2.8c@3.2 229FSB have I forgot anyting?

[MaXThReAT]

Hey all, I?m just looking for a little advice here. I?m not really new to OC I?ve still got a lot to learn I think.

Anyway, I?ve got a 2.8c @ 3.2Ghz, FSB 229. It?s home is an IC7 ABIT board. I?ve got 4x256Mb Corsair PC3200 XMS 3200LLPT Ultra low latency chips. Sitting in the AGP slot we?ve got a GeForce 5700 Ultra GDDR2 475/906 @ 520/1.0Ghz. Win XP

A little history:
Before I started OC?ing the CPU I was toying with the automatic RAM timings.
In the BIOS you can set either Turbo, Street Racer or F1. When I had only 2x 256MB chips of the 3200LLPT I was able to run Street Racer with a OC CPU @ 3.0Mhz.

I just picked up 2 more identical 3200LLPT 256MB for a total of 1Gig. With the gig the system wouldn?t even post and I had to clear CMOS. So I?ve got it set at default (auto) right now. With that at default I clocked the CPU almost to 3.0. At 3.0 the system would get up to the window loading bar and lock or reset.

So I did a bit of research and found out about the CPU/DRAM ratio and AGP/PCI ratio. At this point I?m not sure what I?m doing or how I?m effecting my system, so I set the CPU/DRAM ratio to 5:4 The way I understand it, it lets your RAM stay up with you OC?ed CPU. Basically for every 5 CPU cycles you get 4 DRAM cycles. Right?? I also fixed or locked the AGP/PCI ratio 33/66.

So today I?m up to 3.2Ghz with CoreV. @ 1.41v. I only raised the CPU power because I was seeing the voltage drop below 1.36v @ 3.2Ghz while testing with Prime95, but I think it would be stable without it. My temps are fine so far, kind of hard to tell, I guess the ABIT IC7?s read about 10c too high. My temps from Sandra 2004 are 58c/idel and 70-75c under load so I?m guessing under load I?m at about 60c. I?ve got a Volcano 7+ on the CPU and air flowing through like a mother.

My goal it to reach a minimum of 3.4Mhz I would like to see 3.5 but I don?t want to put to much strain on the system.
Before I start moving to 3.2+..
What ells can I do that I haven?t found yet or don?t know about?
I know I can do more with the ram but I know very little about DRAM timing.
What is too high of a temp for an OC?ed 2.8C?
Anyone ells with a FX 5700 Ultra at thoughts speeds had to raise AGP Voltage yet?
Any other suggestions you?ve got to kick this puppy up would be great.
Thanks all

Sys specs:
Abit IC7 MoBo
Top of the line 350w Power supply-forgot the brand. (Something) COOL.
P4 2.8c@ 3.2 Core Voltage 1.4125 W/ Thermal-Take Volcano 7 @ idle 54c or 44c-abit
4x256=1.0Gig Corsair XMS PC3200LLPT-Ultra low Latency
2x Western-Digital 80Gb ATA
PNY FX 5700 Ultra DDR2 475/906 @ 520/1.0Ghz
Sony-DVD-RW & 56X CD-Rom
SoundBlaster Live 5.1 <-- I know, I need an Audigy2

 

[MaXThReAT]

Wow don't all help at once.

 

[charloscarlies]

So today I?m up to 3.2Ghz with CoreV. @ 1.41v. I only raised the CPU power because I was seeing the voltage drop below 1.36v @ 3.2Ghz while testing with Prime95, but I think it would be stable without it. My temps are fine so far, kind of hard to tell, I guess the ABIT IC7?s read about 10c too high. My temps from Sandra 2004 are 58c/idel and 70-75c under load so I?m guessing under load I?m at about 60c. I?ve got a Volcano 7+ on the CPU and air flowing through like a mother.

Sounds like you have a Prescott with those temps and that voltage. The default vcore for a Northwood (C model) is 1.55v I believe.

 

[jhites]

First, most would recommend that you run only 2X512Mb sticks of ram instead of 4X256Mb sticks for better overclocking potential. You will also reach a better overall performance if you can maintain a 1:1 cpu/ram ratio, assuming there is not a large timing variance compared. Using the 5:4 ratio at your current fsb is running your ram under spec at only DDR365. You did not mention but I would assume that you have set the timings for the ram to manual and set to (ie: 2-2-2-5). In order to get better performance for that ram using a 5:4 ratio you need to be at a minimum of 250fsb which puts your 2.8C @ 3.5Ghz.

Even for an IC7 Abit board those temps are high. For reference my IC7 under full load runs at 50-52C with motherboard at 25C and ambiant room temp at 21C. This is with default voltages running a 2.6C @ 3.2Ghz. You say that it is a 2.8C but those temps may reflect a 2.8E ??????

Your goal of 3.5 should not put to much strain on your system assuming you can maintain the low vcore that you are using currently. From the vcore you show of 1.4125v, it appears that you have one of the MO stepping cpu's since the vcore for a 2.8C is normally 1.525 vcore.

For comparison you can look at my 2.8C here. The temps are reading lower on mine but I have the 2.8C on a Asus P4C800-Dlx which reads temps on the low side by about 5-7C and using a SP94. Mine is also the MO stepping cpu.

Edit: Welcome to AT Forums

 

[MaXThReAT]

Thanks for the reply I'm going to bring it back down to 2.8 and see what my temp are at. I've got the case open, with the open side right against my desk. It's got maybe a cm between the desk and case.

At stock speed and voltage I idle at 55c and sys temp of 35c per Abit-EQ and Sandra.
In my Nvidia manager I've got an ambient temp of 42c, GPU 45c.
If the 10+ thing is right then I'm at 45c@ stock and @3.2
Under load @ 2.8 I?m running 71-72.0c
Under load @ 3.2 stock V. I?m running 73-75.0c Semi stable Prime95 one error 1/h.
Again if Abit boards report the CPU 10c higher I?m actually @63-65c under load @ 3.2
In my BIOS PC Health it shows 63c idle.


As for the Ram I haven?t changed the timing at all. Why the minimum of 250fsb?
I'm planning on getting 2 matched 1gig sticks for Doom3 soon. I got 2 matched 256 at first for the performance with thoughts. Only way to say dual channel without buying all new memory.

Anyway I not sure what the timing is currently. I know what the 2-2-2-5 stands for but it doesn?t correspond with each of my BIOS settings. Spec on the box is 2-3-2-6-T1, I'm pretty sure that's factory. In my BIOS I've got it set to By SPD right now.
CAS Latency: 2
Act to Precharge Dely:5
DRAM Ras# to CAS# Delay 3
DRAM RAS# Precharge2


I?ve never had the stock fan on this CPU. I went from a 2.4b up to the 2.8c. With the 2.4 I think my temps were near 45-50 idle. But that wasn?t with an 800+FSB. I got the Thermaltake and CPU at the same time.

Anyone know what the normal temps are one 2.8c with a 35c+ sys temp? From your reaction I'm guessing 40c/cpu and lower and good temps

I turned on the AC in my Apt and my systems dropped down to 50c idle or 40c in non-Abit land. It must be at least 75-80f in my Apt.

 

[jhites]

For your reference my ambiant room at 21C is about 70*F. By comparison my room to cpu temp is about plus 30C. IMHO your cpu temps are about 10C high for what your ambiant and system are reading. Take a look at the c/w ratings for the Volcano 7+ in comparison to some others and this might explain the 10C difference here.

As for the Ram I havn't changed the timing at all. Why the minimum of 250fsb?

I would suggest that you use the manual setting for your ram and set the timings to spec. If you use auto for your ram on that board, your timings will be higher than spec and could cause some stability issues. By design the Corsair LL ram does not perform well with relaxed timings and may be the reason for the no boot issue that you experienced.

The reason for the 250fsb as a minimum is with a 5:4 ratio is puts the ram running at DDR400 (250x5/4=200 or DDR400). Even with 4 sticks that ram should run 5:4 ratio using 250fsb and timings of a least 2-3-3-7 or better.

 

[myocardia]

You're gonna need at least 2.8v vdimm, to run with 4 sticks of ram and be stable.

edit: And you definitely need a better heatsink, along with air-conditioning.

 

[MaXThReAT]

Alright I'm kinda getting the CPU/DRAM timing. In order to reach the full DDR400 spec I would have to run the FSB at 250 because when the CPU/DRAM ratio was changed to 5:4 the DRAM falls below spec at 229 FSB. Okay, I didn't know the FSB DRAM and CPU effected eachother like that.

When you say set the Ram to spec you mean 2-3-2-6 on the box or on the screen set it to:
CAS Latency: 2
Act to Precharge Dely: 3
DRAM Ras# to CAS# Delay: 2
DRAM RAS# Precharge: 6
Because
I've got the ram set to BY SPD 2-5-3-2 right?? From above.
or are you talking about the settings below the game accelorator settings? The turbo, F1 thing.
I've got all thoughs set to auto right now.

 

[IkeEisenhower]

Originally posted by: jhites
The reason for the 250fsb as a minimum is with a 5:4 ratio is puts the ram running at DDR400 (250x5/4=200 or DDR400). Even with 4 sticks that ram should run 5:4 ratio using 250fsb and timings of a least 2-3-3-7 or better.

Forgive my ignorance, but the way you're explaining it, a 5:4 CPU:RAM ratio changes the memory multiplier to 1.25 (5/4), and the FSB of 250 multiplied by 1.25 comes out to DDR400 speeds (effectively 800MHz). Am I ignorant or does the math not work out? I get effectively 625MHz...? The reason I ask is because I've been fighting with the issue in my head all day, trying to figure out how I could possibly get MY rig (with a P4C800E-Del., OCZ 3700Gold R.2 and a 2.8C) running at DDR500 without having to run the CPU at 3.5GHz (despite the assurances that 25% is nothing for an M0-stepper, and clear evidence that they'll damn near do 4 on air). Long story short, could someone give exegesis on the motherboard timing ratios and memory multipliers functions?



Thanks as always in advance for your time and wisdom.

 

[myocardia]

Ike, you've got it backwards. A 5:4 ratio will run your ram slower than the cpu's fsb. I.E.-- 250 cpu fsb=200 mhz for the ram. And why in the world would you want to run your ram faster, without increasing your processor's speed? You've got some of the best overclocking ram sold today, buy yourself a good heatsink, and raise your fsb. You can leave the ram at a 1:1 ratio with that OCZ PC3700, and your system will fly.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Consider better cooling and be happy with what your comfortable with.

 

[jhurst]

I have the same setup Max......2.8C on IC7.....here is what i suggest. First I would sell that XMS and get some PC4000 Kingston HyperX.....Bestbuy is running a great deal on it (check it out in Hot Buys). Your temps seem high....even for Abit, might think about a HSF upgrade, or reseating your current HSF and maybe redoing your thermal paste application or something. Temps shouldnt get that high....ever. My load temps are around 53-55 degrees and thats overclocked to 3.5ghz. You should easily be able to overclock your processor further, say to 3.4ghz with stock HSF and 5:4 divider. I had PC3200 and upgraded to 500mhz RAM (1:1).....noticed a big difference, especially benchmarking. The XMS has good timings and all, but i doubt it could beat my CAS3 PC4000 (matter of fact I know it can't). As for your voltage dropping so low.....that is not good. You might want to think about an Enermax PSU.

 

[MaXThReAT]

Thanks for the reply guys. Good to know someone ells got a 2.8 up to 3.5.

I swaped out the volcano 7 and installed the intel HSF.
With no OC my temps still seem to high.
My temps at idle according to abit EQ are still in the 50c range with sys temp at 31c.
Under load I'm still seeing 70c+.

Did Abit ever fix the 10c+ issue with a new bios.
What should I do here?
I have the case open, sys 31c PW36 AGP 43c

Sandra and Abit EQ show the same temps.

 

[jhurst]

Hey Max.....

Before I got my Zalman, I OC'ed my system up to 3.4ghz with the stock HSF with no paste. My temps at load got up to about 65-68C (with case temp being 27-30C). When I put on my Zalman and some AS5.....my load temps are between 50-55C (55C being Prime95 torturing, 50C being standard gaming). Are you using thermal paste, and if so....applying correctly?

There is no Abit BIOS fix for the high temp......it is just a reference number basically. Who is to say that the Abit is over-temping and the ASUS isn't under-temping?? With that said.....using my rig as a reference.....temps seem high. Sandra/ABIT EQ/MBM5....they will all report the same temp. b/c they all use the same winbond diode to determine the temp, so don't worry bout that....worry about 70C+

P.S. I have heard different ABIT boards can report really random numbers, so if you are good connection between your CPU and your HSF....I wouldn't worry about it too much. Maybe yours reports 17C high

 

[MaXThReAT]

Hey jhurst below is a link to test betweeen the ASUS and IC7.

http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1845&amp;highlight=abit+ic7

How should the thermal paste be applyed?

Thanks again.

 

[jhurst]

Arctic Silver Instructions

These are the directions......scroll down the P4 section. Just a "grain of rice" size drop works. You can see also how the paste spreads evenly over the die with time....I'm gonna check mine out to see how well it set someday...but don't want to go through that hassle of removing/cleaning/lapping/reseating. I'm sure these instructions would work with any variety of thermal paste.....not just AS.

 

[MichaelZ]

why is your Vcore so low? it looks more like a prescott with Vcore in the 1.3's

 

[jhurst]

Yep overlooked that.....P4C's default voltage is 1.525.....I doubt a Northwood could run at such low voltage....not to mention the fact that the IC7 won't allow you to under-volt your Northwood (1.525 is lowest allowed setting)

 

[Soulkeeper]

yeah you are hitting about the same thermal limits as i am with my prescott
i had to back down from 3.22ghz because the heat went over 74c and locked her up
btw i have high confidence in the readings on my abit boards the temps are maybe +/- 3-5c off from my experience. you have to consider ambient temps and different bios settings between boards

also you are the first person i've heard who said they had no problem running those mem settings at streat racer on the abit boards with an overclock
my memory wouldn't do it at any speed (i have a gig tho)
even tryed just one stick

 

[MaXThReAT]

Well I would say I might have 3-4 gains of rice worth.
Last night: Sys temp 32c No OC W/ my Apt at about 73F+
Stock HSF: Idle 50-52c Prime95 CPU usage 50-54% 30min. 70-72c
Volcano 7: Idle 50-51c Prime95 CPU usage 50-54% 30min. 70-72c

What the heck. Same temps with stock and the volcano, not possible.

Could my temp sensor be malfunctioning?

 

[Soulkeeper]

no the prescotts are just that hot it seems
i have an sp-94 with a volcano 90mm and 80mm fan blowing on it
still get's over 70c under load tho
and under 60c idle

my northwood was less hot overclocked from 1.8ghz to 2.8ghz than this prescott is running at it's default speed of 2.8 haha

 

[Soulkeeper]

i let my cpu idle for a half hour here and the temps dropped to 50.5 idle
then i turned seti on and the temp is already 62c before i could write this
and this is at 3ghz with 1.4v

also i live in southern california so when the temps edge toward 100f later in the day i can expect 70c+

 

[smahoney]

hmm. Definitely sounds like a prescott that needs better cooling.

Don't listen to the idiot who suggested selling the memory for PC4000. Try using only two sticks at 2.8V and run the 2-3-2-5-T1 settings and set for speedracer for GAT. Run at 5:4 mem divider. Get a better heatsink and go for the 250FSB. You may need to run at SPD timings and auto GAT if you use four sticks.

The Volcano isn't any better than the Intel stock that ships with the Prescott. Not an M0 or any C Northwood if that is your default voltage.

I am running a P4 2.8C M0 at 3.64GHz 260MHz FSB at 1.55 volts - temps were in the upper 40's with an Alpha PAL at 250MHz and now 38-42 under load with H2O at 260MHz.

 

[jhites]

Originally posted by: jhurst
Yep overlooked that.....P4C's default voltage is 1.525.....I doubt a Northwood could run at such low voltage....not to mention the fact that the IC7 won't allow you to under-volt your Northwood (1.525 is lowest allowed setting)

Not so shocking, really. The MO stepping P4 is a multi-vid chip who's specs have a vcore between 1.425v and 1.525v even though the box will show 1.525 volts max. There is also no vcore stamped on the heat spreader as is with the 1.525v D1 stepping processors. On my P4C800 when setting the vcore to auto or the lowest manual setting of 1.525v it will still read 1.425v in the bios and with any Win sensor program. The vcore on these multi-vid chips are not all the same. One MO stepping may have 1.425v as default and another batch may be set to run at 1.525v. The MO stepping is really just a reject or untested EE that was needed for product demands of the 2.4 or 2.8 chips from what I have read. :roll:

Max
What is the sSpec of your 2.8C processor? It will be stamped on the cpu and is also on the retail box. If it is a MO stepping, it should read SL6Z5. The sSpec can actually determine if you do have a Prescott unless it was just marked wrong somehow.

I would also not recommend that you buy PC4000 for your setup. I sold my 2X512Mb sticks of Kingston HyperX PC3500 that I had been running at 262fsb 2-2-2-5 with 2.8v using 5:4 ratio and bought some PC4000 to run 1:1 and only gained 2%. Obviously, not worth it. You can most likely still run all 4 sticks but will need to give them some more juice up to 2.8vdimm.

Edit: Linky added.
My 2.8C MO here running full load with a SP94 @ 1.488v never gets above 46C with my home temps maintained at about 72F/22C. Even adding about 5-7C due to the P4C800 reading a little low still is in the 50-52C range.

 

[jhurst]

I feel I need to defend myself and my results.......(esp. after being called an idiot which I think is a bit over the top). If you plan on overclocking your system.....up to 250fsb+...I feel like PC4000 is a must for best performance. The Corsair XMS will top out at 220fsb 1:1.....only 440MHZ....and prolly won't run at that high of timings. And most of the time you will be running a 5:4 ratio....so your high dollar XMS PC3200 RAM won't even be running at full speed (400MHZ). I used to have PC3200 w/ timings of CL2-5-3-2, got a benchmark of ~5.2GB/s with SiSoft Sandra. Now, with my PC400 w/ timings of CL3-8-4-4, getting benches of over 6.1GB/s. Thats a 17% increase in bandwidth. I am a big supporter of MHZ opposed to fancy timings.