2 @ Rutgers Charged For Secret Sex Tape Of Another Student, Who Comitted Suicide

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Flipped Gazelle

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2004
6,666
3
81
Have you ever thought that people become psychologically unhealthy because they are made to feel inferior or outcast because of who they are?

This happens with a lot of people, for many different reasons. Your job is to overcome this. Most people do, to varying degrees.

Please don't misunderstand me - I feel a great deal of sympathy for the victim.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
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you're crazy. for arguments sake, what does a crime have to do with it? if it pushes someone to suicide, whats the difference? if you claim that they are responsible for his death because he killed himself, why does it matter how they got to that point? its ridiculous that we even have to argue this. the kill who killed himself made that decision on his own. he didn't have to do it. therefore, you can't blame anyone else for that decision.

and how can you say there is no line? what is the most insignificant thing that you can do to a person that would warrant blame for their suicide...you are justifying suicide regardless, which is insane...

Commit a crime. That woud be the line, so my original statement was wrong.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
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Of course they are. If they were wired correctly they wouldn't be gay. That's a fact you can take to the bank. Since that's out of the way, we can discuss whether it matters or not. I don't think it matters. You?

You can't say "gay people are defective because they are not wired correctly". That just a tautology.
 

Platypus

Lifer
Apr 26, 2001
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321
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This happens with a lot of people, for many different reasons. Your job is to overcome this. Most people do, to varying degrees.

Please don't misunderstand me - I feel a great deal of sympathy for the victim.

I don't think I can accurately explain the kind of emotional toll that this shit takes on a person in words. I understand what you were saying but my comments were mainly to the other opinions in the thread. I just think blatantly calling someone 'obviously defective' is the kind of mentality and attitude that causes people to feel like their only escape is death.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
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courts are pretty clear that suicide can't be blamed on other people... regardless of what you personal feelings on the matter might be, opening up suicide as grounds for charging someone else for manslaughter brings up a lot of troubling grey areas.

and yeah, I'd regard gay as defective too, biologically. as humans though, no.

edit: although, for homosexuality to persist in nature (both in man and animals) after all this time.. there may be some other benefit homosexuality must give, either homosexuality itself or its root cause. otherwise it would make more sense that homosexuality would be rooted out by now, I think.

Yeah, I would think. Can you point to a single respected biologist that considers homosexuality a defect?

Edit: And if it's a defect, why is it not treated in western medicine?
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,960
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I just think blatantly calling someone 'obviously defective' is the kind of mentality and attitude that causes people to feel like their only escape is death.

You're reading more into it than is there. I'm obviously defective. My eyesight sucks, the bones in my neck are degenerated, and I'm slightly slew footed. I imagine almost everybody in this thread is defective in some form or another. It's an accurate word for the situation. This ties in with the retarded thread. Changing the words doesn't change the facts, or the condition. It can be prettied up by changing the words, but that only lasts a short while. Once people figure out what you're really talking about, the new words carry the same meaning as the old words which worked just as well in the first place.
 

Platypus

Lifer
Apr 26, 2001
31,046
321
136
You're reading more into it than is there. I'm obviously defective. My eyesight sucks, the bones in my neck are degenerated, and I'm slightly slew footed. I imagine almost everybody in this thread is defective in some form or another. It's an accurate word for the situation. This ties in with the retarded thread. Changing the words doesn't change the facts, or the condition. It can be prettied up by changing the words, but that only lasts a short while. Once people figure out what you're really talking about, the new words carry the same meaning as the old words which worked just as well in the first place.

and I think you're comparing apples to watermelons.
 

slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,679
119
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Why would you shove me for no reason? I have never walked up to someone in my life and just shoved them.

maybe its because you're gay. maybe because I don't like the shoes you are wearing. who cares? should I be blamed for you death if you off yourself?
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,138
12,457
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You can't say "gay people are defective because they are not wired correctly". That just a tautology.

Mayhaps...but it's true none the less.

Gay people and the whole, "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body" (and vice-versa for lesbians) are "wired incorrectly." There is obviously something wrong, whether it's a mental deficiency...or a biological accident, I certainly don't know...but it should be glaringly obvious that they are "defective" in that respect.

MOST of the gay folks I've known over the years have been pretty good people, although, at the same time, most were also "overly flamboyant" in their own ways...and quite a few were fucked up in other ways...personality issues, social anxiety issues, etc.

Of course, there were also the gay folks who I'd have never guessed they were "that way." Straight as can be in appearance and behavior, no outwardly visible clues as to their "orientation," and they didn't wear teh pink...:p


NOTE: I'm not a gay hater...I don't think they should be put to death...:rolleyes: nor locked in mental hospitals for their "defects," but at the same time, I'm not particularly tolerant either. What consenting adults do in the privacy of their homes is none of my business, but I don't have to think that it's "right."
 

slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,679
119
106
Mayhaps...but it's true none the less.

Gay people and the whole, "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body" (and vice-versa for lesbians) are "wired incorrectly." There is obviously something wrong, whether it's a mental deficiency...or a biological accident, I certainly don't know...but it should be glaringly obvious that they are "defective" in that respect.

MOST of the gay folks I've known over the years have been pretty good people, although, at the same time, most were also "overly flamboyant" in their own ways...and quite a few were fucked up in other ways...personality issues, social anxiety issues, etc.

Of course, there were also the gay folks who I'd have never guessed they were "that way." Straight as can be in appearance and behavior, no outwardly visible clues as to their "orientation," and they didn't wear teh pink...:p


NOTE: I'm not a gay hater...I don't think they should be put to death...:rolleyes: nor locked in mental hospitals for their "defects," but at the same time, I'm not particularly tolerant either. What consenting adults do in the privacy of their homes is none of my business, but I don't have to think that it's "right."

/discussion
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
maybe its because you're gay. maybe because I don't like the shoes you are wearing. who cares? should I be blamed for you death if you off yourself?

So I'm at the edge of suicide, and you walk up to me and assault me because you don't like the shoes I was wearing? Yes, you should be charged with manslaughter if I kill myself.
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,907
16,174
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Illicit video taping is a crime, so is releasing it on the internet. This caused a person to commit suicide. Sounds like involuntary manslaughter case to me. Now proving it in court would be hard.
 

slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,679
119
106
So I'm at the edge of suicide, and you walked up to me and assault me because you don't like the shoes I was wearing? Yes, you should be charged with manslaughter if I kill myself.

I hope you're just trolling. I'll assume you are and stop bothering with reason

Illicit video taping is a crime, so is releasing it on the internet. This caused a person to commit suicide. Sounds like involuntary manslaughter case to me. Now proving it in court would be hard.

How is it manslaugther if the crime and suicide are completely seperated, not directly connected. the suicide was a seperate decision and didn't have to happen...
 

M0oG0oGaiPan

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2000
7,858
2
0
digitalgamedeals.com
I hope you're just trolling. I'll assume you are and stop bothering with reason



How is it manslaugther if the crime and suicide are completely seperated, not directly connected. the suicide was a seperate decision and didn't have to happen...

whoa dude, what do you have against gays and naggers? why are you bashing everyone?
 

Taejin

Moderator<br>Love & Relationships
Aug 29, 2004
3,270
0
0
Yeah, I would think. Can you point to a single respected biologist that considers homosexuality a defect?

Edit: And if it's a defect, why is it not treated in western medicine?

in terms of reproduction, which ostensibly drives all of nature, homosexuality would be a pretty strong defect, since it reduces the chances of genes being passed along, no?

Do I need a respected biologist to tell me this? Also, I don't know how many professors/scientists you know, but they would definitely not go on the record for a politically charged issue like this...

if I recall correctly, western medicine tries to correct things that interfere with quality of life, no? although its arguable that gay people have a poorer quality of life in today's society (acceptance, etc), one would hope that humans will become enlightened enough not to ostracize others simply on the basis of sexual orientation.

being gay doesn't directly interfere with quality of life, it doesn't directly lead to having trouble functioning mentally, and it certainly won't kill you.

finally, western medicine isn't advanced enough to turn someone gay or vice versa. it's obvious that the human sexual identity is much more complex than just a pill and prescription, and if western medicine could change teh gay, then I suspect one might decide to do so.

although, a future where you could change your sexual orientation on will (and a little pill) does sound somewhat intriguing.
 
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Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,506
0
76
for the idiots claiming the kids are responsible for the death....

How do you draw the line for being responsible? If you idiots kill yourselves because I called you idiots, is it my fault? What is enough reason for someone to commit suicide? isn't suicide a crime also? what if you breakup with your girlfriend/boyfriend and they kill themself? stop being fucking retarded

the crime of filming the kid is the same no matter if the other kid kills himself or not. how can you have different punishments for the same crime when the result is 100% the choice of the victim?


There is a limit to free speech.

Obviously calling someone an idiot, braking up with ur gf, or such dont fall over, but if you are responsible for humiliating a person to the level of an entire country that found out about this, that can hurt the guy.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
I hope you're just trolling. I'll assume you are and stop bothering with reason

Really, what you did was much more of a troll. We're talking about a kid that was humiliated in front of his peers and had his homosexuality outed, something that can be extremely distressing. And you're talking about hypothetical situations where someone commits suicide because they are shoved.

My answer was sincere; strictly speaking, a crime that results in a death should have a manslaughter charge attached to it. The fact that the hypothetical situation you presented was ridiculous is your problem, not mine.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,907
16,174
126
How is it manslaugther if the crime and suicide are completely seperated, not directly connected. the suicide was a seperate decision and didn't have to happen...

Causality is considered in these kind of cases.
 

Platypus

Lifer
Apr 26, 2001
31,046
321
136
I hope you're just trolling. I'll assume you are and stop bothering with reason


The argument he's presenting is ridiculous and not at all like what happened in the story. This kid was probably still way deep in the closet, likely none of his friends or family knew. All of the sudden, here's this kid having sex with a man for all the world to see on the Internet.. is that how you'd want your friends and family to find out? This kid probably thought his only escape from this kind of shame was death. He was wrong of course, but that doesn't change his mentality.

That said, I don't think there's any legal standard to charge them with manslaughter or murder.. the kid acted on his own will at the end of the day. He wouldn't have done so, however, if not for the actions of the two people in the story. That is really the point here. Technically, they're not responsible for his death directly but indirectly you better believe they are the cause.

Comparing this to shoving someone and having that person kill themselves is an absurd argument, saying that these two kids aren't responsible for putting him in a situation where he felt like death was the answer lacks reason in my opinion.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
in terms of reproduction, which ostensibly drives all of nature, homosexuality would be a pretty strong defect, since it reduces the chances of genes being passed along, no?

Do I need a respected biologist to tell me this? Also, I don't know how many professors/scientists you know, but they would definitely not go on the record for a politically charged issue like this...

Except for the fact that many homosexuals desire-to-have, and raise children through different methods (adoptions, surrogates, etc.). An evolutionary biologist could have a very good explanation for the existence of homosexuality that doesn't involve any kind of defect.