20,000 Iraqis Protest: 'No to America, No to Saddam'

burek

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Feb 19, 2002
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Protests Greet U.S.-Led Talks on Iraq
Tue April 15, 2003 09:19 AM ET


By Adrian Croft
TALLIL AIRBASE, Iraq (Reuters) - The United States opened the next phase in reshaping Iraq on Tuesday, gathering fractious political groups to discuss a future government, but boycotts, delays and protests pointed to the hard road ahead.

Participants were flown to a makeshift U.S. air base beside the remains of the ancient Mesopotamian city of Ur in southern Iraq and met in a big white marquee pitched next to a stepped ziggurat temple.

But in nearby Nassiriya, thousands of Iraqis protested that they did not need American help now Saddam Hussein had gone.

"No to America, No to Saddam," chanted Iraqis from the Shia Muslim majority long oppressed by Saddam, who is from the rival Sunni sect. Arabic television networks said up to 20,000 people marched.

At talks that began after a delay, skepticism ran deep among groups united by little more than joy at Saddam's fall and unease at getting too close to Washington.

Even Iraqi National Congress leader Ahmad Chalabi, eager not to be seen as a stooge of the Americans who back him, opted to stay away and send a representative instead.

The main exiled Shi'ite group decided not to come at all.

"We cannot be part of a process which is under an American general," said a spokesman for the Iran-based Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq, SCIRI.

Retired U.S. general Jay Garner is to head the Pentagon's Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance (ORHA) until Iraqis take over, probably in six months to a year.

The U.S. military command under General Tommy Franks looks set to oversee Iraq for longer.

British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, visiting Qatar, sought to reassure Iraqis that no government would be imposed.

"This is not an American or British operation but one we have sponsored to get things going," he said.

FACTIONS

U.S. officials want Iraqis to form their own decision-making structure ahead of elections, but they said on Tuesday the various leaders would just get acquainted.

Scant news seeped out of the talks.

Establishing a stable government is a daunting task in a divided and now leaderless country. Exiles claim a say, as do those who lived for decades under Saddam's iron rule.

Tribal, ethnic and religious leaders, particularly Shias, have loyal followings.

Stopping the country fragmenting into Kurdish, Shia and Sunni zones will be a tough struggle -- but one that Iraq's neighbors, fearing a reaction among their own minorities, insist on.

The whole process of building peace faces the same dilemma as war did: should the United Nations play a major or minor role, or should the United States call the tune.

The United Nations, promised some sort of role by Washington under pressure from Britain, was attending as an observer.

Britain's Straw said a bigger U.N. role hung on France and Russia now putting aside opposition to the war and cooperating.

"It is the responsibility of all members of the Security Council, but particularly those with vetoes, not to play games but to recognize this new reality and to move forward," he said.

After the United States toppled the Taliban in Afghanistan, the United Nations oversaw the selection of a government and the administration of the country.

ROLE FOR MEMBERS OF FALLEN LEADERSHIP?

About 60 Iraqis -- radical and mainstream Shi'ite and Sunni Muslims, Kurds and supporters of the monarchy axed in 1958 -- were expected to attend the meeting 235 miles southeast of Baghdad.

A spokesman for Chalabi told BBC radio leaders of the Iraqi opposition planned to hold their own meeting in Baghdad soon.

"Iraqis must rule Iraq. We don't need either an American general or a U.N. bureaucrat in charge," said Zaab Sethna.

Garner said ahead of the talks that every day counted and the power vacuum had to be filled. In a country whose former ruling Baath Party controlled everything for decades, coping without its members will be barely possible.

Saddam's police are already back on the streets to help quell days of looting and violence. "The use of the former regime's police ... puts them in the position of sort of starting de-Nazification by rehiring the Gestapo," military analyst Dan Plesch told CNN television.

But Britain's top ORHA official said they were small fry.

"We've been successful in taking the head off the regime, in taking off the top layer," Brigadier General Tim Cross told BBC radio. "Most of the other people who are trying to rebuild their lives will put aside the Baathist regime with great pleasure."

Outside the air base, a few tribal leaders asked to join the talks but were kept outside the barbed wire cordon.

"We need this meeting because we need freedom from Saddam Hussein and we need a new government for Iraq," said one of them, Sheikh Jabar Alowayed.

Story
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
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Arabic television networks said up to 20,000 people marched.



so really, that means 200 people marched?
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
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I wouldn't take this as a slight towards America or Britain. These people have been waiting a very long time for freedom and now that they have a chance, they're making sure it's right. Just as long as they realize some military oversight will be needed in the immediate days ahead. Certainly in the long run this would not be the case.

Prickly beginnings, but still a positive one.
 

yowolabi

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2001
4,183
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Originally posted by: Nitemare
Arabic television networks said up to 20,000 people marched.



so really, that means 200 people marched?

Ahh, the numbers game. But when some claimed that there were far fewer people at the toppling of Saddam's statue than represented on American news, they were just insane conspiracy theorists...

Look at the video. Can't tell exactly how many were there, but it was a heck of a lot. Also, the Shi'ites that boycotted is one of the largest, if not the largest sect in Iraq. They represent a lot more than hundreds of people. Any government that doesn't represent them won't be valid.

What I can't understand is why we insist on Jay Garner, who is not liked in that area because of his support for Israel. Certainly we could have found somebody who would be more palatable.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
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Originally posted by: flavio
Iraqis protesting.

They sure are enjoying this "liberation".

Now that we have secured their right yes they are, under Saddam the punishment would have been torture and death, if you were lucky.

Perhaps if those that were protesting had sent a representative they would have felt differently, instead they ASSumed they knew what the meeting was all about, they were invited but chose not to partake, their loss, they were given a chance to have their concerns addressed legitimately as well as an opportunity to have their say as far as local leadership.

What was the point of the protestors anyway? They want self rule, has the US suggested anything else?
 

bjc112

Lifer
Dec 23, 2000
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Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: flavio
Iraqis protesting.

They sure are enjoying this "liberation".

Now that we have secured their right yes they are, under Saddam the punishment would have been torture and death, if you were lucky.

Perhaps if those that were protesting had sent a representative they would have felt differently, instead they ASSumed they knew what the meeting was all about, they were invited but chose not to partake, their loss, they were given a chance to have their concerns addressed legitimately as well as an opportunity to have their say as far as local leadership.

What was the point of the protestors anyway? They want self rule, has the US suggested anything else?


Alistar please dont even bother with this child...He is blind... ;)
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
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Originally posted by: bjc112
Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: flavio
Iraqis protesting.

They sure are enjoying this "liberation".

Now that we have secured their right yes they are, under Saddam the punishment would have been torture and death, if you were lucky.

Perhaps if those that were protesting had sent a representative they would have felt differently, instead they ASSumed they knew what the meeting was all about, they were invited but chose not to partake, their loss, they were given a chance to have their concerns addressed legitimately as well as an opportunity to have their say as far as local leadership.

What was the point of the protestors anyway? They want self rule, has the US suggested anything else?


Alistar please dont even bother with this child...He is blind... ;)

He's not blind, he's just in denial, a blind man can't see the writing on the wall, he sees it, he just denies it's existence.
 

bjc112

Lifer
Dec 23, 2000
11,460
0
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Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: bjc112
Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: flavio
Iraqis protesting.

They sure are enjoying this "liberation".

Now that we have secured their right yes they are, under Saddam the punishment would have been torture and death, if you were lucky.

Perhaps if those that were protesting had sent a representative they would have felt differently, instead they ASSumed they knew what the meeting was all about, they were invited but chose not to partake, their loss, they were given a chance to have their concerns addressed legitimately as well as an opportunity to have their say as far as local leadership.

What was the point of the protestors anyway? They want self rule, has the US suggested anything else?


Alistar please dont even bother with this child...He is blind... ;)

He's not blind, he's just in denial, a blind man can't see the writing on the wall, he sees it, he just denies it's existence.


Whoops, my mistake...

heheh...

I have been seeing a lot of denial lately.. .

:D

I think George is loving it. I am at least.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
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I doubt few things have brought him greater pleasure in office than what he saw in Baghdad, people cheering our arrival and praising and thanking him....
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: bjc112
Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: flavio
Iraqis protesting.

They sure are enjoying this "liberation".

Now that we have secured their right yes they are, under Saddam the punishment would have been torture and death, if you were lucky.

Perhaps if those that were protesting had sent a representative they would have felt differently, instead they ASSumed they knew what the meeting was all about, they were invited but chose not to partake, their loss, they were given a chance to have their concerns addressed legitimately as well as an opportunity to have their say as far as local leadership.

What was the point of the protestors anyway? They want self rule, has the US suggested anything else?


Alistar please dont even bother with this child...He is blind... ;)

He's not blind, he's just in denial, a blind man can't see the writing on the wall, he sees it, he just denies it's existence.

How's that work? Sort of like you seeing the writing on the sign in the picture I posted, but then denying it means anything? Or do you refuse to look at in the first place in case it doesn't agree witht the crap you try to make yourself belief?

Tell me how this works. There's writing on a sign there, but somehow you guys are able to make a fantasy land where Iraqis prtesting are actually really happy and loving "liberated: people. It's good work you do.

 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: flavio
Iraqis protesting.

They sure are enjoying this "liberation".

Now that we have secured their right yes they are, under Saddam the punishment would have been torture and death, if you were lucky.

Perhaps if those that were protesting had sent a representative they would have felt differently, instead they ASSumed they knew what the meeting was all about, they were invited but chose not to partake, their loss, they were given a chance to have their concerns addressed legitimately as well as an opportunity to have their say as far as local leadership.

What was the point of the protestors anyway? They want self rule, has the US suggested anything else?


There is my response for the second time, guessed you missed it the first time through...
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
1
76
Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: flavio
Iraqis protesting.

They sure are enjoying this "liberation".

Now that we have secured their right yes they are, under Saddam the punishment would have been torture and death, if you were lucky.

Perhaps if those that were protesting had sent a representative they would have felt differently, instead they ASSumed they knew what the meeting was all about, they were invited but chose not to partake, their loss, they were given a chance to have their concerns addressed legitimately as well as an opportunity to have their say as far as local leadership.

What was the point of the protestors anyway? They want self rule, has the US suggested anything else?


There is my response for the second time, guessed you missed it the first time through...

So, you would like to dismiss these protestors right? I got it it the first time.....weak.

 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
No I did not dismiss them, they dismissed themselves from the very meeting that would have given them what they are protesting about, a say in their govt. I said it was their loss.

I think it's great they are enjoying the freedom we gave them, but one guy hardly makes that a nationwide sentiment, care to see 100's of pics of Iraqi's thanking Bush? What would that prove?
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
1
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Originally posted by: Alistar7
No I did not dismiss them, they dismissed themselves from the very meeting that would have given them what they are protesting about, a say in their govt. I said it was their loss.

I think it's great they are enjoying the freedom we gave them, but one guy hardly makes that a nationwide sentiment, care to see 100's of pics of Iraqi's thanking Bush? What would that prove?

One guy?

Try 1200 here and more in Baghdad here.

It sure look like you'd like to dimiss all the protestors, while you sure focused on some of those cheering a week ago.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
Originally posted by: Alistar7
No I did not dismiss them, they dismissed themselves from the very meeting that would have given them what they are protesting about, a say in their govt. I said it was their loss.

I think it's great they are enjoying the freedom we gave them, but one guy hardly makes that a nationwide sentiment, care to see 100's of pics of Iraqi's thanking Bush? What would that prove?

Why are they protesting? because they want self rule, show me where the US has suggested anything else. The fact of the matter is they were given a chance to participate in meetings that would have given them what they are asking for. Instead of taking advantage of this, they protested based on the exact opposite assumption, that they would have NO say.

That was their choice, they have right to not be willingly part of the process as they have chosen, but it seems rather moronic to protest for what was offered and refused.....

We want self rule, fine come to this meeting and you will have an equal say, no, we would rather sit and protest the people offering us exaclty what we are asking for than actually taking the steps OFFERED that would make this happen, dumbasses...
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,424
2
0
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Alistar7
No I did not dismiss them, they dismissed themselves from the very meeting that would have given them what they are protesting about, a say in their govt. I said it was their loss.

I think it's great they are enjoying the freedom we gave them, but one guy hardly makes that a nationwide sentiment, care to see 100's of pics of Iraqi's thanking Bush? What would that prove?

One guy?

Try 1200 here and more in Baghdad here.

It sure look like you'd like to dimiss all the protestors, while you sure focused on some of those cheering a week ago.
I hope you didn't over look this in the first article:
However, after the Marines were turned back by the morning protest, two men who claimed to be Abbas representatives came to the makeshift military headquarters in Kut and said they weren't in control of the protesters and they had nothing against the American presence, Malone said.
I also seem to recall that some forces were headed towards a mosque perhaps a week ago and were stopped by a large group. It turns out it was just a misunderstanding then also. These people have a big mistrust of the US forces being there, perhaps somewhat warranted given the circumstances, but if we can continue to show them that we want them on the road to self-governance, these sorts of things will hopefully diminish.
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
1
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Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: Alistar7
No I did not dismiss them, they dismissed themselves from the very meeting that would have given them what they are protesting about, a say in their govt. I said it was their loss.

I think it's great they are enjoying the freedom we gave them, but one guy hardly makes that a nationwide sentiment, care to see 100's of pics of Iraqi's thanking Bush? What would that prove?

Why are they protesting? because they want self rule, show me where the US has suggested anything else. The fact of the matter is they were given a chance to participate in meetings that would have given them what they are asking for. Instead of taking advantage of this, they protested based on the exact opposite assumption, that they would have NO say.

That was their choice, they have right to not be willingly part of the process as they have chosen, but it seems rather moronic to protest for what was offered and refused.....

We want self rule, fine come to this meeting and you will have an equal say, no, we would rather sit and protest the people offering us exaclty what we are asking for than actually taking the steps OFFERED that would make this happen, dumbasses...

So the Iraqis cheering last week were smart and the ones protesting this week are dumbasses? I see, when they support what YOU want it has a direct affect on their intelligence. Doesn't matter what they want.

 

TheNinja

Lifer
Jan 22, 2003
12,207
1
0
Those ungrateful bastards. Last time we left too early remember what happened? We'll leave when things are under control. If we leave now do they really think a government made of the people, for the people will automatically create itself? No, if we leave now it will be survival of the fittest. I'm so tired of everyone protesting everything and the media blowing everything out of proportion (and yes I think the celebration and the protests in Iraq have both been blown out of proportion). Just let the coalition finish the job without thinking that you know better than them. They got us this far, shut up and let them finish the job (applies to Iraqis and US protestors).
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
1
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Originally posted by: Staley8
Those ungrateful bastards. Last time we left too early remember what happened? We'll leave when things are under control. If we leave now do they really think a government made of the people, for the people will automatically create itself? No, if we leave now it will be survival of the fittest. I'm so tired of everyone protesting everything and the media blowing everything out of proportion (and yes I think the celebration and the protests in Iraq have both been blown out of proportion). Just let the coalition finish the job without thinking that you know better than them. They got us this far, shut up and let them finish the job (applies to Iraqis and US protestors).

They really can't be called "ungrateful" when they hadn't asked for help can they?

 

bjc112

Lifer
Dec 23, 2000
11,460
0
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No they are not "ungrateful" flavio, they are now overwhelmed by their freedom, there is nothing wrong with them protesting..

I actually believe that Iraqi people are extremely grateful, their words and actions have showed for this... (other than your 1200) which can be compared to thousands upon thousands...

The riding of the statue last week ( yes that was last week ) seems to also speak for its self... And if you believe because it happened last week the suddenly "hate" the U.S. you have truly lost your poor little mind...

But the majority out weighs the 1200 that you think speak for the country...

:cool:

^
those glasses are worn by some blind people too...

;)

 

bjc112

Lifer
Dec 23, 2000
11,460
0
76
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Staley8
Those ungrateful bastards. Last time we left too early remember what happened? We'll leave when things are under control. If we leave now do they really think a government made of the people, for the people will automatically create itself? No, if we leave now it will be survival of the fittest. I'm so tired of everyone protesting everything and the media blowing everything out of proportion (and yes I think the celebration and the protests in Iraq have both been blown out of proportion). Just let the coalition finish the job without thinking that you know better than them. They got us this far, shut up and let them finish the job (applies to Iraqis and US protestors).

They really can't be called "ungrateful" when they hadn't asked for help can they?

ANd i would say most "probably" i cannot back that up, but, probably wanted to be helped but feared for their life if they stood up against the regime...
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
1
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Originally posted by: bjc112
No they are not "ungrateful" flavio, they are now overwhelmed by their freedom, there is nothing wrong with them protesting..

I actually believe that Iraqi people are extremely grateful, their words and actions have showed for this... (other than your 1200) which can be compared to thousands upon thousands...

The riding of the statue last week ( yes that was last week ) seems to also speak for its self... And if you believe because it happened last week the suddenly "hate" the U.S. you have truly lost your poor little mind...

But the majority out weighs the 1200 that you think speak for the country...

:cool:

^
those glasses are worn by some blind people too...

;)

Where is this "majority" that truly speak for the country? Go ahead, is there anything useful that you can add here at all? How is it that you know what the majority of Iraqis want?