2 monitors?

[pengin]

So, I have an extra 17" CRT Monitor lying around and I want to hook that up to my computer. How would I go about doing this? Would I need to purchase a new video card and put that into my PCI slot? or do I just replace my current video card with one that supports two monitors? If I buy a new video card, which ones do you suggest? Do they have to be from the same company? Thanks to whoever replies.
Here are my current specs:
P3 600mhz
Diamond Viper 9700 (Based on Nvidia TnT2 32 mb)
Windows 2000 (might upgrade to XP, will that be a problem?)
Current Monitor: View Sonic E790 (19")
Monitor I want to Connect: View Sonic 17GS (17")
I mainly use this computer for internet, icq, msn, winamp, microsoft office. As you can see from my video cards, I don't play games (Games aren't a big deal to me). I do a bit of photoshop and 3DsMax. However, preformance isn't a big deal to me. As long as the video card is stable, reliable and is able to do what I want. I am planning to keep this upgrade as low cost as possible, but still want an ok video card? (Ok is like geforce 2 mx400)

...
derek

 

[Anubis]

yes you can do 2 moniters. but yull need a PCI based vid card unless you want to buy an newer AGP card that has 2 outputs.
Should work fine in either Win 2K or Win XP
i use Win 2K and its fine for me

 

[AnAndAustin]

With a TNT2 you really should consider a Rad7500, Rad9000 or GF4MX which will all cost about $60 and have a lot of enhancements over TNT2 and not just in gaming. The Rad7500 is the only one you'd want to double check has 2 RAMDACs for dual display as this is standard for both Rad9000 and GF4MX ... so long as they have the ports (DVI can be converted to CRT very cheaply) they have dual display ability. You could just stick in a PCI card (best not to use like with like), but I'd suggest you get a new card or possibly look for a good deal on a 2nd hand one, Matrox are another alternative though severely lack gaming abilities they have had dual display for quite a while.

 

[pengin]

Hmmm ok. Thanks for the replys. I'm probably going to go with buying a new AGP card that supports 2 monitors. My AGP slot is 2x. Will that be a major problem with the newer cards? Also, any thoughts on which company is better for dual monitors? Is the Ati Hydravision any better than the Nvida nView Multi-Desktop Technology? What specific video card would you recommend I purchase? Im looking at the Radeon 7500 & the VE right now.

...
derek

 

[AnAndAustin]

If your mobo only has AGP2x it is almost certainly AGP1.0 spec as opposed to the AGP4x available on the AGP2.0 spec which all mobos have had for some time now. This does present a problem although Rad7000 (ie RadVE), Rad7500 and Rad9000 are known to be gentle cards which should present no problems. You could consider a PCI solution esp since gaming is not important but they are over-priced. Perhaps an older card like the Matrox G___ would be wise.

As for dual monitors, Matrox were leaders for a good while, ATI caught them up and now nVidia have too with their GF4 cards ... it is now very even. If you are converting a DVI to a CRT (many cards have CRT+DVI+TVout ports) you may be limited in the max res (1024x768 or 1280x960 IIRC) so you may be better served by true dual CRT ports if you plan to use higher res.

Rad7500 or Rad9000 are the ones I'd pers rec although Rad7000 (RadVE) should be fine too.

 

[pengin]

I looked into Matrox and they seem to be very very EXPENSIVE!!! Their cards look very good, however I think that it might be out of my price range.
I will probably end up getting the Radeon VE.
However, I was just wondering if this would work: I get a TNT2 PCI version and install that. And then I would have 2 video cards w/ 2 CRT out. Would I be able to do Dual-monitor with that?
Or would i just be better off w/ getting the Radeon VE and then converting one the DVI to CRT?

...
derek

 

[Peter]

Note that in DVI-to-VGA adapters, no signal conversion is going on. The DVI connector has both the "normal" VGA signal and the digital DVI signal - and only the latter has implicit resolution limits. Using a VGA+DVI card, connecting a 2nd CRT through a DVI-VGA adapter, is no different to using a VGA+VGA card ... except for that the former offers you an upgrade path to a DVI panel as soon as one of your CRTs throws the towel.

If you can, skip the PCI VGA. That would introduce a major system bandwidth hog.

Something simple like the PowerColor RV2LE card I'm using here (Radeon 7500LE, VGA+DVI+TVout) would certainly do, and so do most of the Radeon-9000 cards. These are fanless too, making for a quiet computer ... but as with previous Radeons, there are also ultra-low-end cards that do NOT have two outputs. Watch what you buy.

 

[Peter]

one final note, you better upgrade to Windows XP since W2K can't run independent resolutions on two monitors that both connect to the same graphics card (unless you use a Matrox card that circumvents this design flaw with a huge driver internal effort).

 

[pengin]

Originally posted by: Peter
Using a VGA+DVI card, connecting a 2nd CRT through a DVI-VGA adapter, is no different to using a VGA+VGA card ... except for that the former offers you an upgrade path to a DVI panel as soon as one of your CRTs throws the towel.

o really? hmm, i didn't know that. AnAndAustin posted that there is a max resolution limitation if i got a DVI to VGA converter? Also, I can't seem to find any VGA +VGA cards, or I can't find any VGA+VGA cards that are cheap.

If you can, skip the PCI VGA. That would introduce a major system bandwidth hog.

what do u mean when u say that it will introduce a major system bandwidth hog? will it just slow down my computer? How much of a hog is a hog?
like If i did get a PCI VGA card, and i decided to open up Trillian, would it take longer to load or what?

...
derek

 

[easystreet]

2 is cool....the longer you have 2 monitors the more ways you will think of to use em.......DVD,TV,Photoshop.........
I had a Radeon 7500 and switched to Matrox G550 which I like much better, but I don't game......except pinball......

 

[Peter]

Originally posted by: pengin

Originally posted by: Peter
Using a VGA+DVI card, connecting a 2nd CRT through a DVI-VGA adapter, is no different to using a VGA+VGA card ... except for that the former offers you an upgrade path to a DVI panel as soon as one of your CRTs throws the towel.

o really? hmm, i didn't know that. AnAndAustin posted that there is a max resolution limitation if i got a DVI to VGA converter? Also, I can't seem to find any VGA +VGA cards, or I can't find any VGA+VGA cards that are cheap.

Yes, really. DVI connectors on graphics cards (DVI-I connectors to be exact) carry both the actual DVI digital signal, and a plain normal VGA signal as well. It is that digital signal that has its frequency limits, which in turn is where the resolution limit comes from. If you're on the analog part, this DVI inherent limitation does not apply. (And if it's not a DVI-I connector but digital-only DVI-D, then your DVI-VGA adapter simply will not work at all.)

VGA+VGA cards used to be popular until recently, DVI+VGA took over. There are still some Radeon-7000, Matrox G450/550 and SiS 315 cards floating around that have it.

If you can, skip the PCI VGA. That would introduce a major system bandwidth hog.

This is because PCI is a long way to go, and if it's a VGA there, that's lots of data. The AGP bus attaches directly to the chipset core, while data heading for PCI have to travel over to the "south bridge" part of the chipset, through it and then out to PCI. This consumes lots of bandwidth on those busses, often messing up things like sound replay or hard disk performance.

regards, Peter

 

[AnAndAustin]

Thanks for clearing the max res limit of DVI up Peter. Just to clarify 100%, there are 2 types of DVI; DVI-I which is digital DVI and also carries an analogue signal which the DVI-to-CRT converter taps in to when you need to run a std CRT through it, and DVI-D which is digital only so will not work any CRT no matter the adapter. So running a DVI-to-CRT on DVI-I will mean there is no max res limit for the CRT, but for both DVI-I and DVI-D there will be a max res limit imposed on the LCD? Just wanted to be 100% sure on this in case someone asks me.

GF4 cards can be found with CRT+CRT+TVout if not VIVO too. Of course given the above CRT+DVI should be more than fine with a converter, just be sure it isn't DVI-D, I am very certain all GF4 cards use the necessary DVI-I and I believe most Radeons, certainly the newer ones do too. If you choose a CRT+DVI gfx card, the fact that it comes bundled with a DVI-to-CRT converter should ensure it uses DVI-I.

Adding a PCI gfx card will consume a lot of the PCI and North-to-South bandwidth as Peter says. If you have a demanding PCI card like a Creative Live/Audigy or RAID and also if you have a weaker PCI bus like on VIA (non-KT400) chipsets then this may cause probs too. You should never truly be aware of this, and I doubt it will slow you down by even 5% esp since you won't be using the PCI gfx card for gaming. If you do add a PCI gfx card then I'd advise you skip nVidia if your current AGP card is nVidia as there can be driver and resource sharing issues, the same goes for adding ATI AGP and ATI PCI so as a general rule don't mix like with like. I'd still suggest you get a new AGP gfx card which supports dual CRT (or CRT+DVI with a converter).

EDIT: Found a dual CRT gfx card, only 1 at Newegg out of all the GF4 and Radeon cards.

Newegg VGA EVGA GEFORCE4 MX440 64MB Dual VGA . RETAIL BOX $79.00

 

[Peter]

Now you got it. The digital signal path on DVI has a limit of 165 MHz pixel clock, taking you up to 1600x1200. Optionally (and rarely seen) DVI may be two-channel, feeding twin 165 MHz data streams into the display for 330 million pixels per second.

Of course there is SOME resolution limit to the analog signal too, but that's usually much further up than the 165 MHz of single channel DVI - somewhere in the 230 to 350 MHz range depending on what card you get (see under "RAMDAC bandwidth"), thus completely irrelevant in the target application we're talking about here. Some cards have different limits on the 1st and 2nd outputs, namely Matrox G400, all SiS dual head cards, and also Radeon 7500. You want to connect the larger monitor to the more capable channel then.

Got to bust the myth about PCI performance and VIA chipsets: Older VIA chipsets do not inherently have poor PCI performance. It's a register programming issue, screwed up or solved properly by your board's BIOS. It has ever been like that, and still is on KT400 (or rather the 8235 south bridge where the PCI bus originates). It's only that the newer the board, the more likely is that its BIOS engineers cared about PCI performance setup.

Whatever - even with excellently performing PCI bus, one does easily get annoying effects like scratchy or otherwise disrupted sound replay, even when doing as little as move a window around on a PCI VGA. I've seen it, on manier systems of all flavors, SiS, Intel, VIA, ALi, you name them. Avoid PCI VGA whenever you can.
One word about NVidia PCI VGA cards - they usually do not play well whenever there is an AGP VGA in the system too. Many people who were trying to upgrade from mainboard integrated graphics found out the hard way, and it's the same situation when you try to run an NVidia PCI VGA next to an AGP VGA, no matter who made the latter.

regards, Peter

 

[cliffa3]

i have a radeon ddr 64 meg card and i'm running 1600x1200 on a 19 inch viewsonic which i enjoy, but i'm thinking about picking up a 15 inch LCD w/a native res of 1024x768...what's the cheapest way to be able to run 1600 on my current monitor still and 1024 on the LCD?..i know the matrox cards do it...a guy here at work that does web design has it so he can see what it looks like on diff resolutions at the same time...but as posted above, that is expensive...this monitor takes analog input (LCD) i'm pretty sure. Can i do it w/a agp and a pci?..thanks for any help.