20 Coalition Bombs Drop On Mosul: Eyewitness Account

[blastingcap]

Wow so now you're speculating about my race? For once I am going to report your post, because in my opinion you are not only an idiot, but also a bigot. And no, I'm not even an arab lol.

Enjoy your vacation.

Lmao.

Did I say I disliked Iranians for their race? No. I'm just guessing at your motives for continuing your anti-Arab ramblings. You sow misinformation and talk trash about Arab militaries, to the point where you make stuff up about how Jordan is carpet bombing civilians, I am wondering if you are from somewhere with a lot of Arab-haters or something. Iranians have historically been at odds with their western neighbors. I did not say Iranians are bad people. I get along great with Iranians, one of them owns a deli I go to sometimes. I don't like Iran's current leaders but have no problem with the people, as I have said many times.

P.S. I didn't say you were Arab, genius. I said "Iranian (Persian)." Literally. You seem to think Iranians are Arabs. You know what, you're right, you probably aren't either, you are probably a gorilla, as in "gorilla warfare." Lol.

 

[oobydoobydoo]

1) Yes you did.

2) I love you too.

3) Lol so now you scramble to find some other source other than the one you already cited that actually DISPROVES you. Guess what, your new source is simply wrong. Their editor should be fired if that's representative of the quality of their reporting.

Here's a real newspaper: http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...t-has-carried-out-56-air-strikes-against-isis

"Jobour said more than 7,000 Isis militants had been killed since Jordan began participating in coalition air strikes."

7000 Daesh dead over months of Coalition bombing. Not 3 days. Not Jordan.

I don't think anyone with any common sense would believe that Jordan could have killed 7000 militants in 3 days with only 56 F-16 sorties using conventional bombs as opposed to nuclear, chemical, or biological bombs.

But common sense is in short supply with some people.

What is even your argument? Are you saying that Jordan isn't carpet bombing cities? You seem to have fixated on one number, and now that I found data that backs up that number you have switched to arguing about a totally different article and different numbers. If you are arguing about specific numbers, you are arguing with the site that posted them, not me. I say Jordan is indiscriminantly bombing cities, please try and refute my actual statement.


Wait, of course, you can't.

 

[oobydoobydoo]

Lmao.

Did I say I disliked Iranians for their race? No. I'm just guessing at your motives for continuing your anti-Arab ramblings. You sow misinformation and talk trash about Arab militaries, to the point where you make stuff up about how Jordan is carpet bombing civilians, I am wondering if you are from somewhere with a lot of Arab-haters or something. Iranians have historically been at odds with their western neighbors. I did not say Iranians are bad people. I get along great with Iranians, one of them owns a deli I go to sometimes. I don't like Iran's current leaders but have no problem with the people, as I have said many times.

P.S. I didn't say you were Arab, genius. I said "Iranian (Persian)." Literally. You seem to think Iranians are Arabs. You know what, you're right, you probably aren't either, you are probably a gorilla, as in "gorilla warfare." Lol.

Why is my race important to you? What exactly would that do to improve your argument? Your arguments are composed of 50% strawmen and 50% ad-hominem attacks, and now you want to extend the ad-hominem attacks into race? Cool, bigot.


I will see you later, you're not worth arguing with anymore. Anybody can see how ridiculous you are. Notice how nobody came to your aid? You've been on this forum for years. That says something about you, and your crap argument.

 

[blastingcap]

What is even your argument? Are you saying that Jordan isn't carpet bombing cities? You seem to have fixated on one number, and now that I found data that backs up that number you have switched to arguing about a totally different article and different numbers. If you are arguing about specific numbers, you are arguing with the site that posted them, not me. I say Jordan is indiscriminantly bombing cities, please try and refute my actual statement.


Wait, of course, you can't.

The burden of proof is on the one making claims. That's you, not me.

You accused Mosul Eye of saying Jordan was carpet bombing, but in fact they were saying just the opposite if anything. Targeted strikes.

You accused Jordan of carpet bombing and made up a number with no substance. When pressed, you posted a link to a newspaper that literally said 7000 by the entire Coalition since the beginning of Jordan's participation in airstrikes 6 months ago.

Then you found some crappy rag with an editor who was asleep at the wheel that made a reporting error in saying 7000 in 3 days. Is anyone else reporting that? No. It was an editorial error.

You can't even claim that you were misled by that crappy rag, because the FIRST newspaper you cited to was the Israeli one that said 7000, by the entire Coalition, since last September (the beginning of Coalition airstrikes). 7000 in 6 months, not 7000 in 3 days.

I also think your ad hominems and hypocrisy are hilarious. As well as the super hypocrisy of accusing that others did not read the Mosul Eye post, when the post, if anything, actual DISPROVES what you are saying. They say clearly how well targeted the strikes were.

Threads come and go. Nobody cares that much about this topic, genius. The few people who have commented on you, have ridiculed you as well, Mr. "Gorilla Warfare." Is anyone coming to YOUR defense? By your own logic what does that tell you?

It's time for you to retire, Mr. Armchair General.

 

[schmuckley]

 

[werepossum]

Lmao.

Did I say I disliked Iranians for their race? No. I'm just guessing at your motives for continuing your anti-Arab ramblings. You sow misinformation and talk trash about Arab militaries, to the point where you make stuff up about how Jordan is carpet bombing civilians, I am wondering if you are from somewhere with a lot of Arab-haters or something. Iranians have historically been at odds with their western neighbors. I did not say Iranians are bad people. I get along great with Iranians, one of them owns a deli I go to sometimes. I don't like Iran's current leaders but have no problem with the people, as I have said many times.

P.S. I didn't say you were Arab, genius. I said "Iranian (Persian)." Literally. You seem to think Iranians are Arabs. You know what, you're right, you probably aren't either, you are probably a gorilla, as in "gorilla warfare." Lol.

One of the genuinely nicest guys I've ever known was an Iranian fellow engineering student. Although hostages being held, he usually told people he was Jordanian to avoid guilt by association.

Why is my race important to you? What exactly would that do to improve your argument? Your arguments are composed of 50% strawmen and 50% ad-hominem attacks, and now you want to extend the ad-hominem attacks into race? Cool, bigot.

I will see you later, you're not worth arguing with anymore. Anybody can see how ridiculous you are. Notice how nobody came to your aid? You've been on this forum for years. That says something about you, and your crap argument.

Um, nobody came to his aid because he was doing fine by himself.

For the record, Jordan supposedly claims to have killed 7,000 ISIS fighters in three days by striking "key ISIS bases and arms depots" as well as "training bases, garrisons and command centers" in Northeast Syria.

"We are determined to wipe them from the face of the Earth," Gen. Mansour al-Jbour, head of the Jordanian air force, told a news conference.

I strongly suspect that Blastingcap is correct and this is merely an error, but I would not want to be in Raqqa right now. (Or, well, ever.)

http://www.christiantimes.com/artic....rejoins.bombings.against.jihadists/50872.htm

YMMV but Jordan has committed 3/4 of its 40 F-16 fighter-bombers to striking ISIS. Also, the UAE has sent a squadron to Jordan to operate under Jordanian control.

 

[Perknose]

This is a public warning to both oodydoobydoo and blastingcap to tone it down.

blastingcap, flooding Reported Posts about a poster you are having a heated disagreement with, and adding comments to us like, "Mods are you even reading these reports? Get this propagandist out of here please", no matter how frustrated you are, is unwelcome and counterproductive.

If you believe a poster is wrong or in error, correct those errors in your (hopefully somewhat civil) reply. We are not here to do this for you. And bringing your musings as to another poster's race or nationality is dangerous ground, indeed.

oodydoobydoo, you are not exactly covering yourself in glory here. My personal advice to you (ie, not as a moderator), would be to better vet your facts.

Beyond that, despite the fact that we currently allow personal insults in P&N, there are limits as to frequency and vitriol. While allowed, they are not to used as your first resort when responding.

2. Insults or personal attacks are ALLOWED.
(the "no insult" rule was struck down by community vote Jun 06, 2012)
DH0 personal attacks and insults are acceptable in P&N

8/3/12 -- Insults and personal attacks, while permitted, are not to be excessively vitriolic or scatological in nature, nor will any one poster be allowed constantly engage in them. Please let common sense, and some idea of proportion and civility be your guide.

In your short time here, you have already crossed this line more than once.

Both of you will be receiving a formal warning.

Cliffs: You are both behaving in a sub-standard fashion. Please amend your respective approaches.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[blastingcap]

For the record, Jordan supposedly claims to have killed 7,000 ISIS fighters in three days by striking "key ISIS bases and arms depots" as well as "training bases, garrisons and command centers" in Northeast Syria.

"We are determined to wipe them from the face of the Earth," Gen. Mansour al-Jbour, head of the Jordanian air force, told a news conference.

I strongly suspect that Blastingcap is correct and this is merely an error, but I would not want to be in Raqqa right now. (Or, well, ever.)

http://www.christiantimes.com/artic....rejoins.bombings.against.jihadists/50872.htm

YMMV but Jordan has committed 3/4 of its 40 F-16 fighter-bombers to striking ISIS. Also, the UAE has sent a squadron to Jordan to operate under Jordanian control.

First of all let's use common sense. "Carpet bombing fighter jets" is an oxymoron. F-16s are fighter jets not bombers. Jordan doesn't have any strategic bombers so they make do with F-16s. (In contrast, the USAF sent a B-1 strategic bomber to circle Kobane, since the B-1 has much more endurance and much more room for bombs.) F-16s can carry air-to-surface bombs and missiles but in order to kill 7000 with 56 sorties would require incredibly good luck, like hitting jam-packed apartments full of militants with each and every missile.

(To be fair, there's also the element of the SAA's strong antiaircraft defenses in case Assad is crazy enough to try to shoot down your planes, so if you're going to send jets over Assad without his permission, you probably want to send fast jet fighters that have some chance of wiggling way from the SAA's defenses. Remember the first night of Coalition strikes in Syria, Obama sent a bunch of jammers and such in with the jets in Syria, and that a LOT of the strikes were actually with Tomahawk cruise missiles.)

Second, if OP was right that Jordan "carpet bombed" targets, you'd think there'd be more reporting of all the civilian casualties. Instead we get people like Mosul Eye saying the strikes were accurate.

Third, every other paper contradicts "Christian Times." Including the first newspaper that OP cited (the Israeli one). Everyone EXCEPT for "Christian Times" quoted the Jordanian general as saying the entire Coalition, since the start of bombing (last September), killed an estimated 7000 Daesh. Not Jordan alone killing 7000 in 3 days.

The Guardian and LA Times have a long list of Pulitzer Prizes and stronger editorial staff than "Christian Times" apparently. Al Arabiya is in the heart of the Middle East, not too likely they would mistranslate anything.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...t-has-carried-out-56-air-strikes-against-isis "Jobour said more than 7,000 Isis militants had been killed since Jordan began participating in coalition air strikes."

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-jordan-islamic-state-targets-20150208-story.html "Coalition air strikes have killed 7,000 extremist “criminals” since the campaign began, and trimmed some 20% of the militants’ fighting ability, the Jordanian general said."

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...SIS-lost-20-of-its-military-capabilities.html "Jbour also said that the coalition’s air strikes have killed 7,000 members of the militant group."

SUMMARY: OP made a false claim that Jordan "carpet bombed" and caused mass civilian casualties, among the 7000 dead in 3 days. When called out on that misinformation, he produced a link to an Israeli paper that said 7000 over 6 MONTHS--and by the entire Coalition, not just Jordan. OP then cited to a different paper which contradicts every other paper out there (presumably an editorial/reporting error on their part). Along the way he was his usual charming self.

The facts are the facts. I hate misinformation. Jordan and the rest of the Coalition have not been "carpet bombing" civilians in Syria and Iraq.

/mic drop

 

[GoPackGo]

ISIS made a huge mistake killing the pilot and even greater mistake by killing him the way they did.

The people of Jordan didn't really support their nation being involved. Now from the reporting I heard most are now all in.

 

[oobydoobydoo]

First of all let's use common sense. "Carpet bombing fighter jets" is an oxymoron. F-16s are fighter jets not bombers. Jordan doesn't have any strategic bombers so they make do with F-16s. (In contrast, the USAF sent a B-1 strategic bomber to circle Kobane, since the B-1 has much more endurance and much more room for bombs.) F-16s can carry air-to-surface bombs and missiles but in order to kill 7000 with 56 sorties would require incredibly good luck, like hitting jam-packed apartments full of militants with each and every missile.

(To be fair, there's also the element of the SAA's strong antiaircraft defenses in case Assad is crazy enough to try to shoot down your planes, so if you're going to send jets over Assad without his permission, you probably want to send fast jet fighters that have some chance of wiggling way from the SAA's defenses. Remember the first night of Coalition strikes in Syria, Obama sent a bunch of jammers and such in with the jets in Syria, and that a LOT of the strikes were actually with Tomahawk cruise missiles.)

Second, if OP was right that Jordan "carpet bombed" targets, you'd think there'd be more reporting of all the civilian casualties. Instead we get people like Mosul Eye saying the strikes were accurate.

Third, every other paper contradicts "Christian Times." Including the first newspaper that OP cited (the Israeli one). Everyone EXCEPT for "Christian Times" quoted the Jordanian general as saying the entire Coalition, since the start of bombing (last September), killed an estimated 7000 Daesh. Not Jordan alone killing 7000 in 3 days.

The Guardian and LA Times have a long list of Pulitzer Prizes and stronger editorial staff than "Christian Times" apparently. Al Arabiya is in the heart of the Middle East, not too likely they would mistranslate anything.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...t-has-carried-out-56-air-strikes-against-isis "Jobour said more than 7,000 Isis militants had been killed since Jordan began participating in coalition air strikes."

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-jordan-islamic-state-targets-20150208-story.html "Coalition air strikes have killed 7,000 extremist “criminals” since the campaign began, and trimmed some 20% of the militants’ fighting ability, the Jordanian general said."

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...SIS-lost-20-of-its-military-capabilities.html "Jbour also said that the coalition’s air strikes have killed 7,000 members of the militant group."

OP made a false claim that Jordan "carpet bombed" and caused mass civilian casualties, among the 7000 dead in 3 days. When called out on that misinformation, he produced a link to an Israeli paper that said 7000 over 6 MONTHS--and by the entire Coalition, not just Jordan. OP then cited to a different paper which contradicts every other paper out there (presumably an editorial/reporting error on their part). Along the way he was his usual charming self.

The facts are the facts. I hate misinformation.

/mic drop

"facts are the facts" huh?


First of all I'd like examine your statement about F16 "Fighter jets cluster bombing" being some sort of "oxymoron" . F16s are very capable of cluster bombing. They are actually used as the all purpose fighter/bomber wing of the USAF (A roll played by the F/A18 in the Navy). F15s are pure fighters, but they usually will also have FLIR and are perfectly capable of dropping cluster munitions.

Here are come cases of F16 fighter jets cluster bombing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjMpUctfU4M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQsujWVD9s4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScmfbOwRreU
http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g34952-i21001840-Fort_Benning_Georgia.html
http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article2839.html

The way you kill 7000 people with F16s is with Cluster Munitions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_munition
That is what Jordan is most likely using, if not that then just lots and lots of high explosive dumb bombs. An F16 has nearly an 8 ton payload, more on some of the later blocks, and plenty to drop massive bombs on cities.

I don't know how you could argue that Jordan isn't killing massive numbers of people, it wouldn't even be possible to tally that amount of kills. 7000 is roughly 15-20% of IS entire fighting strength of 30,000. I doubt IS even has that many Jihadis within range of Jordan's air force.


You can drop your mike and pretend you won an argument, you didn't. Sorry. Jordan is either lying, or indiscriminantly bombing Syria and Iraq.


I would love to hear your theory on how Jordan located, killed, and counted thousands of Islamic State Jihadis without bombing in a matter of 3 days. How many times does it take for us to drone strike one terrorist? I saw one guy took dozens of strikes killing dozens of people! That's for just one guy, now Jordan says they took out 7,000 in 3 days? How do you kill 7,000 militants in 3 days with only air strikes? I doubt even the USMC 1st Marines would top that kind of kill daily kill count in Falluja in 2004 .

 

[Ns1]

You can drop your mike and pretend you won an argument, you didn't. Sorry. Jordan is either lying, or indiscriminantly bombing Syria and Iraq.

or your 1 and only source had a typo?

 

[oobydoobydoo]

or your 1 and only source had a typo?

Even without the typo, it's thousands of people killed in days. Even if that's the entire coalition, it's pretty extravagant to kill those kinds of numbers of people and it just plain can't be done with precision munitions. Please explain to me how you kill thousands more militants than the US has killed in the last 10 years with drone strikes, and they did it in days.I would love to hear your explanation because I don't think IS even presents that many targets, not even close.

 

[blastingcap]

Some person--and I use the term loosely--literally claimed Jordan was carpet bombing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_bombing) and now is trying to rewrite history as if he wrote "cluster bombing" instead.

Notwithstanding how there have been no reports of Jordanian cluster bombing (which is frowned upon in part due to the possibility of civilian deaths stemming from unexploded ordnance).

Mosul Eye is on the ground in Mosul and reported accurate airstrikes. He didn't report on cluster bombs being used. Does that sound like Jordanian "carpet bombing" like what a certain person accused Jordan of? But what does Mosul Eye know, he's only an eyewitness living in Mosul, not a five-star Armchair General like OP.

OP would have you believe he knows better than Jordan itself. Who cares if a Jordanian general was quoted by The Guardian, The LA Times, Al Arabiya, and every other newspaper not named "Christian Times" as saying that the entire Coalition killed 7000 militants in 6 months, and not 7000 in 3 days by Jordan alone?

He's only a Jordanian general, not a five-star Armchair General like OP.

OP, keep trying to convince others that the Coalition is indiscriminately bombing civilians. We all believe you. Keep fighting the good fight, Armchair General.

"facts are the facts" huh?


First of all I'd like examine your statement about F16 "Fighter jets cluster bombing" being some sort of "oxymoron" (not sure you know what that word means...). F16s are very capable of cluster bombing. They are actually used as the all purpose fighter/bomber wing of the USAF (A roll played by the F/A18 in the Navy). F15s are pure fighters, but they usually will also have FLIR and are perfectly capable of dropping cluster munitions.

Here are come cases of F16 fighter jets cluster bombing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjMpUctfU4M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQsujWVD9s4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScmfbOwRreU
http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g34952-i21001840-Fort_Benning_Georgia.html
http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article2839.html

The way you kill 7000 people with F16s is with Cluster Munitions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_munition
That is what Jordan is most likely using, if not that then just lots and lots of high explosive dumb bombs. An F16 has nearly an 8 ton payload, more on some of the later blocks, and plenty to drop massive bombs on cities.

I don't know how you could argue that Jordan isn't killing massive numbers of people, it wouldn't even be possible to tally that amount of kills. 7000 is roughly 15-20% of IS entire fighting strength of 30,000. I doubt IS even has that many Jihadis within range of Jordan's air force.


You can drop your mike and pretend you won an argument, you didn't. Sorry. Jordan is either lying, or indiscriminantly bombing Syria and Iraq.