1st time buyer, dealer negotiation advice and what to look out for?

[sciwizam]

Looking to buy a 2011 Civic LX Sedan. Asking around Austin, I am getting drive out quotes for ~$18600. I called around to dealers in Dallas and Houston.

Dealers in Houston are quoting $18100. One dealer in Dallas gave me ~17500 and another with ~18400 (including something called a "pro package" add-on worth $1100). Supposedly they apply the "pro package" to all the cars they get and it includes window tint, wheel locks, splash guards, mats etc.

I think the "pro package" is BS and don't think I need most of the add-ons, am I wrong? Which add-ons/accessories/protection plans are worth getting?

I'm leaning towards the guy who quoted 17500 in Dallas. What should I make sure before I drive out 3.5hrs to get the car? What's the average mileage for a car that sat in the dealers lot and might have been used as a test drive car? I plan to keep the car for how ever long it lasts, should I buy any extended warranty now or later? Any thing else I'm missing?

I know TL;DR, help a noob out.

EDIT: Honda website says "Security System with Remote Entry" is standard. Dealers might up sell a security feature like Lo-jack or something. Is buying that recommended and what's a reasonable price?

 

[dmoney1980]

You can start here: http://www.truecar.com/

This will give you an idea of what the car you want sells for in your area. Never tell the dealer how much you can afford. When they ask "what kind of payment are you looking for?" you tell them "the lowest possible, what are you offering?"

I believe you can go lower than 17k on the civic since the redesigned 2012 models are coming out.

 

[kornphlake]

3.5 hrs is a long way to travel for a car like a Civic, as soon as the salesman finds out you drove that far you'll appear pretty committed to buying the car regardless of price, he's going to hammer you suspecting that you don't really want to drive all the way home in an old car. I'd shop locally and drill the dealers for a better price.

Some dealerships are now offering internet sales, you might be able to negotiate the price and arrange financing or payment through email or the dealer's website so you know what kind of a deal you'll be getting before you drive 3.5 hours to take possession of the vehicle.

 

[sciwizam]

All the quotes I got are from the Internet sales guys at the dealers. I've their quoted prices in email.

 

[alfa147x]

I HAVE NEVER SEEN AS MANY PEOPLE MAKE BAD PURCHASING DECISIONS AS WHEN THEY’RE IN A CAR DEALER’s OFFICE.

Here’s how I did it:
When I decided to buy—at the end of December, when salespeople are desperate to meet their quotas—I faxed seventeen car dealers and told them exactly which car I wanted. I said I was prepared to buy the car within two weeks and, because I knew exactly how much profit they would make off the car, I would go with the lowest price offered to me. The same day, as I sat back with a cup of Earl Grey tea and a Taco Bell burrito, faxes started rolling in from the dealers. After I had all the offers, I called the dealers, told them the lowest price I’d received, and gave each of them a chance to beat it. This resulted in a bidding war that led to a downward spiral of near-orgasmic deals.
In the end, I chose a dealer in Palo Alto who sold me the car for $2,000 under invoice—a nearly unheard-of price. I didn’t have to waste my time going to multiple dealerships, and I didn’t have to bother with slimy car salesmen. I went into only one dealer’s office: the winning one.

Worth a shot? I always have wanted to try that out but never bought a new car

 

[satyajitmenon]

The same day, as I sat back with a cup of Earl Grey tea and a Taco Bell burrito, faxes started rolling in from the dealers.

Wut?

 

[Mursilis]

When you talk price, make sure you talk only about the OTD (out-the-door) price. It's pointless to get a quote without confirming there are no hidden prep fees, doc fees, etc. Tell them you're a Texas state resident who will be registering the car in Texas (or whatever state) so they can accurately compute the taxes, and see who gives you the lowest OTD price. You don't want to play the game of going to the dealer who gave you a lowball quote on the car itself, only to find there's a $495 prep fee, a $295 doc fee, etc, etc.

Oh, and don't be afraid to walk. There are probably hundreds of Civics in your area, and you only need one.

 

[bryanW1995]

send the internet quote to your local honda dealer and try to get them to beat it. hoewver, at the end of the day in my mind it's probably worth $300-$500 to you to avoid having the entire day wasted (and potentially the trip as well) b/c the dallas dealer knows that he has you. I wouldn't drive to dallas unless they give you the out the door figure in writing first, and even then expect hassles. I'm in boerne but I sell dodge/chrysler/jeep not honda. I don't know any honda dealers in this area or austin, unfortunately.

edit: don't buy lo-jack on a car that cheap. the other stuff can be worth something, just try to decide what you personally think it's worth to you. Warranty is typically a good idea if they give you a good price, even on a honda. In fact, it's typically extremely cheap on a honda because the warranty companies have to use historical data for pricing rather than real-time evaluations of vehicle rapair rates. Hondas are good on quality, but they're not as good compared to other manufacturers as they were 5-10 years ago based upon initial quality and long term reliability statistics from jd powers.

 

[JCH13]

3.5 hrs is a long way to travel for a car like a Civic, as soon as the salesman finds out you drove that far you'll appear pretty committed to buying the car regardless of price

This can work to your advantage because it makes you a more serious buyer. Call the dealer and ask about price before you go there. Say "If you can get it to $16,500 OTD I'll get the car tomorrow." Or whatever price would make you happy. The statement "I'll get the car tomorrow," or today if you like, makes them really anxious to make a deal and sell the car, it has worked really well for me.

 

[JTsyo]

I had gotten the extended warranty for my wife's Escape but always regretted not getting the road hazard warranty for the tires. Had I known it was an option, I would have gotten it. Have gone through 3 tires so far in 5 years.

 

[bryanW1995]

good point on the road hazard. most of the exclusionary policies cover road hazard as well, but make sure that you ask about it AND get it in writing (should be on copy of policy or brochure).

 

[rdp6]

Go to zag.com, select American Express (does not require login for prices) and go from there. Try several zip codes to find the best deal. Select the options you want. Submit your contact information for quotes. When someone sends you the window sticker, google the VIN to find which dealership actually has the vehicle - that dealership is best able to sell for it for less and they will likely meet whatever you found at ZAG.

See if there are manufacturer customer service reps at your car's enthusiast web site and ask for a coupon. I was PM'd a $750 coupon about 90 minutes after I requested one from Ford last week at fordflex.net.

When you have found the car you want, the dealer who has it, and the lowest price offered for that configuration anywhere you are just about done. Call the dealership which has the car, tell them which VIN(s) you want and make your offer or continue asking for their best price if ZAG wasn't satisfactory. Maybe mention if you qualify for a corporate discount, that might help, at least with getting rid of ridiculous fees.

Ask for the odometer reading: suspiciously good prices may indicate a demo car. Maybe you want that, maybe you don't. If mileage is unacceptable, maybe ask for depreciation. I was prepared to ask for at least 20 cents per mile (commensurate with lease terms) but didn't have to do so based on my assessment of the location and mileage of the one I bought.

Once you are ready to inspect and buy, set up as much as possible before you go to the dealership:

Have the dealer break down the pricing for you. For me it was $400 under invoice plus about $200 in doc fees, then taxes, then incentives were applied to yield the out the door price.

Apply online for financing (I started with USAA on my own, and the dealer was able to get me 2.24% for 6 years on the Flex with US Bank based on my >800 credit score). You may have to send a scan of your driver's license.

Tell them you don't want vin etching, under body coating, scotch guard on the seats, extended warranty, prepaid maintenance plan, insurance on the loan (wtf?), etc. unless you want that stuff. If you do, then you may have a hard time keeping the out the door price straight.

Get insurance for your new vehicle online and forward proof to the dealership.

Find out what is acceptable for payment. I got a certified check from the bank for part of the down payment (personal checks would not be accepted) and used a credit card for the rest to get the points (I wonder if Amex will add another year to the warranty...)

Finally, sort out any special requests: set up a time to inspect and test drive the one you will buy in case there are any show stoppers. I prohibited badges and stickers and asked for a few other things based on my situation.

With all this done, I was super excited to arrive at the dealership even after a long day at work and over 3 hours of driving to get there. Dealer rep had paperwork all ready to go with numbers I had already vetted. Car was prepped exactly as I had directed. Finance guy had already zeroed out all the extra junk. There were zero surprises, I got the exact car I wanted (Black/Black LTD / Ecoboost Flex and floor mats and vista roof)
and I left totally stoked. In past purchases (this is my 3rd new car purchase) I left kinda whipped from stress and all the discussions which provide a great deal of confusing options and prices.

 

[marvdmartian]

Worth a shot? I always have wanted to try that out but never bought a new car

Part of the problem with that is that the OP is wanting to buy a Civic, one of the more popular cars on the road. That usually means the dealers are less willing to budge on price, because they know there's another buyer right around the corner. Especially with gas prices so high, and the Civic getting good gas mileage.

Might work if you were buying a truck, or SUV, though. Couple years ago, when gas was this high, I went online to a bunch of dealers, and asked them for quotes on 4x4 full sized pickup trucks. Didn't need a bunch of options, gave them what I wanted on it. One dealer, about 30 minutes from here, priced me out at ~$20K, for a Silverado. Yeah, they were hurting then!


Sciwizamm, it's like what's already has been said. If they ask you what sort of payment you're looking for, tell them you're not ready to talk about payments yet, you want to look at cars, and get the bottom line price. Same goes if you plan on trading a car......don't even tell them you're planning on a trade. Or a down payment, in cash. Make them make the best deal they can, and make sure it's at least close to what you want.

When I bought my car, they were offering $3000 rebate, so I knew I wouldn't get much wiggle room on the price. But I let them tell me their out the door price, then we talked about trade, we talked about my cash down payment, THEN we talked about the monthly payment, and add-ons. I ended up getting an extension on the bumper to bumper warranty for a fair price, and turned down all the rest of the stuff they offered. When they gave me their bottom line price, I asked them if they'd drop it $300, to an even $15,000 (and, of course, the salesman had to go talk to the manager). They ended up splitting the $300 in half, and threw in a couple $35 oil changes for free, so I said what the hell, and made the deal.

But like you heard already, be willing to walk if they're messing with you, or not wanting to talk real dollars and cents figures. Believe me, you'll be glad you did!

 

[rdp6]

For reference, ZAG.com shows the Civic Sedan LX with manual (no options are available, I have never shopped for a honda) at $1375 below invoice. My observation is that ZAG prices always take the form of (INVOICE) +/- some blanked discount. All Flexes regardless of trim level and options were always $400 below invoice plus invoice for each selected options...

Ok, I checked the 4-door LX-S with auto transmission and it is also $1375 below invoice. There are no incentives for this car in my area, so this car without dealer add ons (vin etching, extended warranty, etc) is going to be (unless you manage to negotiate for better that $1375 below invoice) $17211 + doc fees plus TTL. Pretty easy for you to understand and very easy to demand from any dealer.

You can really dig into the weeds and find the dealer holdback, but you will not receive friendly treatment if you go too far. If I understand it correctly, invoice minus dealer holdback is the most optimistic break-even figure for the dealership. The dealer usually takes a loan to obtain the vehicle, has to pay some service charge on that loan, pay for labor and overhead, etc, and even make some profit. That all is baked into the dealer holdback. Anything below invoice is eating into the holdback.

Now, if you can find last year's model with undesirable color, options, was used as a demo, generally stinks up the place, etc. the dealer may take a loss on it (possibly go under invoice minus holdback). You have to find the right balance: on a hot selling car asking for that kind of a deal will be taken as an insult.

Overall I spent some months distilling my needs, finding appropriate vehicle models, reading professional reviews and owner testimonials, working out what I can afford and settling on which options & trim levels are in the budget, etc. Then I realized I needed to save some more to keep monthly payments where the wife would approve. So I waited.

I reached my down payment goal in mid-March and began hunting in earnest in the last week of the month to maximize dealer desperation to reach sales goals.

 

[KeithP]

..If they ask you what sort of payment you're looking for, tell them you're not ready to talk about payments yet, you want to look at cars, and get the bottom line price.

Actually, you might not get the best price that way. It is important to have your financing already sorted out and to give the dealer a chance to beat it. It is possible the dealer will get some extra profit from the financing (through incentives) so they might be willing to go a little cheaper on the price if they get your financing business as well.

Also, you might want to research the dealer as much as possible. I would be more interested in building a relationship as a customer with a good local dealer, if you can find one, rather than driving a half a day away to save a little money.

-KeithP

 

[ballmode]

New civic in a few months, I would wait to get either a new LX or a leftover 2011 when that times comes. Hold out if you can