2-5-07 User fees proposed by Bush for air traffic services

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Zorba

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Zorba

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Zorba

Originally posted by: ntdz
How many middle class people do you know that own a plane? Besides, aren't you 100% for taxing rich people?

I know a lot of people in the middle class that own airplanes and a lot more that RENT airplanes. A used plane can be bought for ~10-25K, new kit planes around 100K. Many people form groups that buy planes together, so each person will own 1/4 of the plane and pay 1/4 of all the bills on it. Buying a plane is cheaper than many other hobbies middle class people do, such as RVing. The cost of owning a plane can be about the same as owning a ski boat.

All of you people that think "he owns a plane he must be rich," go to a little local airport and see the types of people that own and are renting planes. There are people from all walks of life.

BTW: Once again people already pay for the FAA through the current massive fuel taxes. There are also landing, parking, tie-down, fuel fees at many airports.

Thank you sir once again :thumbsup:

Too bad you are the only one that seems to be reading my posts, since everyone is still saying "You should have to pay for the service." Do you fly?

Yes but not since 1990. I used to fly on Long Island and then in Pembroke Florida. The airport where the banner planes take off from (that is fun).

Since then I have gone down the economic scale sadly.

What did you fly 152/172s? I did the majority of my flight training at Riverside in Tulsa, which is usually in the top 30 busiest airports in the country. Good place to learn to fly, because when you go over to an international airport like Tulsa or OKC, it is a lot less busy .

Yes, 152's and a tail dragger once at Perry (banner plane) but I didn't attempt to land it.

I bought a kitplane a few years back for $10K but since I didn't finish getting my license I also left the kit behind in one of my divorces.

There was a thread recently in OT of what was the most expensive thing you bought and didn't use and that was my entry.

If my business takes off here I will head down to Tulsa and work on finishing getting my license if BushCo is not sucessful in grounding all General Avation due to off loading Airliner costs onto the peons of the Country.

 

[rudder]

This proposal comes around every fews years. Not just a Bush thing. I started flight instructing back in 1991 and was aware of government proposals to make private pilots pay fees for things such as IFR flight plans. It always sounds good on paper... but when you look at it will tax revenue really inscrease if there is a decrease in the number of flights?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: wirelessenabled

Originally posted by: kedlav
Doesn't sound too unreasonable to me. Pay for what you use, less free handouts to the rich/big business...

The non-pilots here are missing the point of this problem.

As a private pilot flying a small plane I don't need or use the majority of the air traffic control (ATC) services. ATC in the US is set up to serve the airlines and the large airline type airports. What the airlines want is to take all the services given by ATC and lump them in to a per flight or per mile type of fee. So a small plane with one or two people would pay the same ATC fees as an airliner with 400 people.

First thing that would happen is all the small planes would opt out of all services. Next step would be for ATC services to be mandated. Final step would be for all small planes being grounded because owners won't pay fees.

Let me give you a typical scenario. I fly over to Seattle to a small airport like Auburn. On the way over I use flight following not because it does much for me but because the airliners need it to sequence etc. As I approach Seattle I am required to get a clearance from Seattle Center, again not because it helps me, but because there is a ton of airline traffic and what the airliners are required to do, so am I. Finally I land at Auburn where the whole place is fenced and patrolled. Again it really doesn't matter to me but the airlines and the FAA are scared so what is done at SEATAC is pretty much done elsewhere.

Throughout the flight I use ATC "services" not because they help me with my flight but because they are either required or help the airliners. Now Bush and the FAA want me to pay for these unneeded, unwanted "services".

Thanks for explaination, it's helpful for us non-pilots.

The question of the manner of assessing/collecting the FAA fees is really a cost accountung question. Given the apparent little usage of such services by private pilots, and the "full" vs "half full" plane senario mentioned in the article, the proposal for allocation (or tax) on fuel usage is totally & transparently faulty.

I hope you guys (private pilots) have a decent lobbying group, and that they are getting good advice from cost accountants.

Fern