first place last month at Edmunds.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=38&threadid=855380

 

[LordUnum]

:Q

 

[bigrash]

I want that bmw.

that infinity looks like a passat

 

[Dragnov]

It's all relative to yoru prefernce in style and design. In terms orf reliability, speed, power, etc. thats true, but in terms of comfot, looks, interior, etc. it's all a matter of what you like.

 

[mithrandir2001]

Looking at the competition, I can see why the 330i won.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: mithrandir2001
Looking at the competition, I can see why the 330i won.

The A4 is IMHO the better all around vehicle...but I don't write the articles

 

[mithrandir2001]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mithrandir2001
Looking at the competition, I can see why the 330i won.

The A4 is IMHO the better all around vehicle...but I don't write the articles

The Audi's too heavy. 3627 pounds is not a stat I associate with a sport sedan. If it could shed 300 pounds it would have more thrust and sharper handling.

 

[CtK]

hahahaha cadillac last!!!
they will never build a sports sedan as good as those from Europe or Japan!!!
and its just plain FUGLY!!!


i like the G35 just the rear of the car i cant stand


GO BIMMMER!!!!!!

 

[vi edit]

The Audi's too heavy. 3627 pounds is not a stat I associate with a sport sedan. If it could shed 300 pounds it would have more thrust and sharper handling.

Quattro alone adds about 400 pounds I believe.

 

[mithrandir2001]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

The Audi's too heavy. 3627 pounds is not a stat I associate with a sport sedan. If it could shed 300 pounds it would have more thrust and sharper handling.

Quattro alone adds about 400 pounds I believe.

Ah, Quattro. Yes, that is a significant weight (and acceleration) disadvantage.

 

[SuperTool]

These are all great comparisons when you are just test driving around, but I would like to see which one they would buy if they had to pay for it themselves.

 

[Antoneo]

hahahaha cadillac last!!!

I saw a nice brand new white CTS today in the morning go right past me slowly and it was surprisingly eye-catching. The pictures I've seen on the internet don't seem to rely the feeling right (and besides they usually are shown in that dull imo storm gray). Smallish in size too... seemed fun to drive.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: MistaEng

hahahaha cadillac last!!!

I saw a nice brand new white CTS today in the morning go right past me slowly and it was surprisingly eye-catching. The pictures I've seen on the internet don't seem to rely the feeling right (and besides they usually are shown in that dull imo storm gray). Smallish in size too... seemed fun to drive.

I saw one in black with chrome wheels...didn't look half bad. I guess the black just masks all it's ugly lines

 

[KokomoGST]

Bah! They didn't include some of the models and tests that I would... but then again wouldn't an enthusiast like me be the type of person to buy these cars? I guess mebbe not the majority of the cars... but then sport sedan does have a connotation doesn't it?

I'd go for the Audi A4 1.8T Quattro over the 3.0 for sure... the G35 manual isn't out yet... they didn't test the 325i since that's "too entry level?"
Didn't include the Lexus IS300 manual... a Saab, a Volvo, a VW, and domestic offerings were also all ignored. Don't tell me an A4 can't handle... a 1.8T with proper tuning competes very well with a BMW 3. Ok... actually, it's faster than a 330i thanks to AWD and the turbo torque. But then again, wouldn't it be more fair to also include the WRX and the 330ix instead? Or is the WRX not "luxury"...

I guess it's all moot point for people that tune their cars... I tend to completely ignore ratings/shootouts like this and read the content to see was ACTUAL pro/cons there might be with the car...

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: MistaEng

hahahaha cadillac last!!!

I saw a nice brand new white CTS today in the morning go right past me slowly and it was surprisingly eye-catching. The pictures I've seen on the internet don't seem to rely the feeling right (and besides they usually are shown in that dull imo storm gray). Smallish in size too... seemed fun to drive.

I saw one in black with chrome wheels...didn't look half bad. I guess the black just masks all it's ugly lines

The Edmunds people kept on about how the design "grew on them." I've seen a few colors so far - black, silver, and tan-brown. The black looked sleek and sporty. The tan-brown looked sophisticated and classy. The silver great (for me to poop on).

 

[RagtagOp]

Road Test Editor Neil Dunlop says:
What is all the fuss about? The Infiniti G35 has been a media darling, receiving accolades and finishing ahead of perennial leaders such as the BMW 3 Series and Audi A4 in comparisons at other auto mags. I think it's unwarranted. Sure it's got a lot going for it: unique exterior styling, especially the radical front end; a creamy 260-horsepower V6; a seamlessly shifting automatic transmission; and more grip than peanut butter on the roof of my dog's mouth. Also, it was the least expensive vehicle in our test, with a sticker $7,090 less than the BMW 330i. But, there's something missing. Let's call it harmony. I never felt at one with this car. At low speeds the steering is overboosted and at high speeds it feels a little numb. As a result, I never truly became part of the driving experience. And, while it boasts the highest horsepower in our test (shared with the Acura), it wasn't apparent. The breakaway speed I expected was missing, making me feel like I had missed a "full power" button or accidentally tripped a "reduce power" switch. Though the seats are comfortable, the modern sculpted interior fails to connect, leaving me feeling out of place in the cockpit. That's why this car, despite its attributes, finishes out of the top three for me.

BIAS

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: KokomoGST
I'd go for the Audi A4 1.8T Quattro over the 3.0 for sure...

Why? The 3.0 is faster stock and with "proper tuning" wtf? Most people don't buy these cars to tune.

continued...
Didn't include the Lexus IS300 manual... a Saab, a Volvo, a VW, and domestic offerings were also all ignored

If you read the introduction to the article, you'd know they only included models that changed from last year. If you want a bigger car shoot-out, read their entry-level comparison from last year.

continued...
they didn't test the 325i since that's "too entry level?"

I believe a common complaint of the entry 325i is that it doesn't offer enough standard features for its price. That may be the reason they opted for the 330.

continued...
But then again, wouldn't it be more fair to also include the WRX and the 330ix instead? Or is the WRX not "luxury"...

Of course, the WRX isn't luxury and it costs 7 grand less than the next cheapest car - the TL.

 

[Dudd]

My parents just ordered a CTS. Dissapointing to see it finish last. Then again, they got it for substantially cheaper than your average buyer (grandfather worked for GM=10-20% off), so it probably is a decent deal.

 

[KokomoGST]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: KokomoGST
I'd go for the Audi A4 1.8T Quattro over the 3.0 for sure...

Why? The 3.0 is faster stock and with "proper tuning" wtf? Most people don't buy these cars to tune.

Well, most enthusiasts know that a simple chip & boost controller can make the 1.8T faster than a 3.0 for WAY less $$, less weight, better fuel economy of a 4banger, etcetc...
but then again like I said. If you're not an enthusiast, you would probably care less about performance. And no I don't want a bigger shootout... it's called equal treatment. And a lot of other car journalists considered the addition of a manual to the IS300 a fairly big change for the 2002 model. Just read over RagtagOp's post and tell me that isn't bias...

 

[GTaudiophile]

The latest issue of R&T comes to a similar conclusion: BMW is still the Ultimate Driving Machine. The Infiniti G35 came in 4th in their test (as opposed to 1st in C&D's recent test).

BMW über alles!

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: KokomoGST
Well, most enthusiasts know that a simple chip & boost controller can make the 1.8T faster than a 3.0 for WAY less $$, less weight, better fuel economy of a 4banger, etcetc...but then again like I said. If you're not an enthusiast, you would probably care less about performance.

I agree, but do you expect Edmunds or Autoweek or Road and Track to purchase a new ECU for the road test? These comparisons are for stock vehicles only. But, yea, if I were to purchase any Audi, it would be a 1.8T quattro + new ECU.

And no I don't want a bigger shootout... it's called equal treatment. And a lot of other car journalists considered the addition of a manual to the IS300 a fairly big change for the 2002 model. Just read over RagtagOp's post and tell me that isn't bias...

I don't disagree about the bias. Edmunds is perhaps the biggest bunch BMW ass-kissers I've ever seen. Though, there is a reason the 3-series win's just about every shoot-out from every site. Its an excellent vehicle.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: KingNothing

It seems like just last year we held a similar comparison test. Oh, wait a minute, it was just last year. Our 2001 Entry-Level Luxury Sport Sedan Test had nine cars and the Acura TL Type-S barely edged out the class favorite, the BMW 330i, for the win.

Someone else *did* win last year, if only for price considerations.

Well, I was talking about how they practically gave the BMW X5 3.0 a tie for first place last month at Edmunds.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=38&threadid=855380

dude, it won like half the tests!