2000 SVT Contour vs. 2007 Honda Civic Si

[GasX]

I was checking out a 2007 Civic Si today and it occured to me, that it was very much like the 2000 Ford Contour SVT that I used to LOVE. Let's take a loot at some basic specs:

Doors
SVT: 4
Si: 4

Engine
SVT: 2.5L V6 NA
Si: 2.0L I4 NA

HP
SVT: 200
Si: 197

Torque
SVT: 169 ft-lb
Si: 138 ft-lb

Fuel Economy
SVT: 18 mpg / 27 mpg / 21 mpg
Si: 23 mpg / 32 mpg / 22.5 mpg

Curb Weight
SVT: 3126 lbs
Si: 2945 lbs

Wheelbase
SVT: 106.5"
Si: 106.3"

The SVT has more torque and the Civic has less curb weight. I have not yet driven the Civic, but they seem like the same car. Has anyone driven both?

 

[HannibalX]

The SVT Contour is one of, if not the best handling FWD car ever made. The Honda... not so much.

 

[zerocool84]

I was checking out a 2007 Civic Si today and it occured to me, that it was very much like the 2000 Ford Contour SVT that I used to LOVE. Let's take a loot at some basic specs:

Doors
SVT: 4
Si: 4

Engine
SVT: 2.5L V6 NA
Si: 2.0L I4 NA

HP
SVT: 200
Si: 197

Torque
SVT: 169 ft-lb
Si: 138 ft-lb

Fuel Economy
SVT: 18 mpg / 27 mpg / 21 mpg
Si: 23 mpg / 32 mpg / 22.5 mpg

Curb Weight
SVT: 3126 lbs
Si: 2945 lbs

Wheelbase
SVT: 106.5"
Si: 106.3"

The SVT has more torque and the Civic has less curb weight. I have not yet driven the Civic, but they seem like the same car. Has anyone driven both?

The near 200lbs is a much bigger difference than 30ft/lbs. The Civic Si is geared for acceleration as well to make up for it's lack or torque but they're both low 15 second cars and closely matched that simple human error could win the race but in benchmark racing the Civic Si is faster but only by a hair.

 

[NutBucket]

The SVT Contour is one of, if not the best handling FWD car ever made. The Honda... not so much.

According to who? In general, it is Honda who have made some of the best handling FWD cars to date. Ford has as well, just not in this country

But to say the SVT will easily outhandle an Si, you're in for a surprise me thinks.

 

[HannibalX]

Me thinks you don't know much about the SVT Contour. According to who? Just about every major automotive testing house in existence. The car continues to set the bar for FWD handling over ten years later. Do some reading.

 

[NutBucket]

Same reviewers that said the last Prelude was the best handling FWD ever etc etc. Look, reviewers are reviewers. Drive the damned car and see what you like better.

Although, I think the newest Civic Type-R is probably a real hoot. Too bad we'll never see it.

On the same note, I'm sure the latest Focus RS is real hoot as well.

Handling is subjective anyway.

 

[HannibalX]

Automotive testing houses are not car review magazines.

Handling isn't subjective at all, it can be measured. Get back to me when you're done reading.

 

[thomsbrain]

Me thinks you don't know much about the SVT Contour. According to who? Just about every major automotive testing house in existence. The car continues to set the bar for FWD handling over ten years later. Do some reading.

Lolercatz.

Last time I saw a best-handling test by a respectable magazine, the Honda Prelude SH was crowned the best handling car under $30,000, regardless of drivetrain. That means it not only was the best FWD, it was better than the RWD cars, too. It also gave the cost-no-object crowd a run for their money, too, finishing mid-pack (M3 took top honors). Those articles came out the same year the SVT was introduced, although I don't have them in front of me so I can't say if it was included. However, I've read from folks who have driven both the SH and SVT extensively who say the SVT is nowhere near the SH in terms of handling.

The Prelude featured an active torque transfer system, not just a limited-slip. It was basically the same system that is now featured in cars like Ferraris, Acuras, BMW's, and Audis, but the Prelude had it more than a decade ago. The system is so effective that it has been banned from WRC.

The SVT Contour was a cool car, but it wasn't the ultimate FWD even at the time it was built.

As for the Civic Si, its handling has received a lot of praise, and I've driven one and found it to be very responsive, but I don't know how it would compare to the others. It doesn't handle as well as the S2000, I know that from experience (though there is a hardcore Japan and euro version that actually does out-handle the S2000).

 

[NutBucket]

But magazines aren't "testing houses".

Please enlighten us. Who are these "testing houses"?

 

[Kroze]

Honda Prelude & Acura Integra

 

[AstroManLuca]

How does the Civic get 23/32 MPG yet have an average of 22.5? Was that a typo?

 

[NutBucket]

All depends on how hard you drive it. Though, I believe those are EPA numbers in which case I haven't a clue!

 

[LOUISSSSS]

i've never heard anything about the SVT being the best fwd car. There is no way its better than a prelude, and also a chance its worse than the civic SI/Type R.

please reference to where a published article says the SVT contour is the best handling FWD car in production.

 

[996GT2]

Me thinks you don't know much about the SVT Contour. According to who? Just about every major automotive testing house in existence. The car continues to set the bar for FWD handling over ten years later. Do some reading.

Really? The SVT Contour is better handling than the ~2800 lb FD2 Civic Type R? Better than the John Cooper Works Mini Cooper S? Better than the Prelude Type SH with ATTS?

Sure, the Contour is good. Nobody's denying that. But saying that it's "the bar for FWD handling over 10 years later" requires some backing up.

And FYI, since you didn't say "set the bar for cars sold in America"...the FD2 JDM Civic Type-R runs laps in the 1 min 7 sec range at Tsukuba circuit (a very handling intensive track), which puts it in the same league as a Porsche 911 Carrera or E46 BMW M3, both with ~100 more horsepower (not to mention RWD).

 

[JulesMaximus]

The SVT Contour is one of, if not the best handling FWD car ever made. The Honda... not so much.

And after 9 years the Contour will be falling apart and worth less than a pile of dog vomit. The Honda... not so much.

And I don't recall ever hearing ANYONE say that the SVT was the best handling FWD car ever made. That smacks of complete and utter nonsense.

 

[mwmorph]

And after 9 years the Contour will be falling apart and worth less than a pile of dog vomit. The Honda... not so much.

And I don't recall ever hearing ANYONE say that the SVT was the best handling FWD car ever made. That smacks of complete and utter nonsense.

I believe he's talking about the Edmunds article:

http://www.insideline.com/ford/contour-svt/1998/audi-a4-vs-ford-svt-contour-vs-infiniti-g20.html

The SVT Contour is simply the best handling front-wheel drive sedan sold in this country.

People easily forget exactly how good the Contour when it came to this country. It was not a commercial success, not because it drove poorly, rather it was class leading, but because it was too expensive and small, after all the Contour was the Euro Mondeo at the time, the SVT was a very nicely handling sedan.

Also I doubt you guys criticizing him have actually driven a SVT Contour. I won't speculate which is better handling, a Prelude SH or SVT Contour, because that would be very, very close but if I had to put my money on either a 2009 Civic Si or 2000 Contour SVT, I would put it on the Contour every time. From that time period, let's say the 5 years from 1998-2003, there were a few FWD standouts, the Mazdaspeed protege, Focus SVT, Contour SVT, Integra Type R and Prelude SH (996GT2 brought up cars that have never been sold in America and AFIAK, the SVT Contour is not available in Europe)

The best handling line could be argued, but it would be up there with the cars at the time and definitely better than a Civic Si which is eclipsed by today's top teir FWD handlers like the Mazdaspeed 3, Mini Cooper S/JCW, etc.

 

[Vetterin]

I've raved about my 98 SVT on this board a few times saying it was more fun and enjoyable to drive then my 85 Vette. It was a really good car in its day and did handle very well. Noone has yet mentioned that it also had a top speed (drag limited) of 143 mph. FWIW, I had it for 9 years 82,000 miles and my biggest expense was a burn out fuel pump.

 

[Kntx]

I have a SVT contour and while it handles very nicely, it's not as good as some of the more modern sporty FWDs.

 

[AMCRambler]

Prelude SH is not a sedan. It's a coupe. The Contour SVT is a four door sedan. Taken in that context, the statement is probably true. I don't think the Civic Si's came in four door versions the years the Contour SVT was in production.

In the 98', 99' and 00' model years they made the SVT, I can't think of any other 4 door sedans with the performance of the Contour SVT and the handling thanks to the upgraded suspension. The the 250 hp Maximas from that year would probably come closest price/performance wise. Not sure how their handling compares as I've never driven one.

I had my Contour SVT for 4 years and you are right, they depreciated way faster than the Honda's. They did have their issues too. Fuel pumps were prone to go bad. Mine was on it's third when I sold it. They had some issues with rust on the sub-frame supports in the rear. And mine actually had the gas tanks straps rust through. As far as body rust though, they held up very well. Mine had no rust spots on the body work. A similar Honda from that year would be guaranteed to have the lovely rust spots on the corners of the rear wheel wells. Parts were also way cheaper than a Honda. The best thing about them was no stupid timing belts. The Duratec V6 uses chains so no 800 bucks for a timing belt/water pump replacement.

Oh and I think there was a souped up version of the Mondeo in Europe called the ST200 or something like that. It had better suspension but I don't think it had the upgraded cylinder heads on the motor.

 

[NutBucket]

Except that the OP specifically compared is Contour to the '07 Si, which is available as a sedan. And the other poster claimed it was the best handling FWD car period, no mention of sedans or coupes etc.

Now, to say the SVT is the best handling FWD sedan of its era may be perfectly reasonable. But, that's not what's being claimed in this thread

 

[AMCRambler]

Except that the OP specifically compared is Contour to the '07 Si, which is available as a sedan. And the other poster claimed it was the best handling FWD car period, no mention of sedans or coupes etc.

Now, to say the SVT is the best handling FWD sedan of its era may be perfectly reasonable. But, that's not what's being claimed in this thread

I was responding in reference to MWMorph's post regarding the Edmunds article. He postulated that perhaps iFX was referring to that article and merely misquoted it saying all front wheel drive cars. He may not be far off though. The suspension on the SVT was upgraded from the stock Contour whereas from what I've read the Prelude was standard.

In a straight line, the Prelude would whip the Contour. in an autocross or on a road track I think the Contour would have the edge.

EDIT: I would not go so far as to say the Contour is the best handling FWD car of all time. There are many others that are quicker around a track.

 

[foghorn67]

According to who? In general, it is Honda who have made some of the best handling FWD cars to date. Ford has as well, just not in this country

But to say the SVT will easily outhandle an Si, you're in for a surprise me thinks.

Me guesses you still know nothing. C&D, R&T, and many others said the same. Even a C&D a couple of years back unabashedly said the same when referring to years prior. Now you are trying to argue semantics.

There is a hell of a lot more then paper racing cars. Nobody claimed that the SVT was the best at slalom, lane changes, skidpads or lap times. They just said it was the best handling FWD car. Handling is a subjective term.

But again, all the arguments since this post has you backpedaling. I bet you had no idea that the SVT was praised for anything then.

If anybody is TRULY interested, just find a way to drive both.

 

[NutBucket]

When did I deny the SVT was praised? Actually, I never said anything negative about it period. Hell, if you look up I already said handling is subjective, only to be criticized. This whole thing is pointless!

 

[Majunior]

Here's what I'm finding for handling performance..
01 SVT Contour
.84g Skidpad
67.5 mph Slalom

07 si Sedan
.84 skidpad
68.5 mph Slalom

06 Si coupe
.85 skidpad
68 mph slalom

looks pretty close to me. /meh I still love my 07 si sedan!

 

[Arkaign]

Focus SVT handled even better than the SVT Contour, both were shockingly good for their price points. IIRC the recent gens of Civic Si are a little bit watered down from the previous ones handling-wise. Not that they handle badly by any means. The 5G Preludes also performed really well for a FF vehicle.

Anyway, when it was new, the Focus SVT was judged to be better than the Mini Cooper S, the Civic Si, Beetle Turbo S, and so on. The real limiting factor was the 170hp Zetec 4-banger, which was quickly outclassed by the increasing power options in the class range, such as the not-that-expensive Neon SRT4. It's really a shame Ford didn't keep things up by offering the Duratec Turbo that they eventually put in the MazdaSpeed3.