2000 avalon with 1mzfe engine- overheated and more - UPDATE!!

[slag]

Story as told from point of view from person this happened to.

I was driving home after work and about 10 miles from home, noticed my heat had shut off. The fan was running, its just there was no more warm air. A mile or two later, I started smelling something odd. I come up to a stop sign and my car died.

The stop sign is near the top of a hill but you still need to pull up to the top and continue so a nice man got out and started helping me with the car (pushing), but it wouldn't budge. I then tried to start it again after about 15 minutes and it started but didn't sound right. I was able to limp it home, and smoke was pouring out of the engine bay. When they popped the hood, it wasn't steam, but smoke pouring out and most of it was coming from this location (she points to the upper timing belt cover).

There is a light film of anti freeze on things, but it doesn't smell like anti freeze in the engine bay. I wiped it on my finger and its definitely sweet like Antifreeze. The car will turn over and start, but there is a loud screeching from the timing cover. This is an interference engine. I didn't ask her at the time about her timing belt replacement or when she did it, but she is at 170k on the car now. She takes it into a shop to have maintenance done on it, so hopefully she's had the belt replaced before.

Ideas as to what is wrong? There was oil in the engine and it wasn't contaminated. Obviously we will know what the problem is when we take the timing belt cover off, but its single digits and below outside right now and I think she's just going to take it in. I told her to not drive it somewhere, but get it towed instead.

Here's what we know. She lost heat. Either the water wasn't circulating any more, or there is a leak. There is a film of AF on everything, so there is a leak. What would cause the leak? Well, I think its the water pump giving up the ghost. That, coupled with the fact that when she turned it over, there was a loud scraping, screeching noise coming from the timing belt cover, leads me to believe the pump grenaded and has caused all sorts of problems. Since this is an interference engine, if the shaft sheared, she has lost time and has damaged her engine probably.

What do you guys think?

Got an email from her:

> So, apparently, I have a broken timing belt, broken timing tensioner, water pump, and pulley idler

$860 for parts and labor.

I think she is very very lucky. I doubt the timing belt is broken, but is surely ruined after rubbing on the water pump or idler pulley

 

[monkeydelmagico]

yep, take it to the shop unless you have the skills and tools to perform a main seal replacement. By "limp it home" how far did this person drive the car with no coolant in it?

 

[slag]

yep, take it to the shop unless you have the skills and tools to perform a main seal replacement. By "limp it home" how far did this person drive the car with no coolant in it?

Probably 5-6 miles. I could do the work, I just don't know if I want to with it being so bitterly cold. I'd love to help her out since she is a family friend, but who knows what I will find if I dig into it.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Probably 5-6 miles. I could do the work, I just don't know if I want to with it being so bitterly cold. I'd love to help her out since she is a family friend, but who knows what I will find if I dig into it.

Yeah it's tough sometimes being the family mechanic. This is one of those times where you just gotta say no. The noises are what's weird unless the coolant puked into the timing chain then it makes some sense. Gonna take some time to diagnose. Heated shop is a must have right now. Worst case scenario is a junk yard run for a new old motor.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I cannot stress enough, that if you are the person paying or dealing with car repairs you need to make sure that ALL drivers know to immediately pull over and call you if there's some problem.

Often times you start out with a simple problem, broken belt, weeping water pump, and it has some small indication of an issue... Smoke, sweet smell, or no heat from dash, etc. If the person immediately pulls over then it could be a simple couple hundred $$ repair.

For some reason there seems to be some bizarre innate human nature to get home at any cost without calling anyone or getting any help.

So, someone goes from a simple $500 water pump repair to a $1500 blown headgasket to a $4000 new motor over a 10 mile period, all in the interest of saving $100 by calling a dealer and getting a tow.


Sounds to me like it was initially a fairly simple coolant loss or water pump failure, indicated by lack of heat through the vents. If the person had pulled over right then and called you or a shop, they would've been told to NOT risk driving the car as it likely has no coolant.

Instead, the person continued trying to attempt to drive and restart the car with no coolant, then drove 10 miles, overheating and probably seizing the motor.


Tough news, I know, but it is what it is. This is a driver training error more than a vehicle failure, in my opinion.

In regards to the car itself... Did you pop the radiator cap to check for coolant? If she really did drive it for 10 miles with no coolant then that motor is toast. At 170k miles, it is likely not worth replacing the motor.

Sad, and I feel bad for her mistake. Good luck with it, make sure they realize the importance of calling for help next time. :-/

 

[SpatiallyAware]

yep, take it to the shop unless you have the skills and tools to perform a main seal replacement. By "limp it home" how far did this person drive the car with no coolant in it?

A main seal has nothing to do with coolant, nor does it have anything at all to do with the problem the OP indicated...

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Probably 5-6 miles. I could do the work, I just don't know if I want to with it being so bitterly cold. I'd love to help her out since she is a family friend, but who knows what I will find if I dig into it.

A FWD engine swap is no joke.

Sounds like the car is outside? You would need to factor 2-3 full days for a home mechanic... Absolute bare minimum, and you will be dealing with engine hoists, removing the hood, storing the 'new' motor until it's installed, and it's really a 2 person job for a DIY-er.

I strongly suggest offering to help find a reputable shop and get quotes, helping her find a replacement vehicle, but not going any further with it.


Get involved and next thing you know you will have a rebuilt engine in, but the car not running for who knows what reason, and now she's spent $$+$ on parts that will get flushed down the toilet rather than go towards a replacement vehicle... It would be very easy for you to end up being the bad guy in this situation.

 

[pauldun170]

Considering the cooling system failure the screeching is likely the water pump pulley (between the alternator pulley and the AC)
Screeching is either the belt slipping on a stuck pulley or the innards of the pump throwing a fit.

Drain the oil and check for flakes. If no flakes or debris you might luck out and it was just the water pump going out spectacularly. Water pump is what? 35$

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Considering the cooling system failure the screeching is likely the water pump pulley (between the alternator pulley and the AC)
Screeching is either the belt slipping on a stuck pulley or the innards of the pump throwing a fit.

A seized water pump, no big deal.

Driving 10 miles on a seized water pump..? Even if the timing belt is intact, that motor is likely toast.

 

[LTC8K6]

Hopefully it is just what pauldun said. The WP locked up, and the coolant boiled off, but the engine is okay.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

No heat at all through the heater core means that it's unlikely the pump was turning.

10 miles of driving with no coolant circulating... Even in single digits, I would be extremely surprised if the motor isn't toast.

 

[slag]

I'm hoping for for the best. The smoke coming out of the upper cover could be exactly what you guys said, the timing belt rubbing on the water pump pully that was seized. It's not too hard to get the cover off, but I think I will err on the side of caution and have her take it to a shop. I already offered to rent a 2 wheel car dolly and pull it to her shop with my truck to help her save some money.

Changing a water pump on this car looks really simple, but just not something I want to get into and I couldn't try to fix it until Saturday anyway.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

http://diyservice-en.blogspot.com/2011/09/how-to-replace-timing-belt-on-1mz-fe.html

I would guess 6-8 hours, assuming you're extremely comfortable wrenching. And that assumes you've already picked up the special toyota crank tool and pulley remover, and rented or made the camshaft pulley holding tool. It requires lifting the motor off the mounts as well.

It's no audi v8 timing setup, but it isn't a RWD ranger. Good of you to help her, either way.

 

[slag]

updated..

 

[PottedMeat]

> So, apparently, I have a broken timing belt, broken timing tensioner, water pump, and pulley idler

$860 for parts and labor.

I think she is very very lucky. I doubt the timing belt is broken, but is surely ruined after rubbing on the water pump or idler pulley

that doesn't seem too bad if the timing belt kept the valves from crashing.

how much is a normal timing belt/pump/tensioner replacement service on that engine?


i'd see if she could get the mechanic to save the fried parts and examine them

 

[LTC8K6]

Yeah, you said it was an interference engine, and then you reported a broken timing belt...those two are not generally a good combination.

 

[slag]

Yeah, you said it was an interference engine, and then you reported a broken timing belt...those two are not generally a good combination.

They probably told her it was broken but it just needed replaced

 

[nismotigerwvu]

That or they might have said it needs a new timing belt and to her that means the old one is "broken" then.

 

[sontakke]

Or worse, they will start working on it and *then* tell her that valves are bent and it will cost her another few thousands to actually put it back together.