2001 Civic EX might be getting too expensive to own

[roguerower]

My '01 Civic is starting to show some age. There's a potential brake and drive-train issue that I've got to get looked at. Seeing as how it's only worth about 2k, if it costs over 1k to fix it'll be time to see what I can get on a trade-in and move on. That said....I'm trying to figure out a replacement. My needs:

-Minimum of AWD. I don't need it in the summer, but it's a must have in the winter. I will have the car for probably for at least 6-10 years.
-Minimum of 1500# towing capacity, 2k# preferred. I need to be able to tow my bike to the track for track days. Bike is 400# and a trailer tips the scales at another #400. I'd also like to have the ability to tow a pop-up camper for when I travel to boogies for jumping. Those easily run 1500#.
-Decent power. My civic isn't exactly breaking records, but it's 0-60 has been clocked at 7.9 seconds.
-Comfort. I'm in it for an hour a day for work, and I routinely drive 3 hours round trip to the dropzones for jumping.
-Economical. Been getting 30-33mpg in my civic depending on how I drive it. If I can average 28 to work (90% highway) I'd be happy.
-Roomy on the inside. Fucking civic is a coffin.

Basically the 2nd and 5th requirements leaves me with choosing a compact SUV.

I don't need leather, sirius, navigation, back-up camera, blah blah blah.

I've narrowed it down to...

-2014 Mazda CX-5 Touring...2.5L skyactiv, 184 hp, 185 ft-lb, 2k# towing, 24/30 mpg
-2013 Ford Escape SE...1.6 (178/184) or 2.0 (240/270) L ecoboost, 2k/3500# towing, 22/30 or 21/28
-2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek Limited...2.0L boxer, 148 hp, 145 ft-lb, 1500# towing, 23/30 manual, 25/33 CVT
-2014 Subaru Forester 2.0XT Premium...2.0L Turbo Boxer, 250 hp, 258 ft-lb, 1500# towing, 23/28 CVT

My original thoughts are the CX-5. Looks great, and appears to have everything I need. My second choice would be the Crosstrek if not for the weak 2.0L boxer and the POS CVT they stuff in there.

Your thoughts?

 

[manimal]

01 civic is worth more than 2k. Dont trade. Sell it outright. Kids pay out the teeth for rusty civics...

Do you have to have new? Even CPO will save you thousands in depreciation.

I would get 3 -4 year old forester and pay less than half what your about to shell out.

 

[roguerower]

According to KBB, it's 2k for trade in, 3k if I sold it. If I go used I'm going to try and find a Forester XT, Impreza WRX wagon, or maybe a Baja. New I don't have to worry about any previous maintenance, drop off my old car, pick up the new one.

 

[power_hour]

Find a cheaper mechanic and keep the Civic. Those Civics are great little cars. Used Forester XT or WRX will scare the shit out of you when that turbo starts to act up and the mechanic wants how much?

 

[jlee]

I replaced the turbo on my Forester XT at 109k. The Cobb Stage 2 tune I ran may have pushed it over the edge, but $365 later I had a VF39 (STi turbo). It's not particularly difficult to replace...I wouldn't let fear of a turbo failure prevent a car choice. To me it's worth replacing every 100-200k if I'm getting another 100hp.

 

[kitatech]

"if it costs over 1k to fix it'll be time to see what I can get on a trade-in and move on...."

Sounds like "new" car itch...I can relate...though every time I looked at my old Altima parked looking nice and shiny, and feeling great too once behind the wheel, I resisted...until it got rearendtotaled...

...even at $1k for major repairs every few years got the 10+ year old car back to where I loved it...so it was more cost effective (value of car to you vs. "sales worth" on the market) to keep it....in my case the mileage was so high that the crash @ 195K miles only netted me $2400 from insurance for my 14-year old car, so it was time...

...still, I like looking at old Altimas running down the road...from my "new" Camry...so I can relate...

Good luck and enjoy whatever choice works for ya...

ps....not being into longterm debt (long-high payments), I got an 05 Camry, a 6 year newer car with 100k fewer miles, for $111/mo.... $90 after fuel savings, so it's only $20/mo more to run, until I run into major repairs again...hopefully after 4 years when the payments end...I intend to keep the Camry for 10 years so that's cost effective to me...

 

[CraigRT]

Out of the choices, for me at least, easily Forester XT.
The CX-5 may be good on gas, but its pretty gutless.

I am surprised you think the Civic is a "coffin" I have a newer one than you, but its huge inside for what it is.

 

[roguerower]

@ CraigRT: Coffin might have been a bad word, but my commute is 30min each way, I routinely drive an hour to an hour and a half to jump at the dropzones, visiting my folks in DC can range from an hour and a half to two hours depending on traffic. There's little to no padding in the seat and the position leaves something to be desired.

@ kitatech: Yes, the itch is there. Out of the 7 guys in my job trailer, 2 have new company vehicles (Explorer & F-150), one has a new FJ and BMW 3-series, one bought a new Accord, one bought a new Jeep Wrangler Unlimited, and the last bought a new Jeep Grand Cherokiee Laredo. And then I pull up to the trailer in my badass civic.

I called up the local Honda dealer asking for a quote to fix the Civic. They quoted $284 to replace the caliper, $267 to replace the pads and mill the rotors if needed. This takes care of the knowns. I've been getting a random shimmy in the drive-train that doesn't seem to be brake dependent. A diagnostic to figure out what the hell it is will run from $40 to $100, and then if it's something dealing with the control arms or drivetrain they said it could run from $800-900. One of my co-workers (FJ & BMW) has an automotive engineering degree and is going to help me replace the caliper and pads, but that doesn't fix the unknown issue which I'm not equipped to fix even if I figure out what it is and will run me probably $800 minimum.

As to my situation now, my personal debt is limited. I have $2k left on my bike that will be paid off this Friday when my bonus hits my bank account. I've got $400 in federal student loans that will also be paid off this Friday. My total CC "debt" is $1k. I have $9k in a Navy ROTC loan that I'm repaying but it's at 2% and only runs $120/mo. I'm 26, not married, no kids.

After looking into it more, the '14 Forester XT is grabbing my attention. It still looks kinda soccer-momish, but I've always liked the general size and layout of it. I like the fact that it's more wagon than SUV. The only thing I don't like is the 1500# towing capacity. I don't understand how the 2nd generation was rated at 2400# and the 4th is only good for a measly #1500.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

You are about to be out of debt so you're ready to take some more on? Not understanding the logic there.

What's caliper and pads run you at rockauto? Couldn't be much.

Why do you need a 14 when you'll likely trade it off in 3 years? A used vehicle if bought at the right mileage and condition can give you the same trouble free 3 years for much less cost. Cheaper insurance rates, cheaper ttl, less depreciation costs to eat, etc..

 

[jlee]

They quoted $284 to replace the caliper, $267 to replace the pads and mill the rotors if needed.

$27.89 after core for a semi-loaded front caliper. ($15 core). Replace them both, as well as both front rotors (Brembo blanks are $14.87 each).

Even if you don't return the cores, you're at $115.52 + shipping (minus 5% Rock Auto discount code - they're floating around all over). So $109.74 + shipping to have your front brakes completely redone.

Too bad you weren't out here - get it done in an afternoon and save you $400.

 

[roguerower]

I'm already planning on redoing the brakes myself. $80 at pep boys gets me a caliper for the one wheel, and pads for both front wheels. While I'm down there it makes sense to replace the pistons and most likely the bearings. Maybe $200 in total parts. The problem is that I'm about 99% sure that this fixing all this wont fix the drive-train issue.

I'm not looking to pick up a car and dump it in 3 years. I've had this Civic for almost 4 and if it wasn't for these issues I wouldn't be asking this. If I buy a car it'll be with me for a while.

I'm not crazy about getting back into depth, but even going with a used car is gonna require some financing.

 

[jaedaliu]

$27.89 after core for a semi-loaded front caliper. ($15 core). Replace them both, as well as both front rotors (Brembo blanks are $14.87 each).

Even if you don't return the cores, you're at $115.52 + shipping (minus 5% Rock Auto discount code - they're floating around all over). So $109.74 + shipping to have your front brakes completely redone.

Too bad you weren't out here - get it done in an afternoon and save you $400.

If you can't do it yourself, find a good mechanic that will let you bring parts to him. He'll be a little bit more expensive on hourly rate per job, but you get better prices than he will on parts because you can mail order and they will arrive in a week, while he needs to get his stuff same day. your theoretical $2000 repair is down to $110 for parts + 80sish for labor for the full brake job, then next step is a tire shop to see if that's your shimmy (if your caliper is really stuck that could be your shimmy.)

It depends on how badly you want to tow your bike. You definitely shouldn't do that with your civic. But it seems like it'll work for everything else.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I'm already planning on redoing the brakes myself. $80 at pep boys gets me a caliper for the one wheel, and pads for both front wheels. While I'm down there it makes sense to replace the pistons and most likely the bearings. Maybe $200 in total parts. The problem is that I'm about 99% sure that this fixing all this wont fix the drive-train issue.

I'm not looking to pick up a car and dump it in 3 years. I've had this Civic for almost 4 and if it wasn't for these issues I wouldn't be asking this. If I buy a car it'll be with me for a while.

I'm not crazy about getting back into depth, but even going with a used car is gonna require some financing.

Replace the pistons?
Bearings id definitely pull em and look the over then repack them.
What is the car doing exactly? I definitely would have it looked at by someone competent and then you'll know definitely if you need a new ride.

 

[roguerower]

If you can't do it yourself, find a good mechanic that will let you bring parts to him. He'll be a little bit more expensive on hourly rate per job, but you get better prices than he will on parts because you can mail order and they will arrive in a week, while he needs to get his stuff same day. your theoretical $2000 repair is down to $110 for parts + 80sish for labor for the full brake job, then next step is a tire shop to see if that's your shimmy (if your caliper is really stuck that could be your shimmy.)

It depends on how badly you want to tow your bike. You definitely shouldn't do that with your civic. But it seems like it'll work for everything else.

The entire brake job will be my co-worker and I. Calipers, rotors, pads, and bearings should run about $160. Throw in $10 for a pizza to feed us.

Replace the pistons?
Bearings id definitely pull em and look the over then repack them.
What is the car doing exactly? I definitely would have it looked at by someone competent and then you'll know definitely if you need a new ride.

The current situation is that the front right wheel will not spin freely in neutral when on a jack. It will rotate, but a measureable amount of force is required. This did not cause a shimmy on the entire drive home yesterday from DC. Don't know why, but it didn't. The front left wheel spins freely with minimal force...jacked up that side of the car just to confirm it.

What I believe to be the drive train issue is a shimmy that sometimes occurs and othertimes doesn't. It can be described as a mild shimmy when the gas pedal is depressed from roughly 10-50% at speeds ranging from 45 to 70mph. More than that still results in a shimmy, however not as pronounced. The occurence is random. I can drive from A to B and there's no shimmy. I drive from B to C and there's a shimmy. I drive from C to D the first half it shimmies, the second half it doesn't.

Now, the reason I believe it to be a drive train issue is that I have a fairly twisty road the last part of my drive into work and the first part of my drive home. 40mph road with multiple 25mph curves. If I take a curve too quickly, either left or right, I will hear a *POP* and the car feels like it minutely shifts towards the outside of the curve. The second to last turn before the highway is 15mph curve to the left and the last turn before getting on the highway is a hard 10mph curve to the right. If I take the left hard and hear a pop and then take the right hard and get a pop, 9 times out of 10 I'll get a shimmy. If I take the left hard and hear a pop and take the right soft, I'll usually get a smooth ride.

I'm not a mechanic, but the *POP* has got to be coming from a joint of some kind. Seeing as how the shimmy is directly tied to the gas pedal leads me towards my drive-train hypothesis.

EDIT: Recommend a good brake pad manufacturer?

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Not a mechanic either but doesn't sound too serious IMO. It needs to be repaired sure but whole car replacement it is not. Could be simple as tie rod or ball joints. Definitely sounds like you need a new set of bearings. Is it a whole assembly or can the bearings be replaced?

 

[roguerower]

Not a mechanic either but doesn't sound too serious IMO. It needs to be repaired sure but whole car replacement it is not. Could be simple as tie rod or ball joints. Definitely sounds like you need a new set of bearings. Is it a whole assembly or can the bearings be replaced?

Looking into it now.

 

[roguerower]

1xCentric Left Caliper
1xCentric Right Caliper
1xMonroe Brake Pad Set
2xRaybestos Rotors

$140 + $32 shipping = $172. Fuck the dealerships $540 to replace ONE caliper, replace the pads, and MILL the rotors.

 

[jaedaliu]

1xCentric Left Caliper
1xCentric Right Caliper
1xMonroe Brake Pad Set
2xRaybestos Rotors

$140 + $32 shipping = $172. Fuck the dealerships $540 to replace ONE caliper, replace the pads, and MILL the rotors.

YEAH! It's way cheaper if you buy the parts online and do it yourself. Tire/brake shops will charge you ~$15/rotor to turn them so you may not have to buy new ones. The problem is, if you DO need new ones, and don't get them online, and wait until wrench day to find out, you'll have to pay more to get them locally.

Or, if you want to spend your free time relaxing on the couch instead, getting a good, inexpensive mechanic.

 

[jlee]

If you're getting loaded calipers, they come with pads.

 

[roguerower]

If you're getting loaded calipers, they come with pads.

Semi-loaded. Just scared myself though. Looked up my order and it looked like it had a drum brake in the photo. Then clicking through I realized that the photos weren't right. Right caliper has a picture that says "left caliper".

 

[Modular]

I'm in this boat, but my 2002 Civic EX just puked the auto trans. No forward gears and only slight reverse plus a check engine light. That's real car troubles lol. Brakes are easy and fun.

 

[power_hour]

I'm in this boat, but my 2002 Civic EX just puked the auto trans. No forward gears and only slight reverse plus a check engine light. That's real car troubles lol. Brakes are easy and fun.

Ouch. That's weird. The 02s were pretty solid from what I could tell. How many miles? Was it built on a Friday? Mind you, I would never buy an older slushbox Civic when their sticks were just so damn good. I am thinking a rebuilt or replacement tranny should be around $1500-1700. I wouldn't scrap the car. Fix it and if still looks a money pit then dump it while it still drives ok

 

[bruceb]

Sounds like you have a bad cv joint, in which case, it is simpler to replace the axle assembly on the side with problem. You can rebuild them, but it is faster, and sometimes almost as cheap to just swap the axle for a reman unit. And if you are replacing calipers, I would suggest doing both fronts at the same time. This will avoid any chance of the one you don't change now, failing or binding a few months down the road. Brakes will operate better and feel better as well. While you are in there, flush the brake system and use new fluid. For a car that old, it is time to be done and you need to bleed the system anyway after the new calipers are installed.

 

[roguerower]

Snip

I'm replacing calipers, rotors, and pads on both sides. Already down there, might as well do both. The brake fluid was flushed and replaced 10k miles ago, might end up doing it also.

Once the brakes are fixed, it'll be time to try and figure out what the heck is going on with the shimmy.

 

[roguerower]

Replaced everything yesterday, took about 2 hours total. Left side was fine, if not a little rusty (13 year old car with original calipers/rotors) but the right side was fucked. The pads were completely gone and we had to take a hammer to knock the caliper off the rotor. Rotor was scored in several places.

Bled the brakes and took it on a test drive, worked great. We'll see if this shakes the shimmy!

That said, I opened pandora's box looking for a new car...the itch is still there.