1989 Accord LX-i with 240k miles for $500?

[Shawn]

My sister is pretty irresponsible when it comes to cars. She wrecked her 2001 Wolfsburg Jetta and got into an accident with her 2001 Civic (which was clearly her fault). After getting it repaired she managed to get a bad dent into the brand new fender. My dad wants to get her a beater car to replace her civic. He was looking at a 1989 Accord LX-i which has all of the upgrades that were available in 89, including power windows, power moonroof, 14" alloy rims, etc.

Anyway the car has 240k miles. I haven't had a chance to see it yet but will take a look next week when I'm on spring break. My dad says that it looks to be in good shape and the engine runs great, but the automatic transmission appeared to slip until it warmed up. Any idea how much this would be to fix? I don't know if I could fix it myself or not. I could replace a clutch in a manual myself, but I don't know much about automatics. I've read it could be something as simple as low transmission fluid, to something more serious. I'm pretty sure it's the original transmission with 240k miles on it.

The guy was asking $700, but my dad was going to try to get him down to $500. Would that be worth it?



edit:
Bought it for $525. Here are some pics:
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/search.php?q=03160812

 

[sniperruff]

the transmission may be the reason that he's selling it.

and IMO for cars that are >10-yr old, electric stuff are burdens, esp a leaking sunroof...

 

[PCMarine]

Your dad should tell your sister to get a job and buy her own damn car or walk. After wrecking two cars (presumably free for her) , you're done.

 

[thomsbrain]

Good idea to get a beater for her, but you might have fewer headaches with a manual transmission and no moonroof to leak. A slipping automatic tranny is on its way out, and they are not cheap.

 

[imported_K3N]

Yeah, make her drive a manual beater, so she actually fucking pays attention to the road!

 

[Zenmervolt]

My first car was a 1988 Accord LX-i. Great car. Had the typical rust issues that late 1980's Japanese cars tend to have (rear fenders specifically), but was otherwise good. The moonroof never hinted at leaking. The transmission (automatic) grenaded at 205,000 miles and we rebuilt it, but I eventually sold the car due to rust issues at 217,000 miles. From what I gathered from other owners, the automatics were typically only good for 200,000 to 250,000 miles.

Unlike most automatic transmissions, Honda automatics do not use traditional planetary gearsets, rather Honda automatics use a multiple shaft design with sliding gears that is similar to a traditional manual gearbox, albeit with hydraulic (or now electronic) control and a torque converter. Because the design is unique to Honda (done to avoid the need to license technology from or form a joint-venture with patent-holder Borg Warner), parts can sometimes be more difficult to find and repairs tend to be more expensive than on automatic transmissions used by other automotive makes. (For example, the transmission in my current Volvo shares many components with Toyota automatics as both are produced by AsinWarner, Honda automatics do not have this ability.)

The transmission will probably cost around $2,000 to rebuild today. A used unit will be less, but there's a question of how much more life is really in whatever used transmission you find.

ZV

 

[thedarkwolf]

The sunroof is an easy fix with a tube of caulk, its a beater. If you can replace a clutch you can replace an automatic trans. Just have to find out how much a junkyard trans cost in your area. Around here its $100-$400ish depending on the car. I personally wouldn't want to spend $500 on a beater with 240k miles and a dying trans when I know I can find something with 100k less miles on it and a working trans for the same cash, it just won't have a honda or toyota badge on the front.

 

[summit]

get her a scooter!

 

[thecritic]

Get her an S-Series Saturn and teach her how to check the oil.

 

[slag]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
The sunroof is an easy fix with a tube of caulk, its a beater. If you can replace a clutch you can replace an automatic trans. Just have to find out how much a junkyard trans cost in your area. Around here its $100-$400ish depending on the car. I personally wouldn't want to spend $500 on a beater with 240k miles and a dying trans when I know I can find something with 100k less miles on it and a working trans for the same cash, it just won't have a honda or toyota badge on the front.

Where am i missing that he said there was anything wrong with the sunroof/moonroof?

Someone else said that moonroofs can leak, but no one said they had a leaking one.

I've never had a leaky moonroof. T-tops, yes, but not a moonroof and I've owned several cars with moonroofs.

 

[Shawn]

Regarding the transmission: Is this something that would get progressively worse, or would it just suddenly give out completely (engine spins, but no go)?

 

[Gibson486]

Originally posted by: Shawn
Regarding the transmission: Is this something that would get progressively worse, or would it just suddenly give out completely (engine spins, but no go)?

It could go either way. Does the gas pedal not press down on the way? If so, that transmission is almost gone.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Had an 88 LX-i. Tranny went out at about 200K. Sunroof was leaking too, as someone else mentioned. (Everyone I know that had that car had the sunroof leak) I'd pretty much assume that the cost of the car is going to be $500 + whatever it'll cost to have the tranny replaced...I'd keep that in mind if your dad does decide to buy it. I wouldn't bank on it working fine after it warms up.

 

[Shawn]

Well I checked it out and the transmission seemed to be ok. That doesn't mean it doesn't have any problems but I wasn't able to reproduce the slipping that my dad experienced in the short time that I test drove it. Anyway we were able to talk the guy down to $525. We are going to get the title for it tomorrow.

It's actually in pretty good shape. The body has been repainted with a lighter, more modern shade of blue. It's actually a pretty nice color. The weather stripping around the doors, etc, is faded but I plan on spray painting it black. One of the tail lights is cracked so I'll need to replace that. Inside it's in pretty good shape although the seats are stained and there is a crack in the dash. This car has power everything and luckily it all works. The stereo is broken but can easily be replaced. One of the previous owners put in some aftermarket Kenwood speakers so that's a plus.

The guy we talked to was selling it for his daughter. She supposedly had it regularly serviced but she never kept any records so we have no idea what has been done. The first thing I plan on doing tomorrow when I get it is to change the timing belt. Does anyone know if I can reuse the tensioner and idler pulleys or should I just replace everything. I am planning on changing the coolant, oil, power steering fluid, and transmission fluid? I may also change the coolant hoses just to be safe. What else should I do?

 

[Zenmervolt]

I don't know about re-using the tensioner or the pulleys. In general though I would recommend not re-using anything when you aren't sure of the car's history. Even when the parts are re-usable they are generally only re-usable once when it comes to timing belts and pulleys. The timing belt is a good idea since the engine is an interference design and the factory interval is 60,000 miles, which means you're definitely due for it at 240,000 miles.

Regarding the power steering fluid: Honda uses a very specific power steering fluid, so be absolutely sure that you buy fluid that lists Hondas explicitly.

Only other thing I can think of replacing is the fuel filter.

ZV

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I don't know about re-using the tensioner or the pulleys. In general though I would recommend not re-using anything when you aren't sure of the car's history. Even when the parts are re-usable they are generally only re-usable once when it comes to timing belts and pulleys. The timing belt is a good idea since the engine is an interference design and the factory interval is 60,000 miles, which means you're definitely due for it at 240,000 miles.

Regarding the power steering fluid: Honda uses a very specific power steering fluid, so be absolutely sure that you buy fluid that lists Hondas explicitly.

Only other thing I can think of replacing is the fuel filter.

ZV

Air filter won't hurt while you're under there.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I don't know about re-using the tensioner or the pulleys. In general though I would recommend not re-using anything when you aren't sure of the car's history. Even when the parts are re-usable they are generally only re-usable once when it comes to timing belts and pulleys. The timing belt is a good idea since the engine is an interference design and the factory interval is 60,000 miles, which means you're definitely due for it at 240,000 miles.

Regarding the power steering fluid: Honda uses a very specific power steering fluid, so be absolutely sure that you buy fluid that lists Hondas explicitly.

Only other thing I can think of replacing is the fuel filter.

ZV

Air filter won't hurt while you're under there.

Coulda sworn he listed that.

ZV

 

[Shawn]

Picked up one of those as well. I was reading somewhere that the Haynes manual says I need to take the front left wheel off, jack up the engine and remove the engine mount in order to change the timing belt. It also said to remove the AC compressor, power steering, etc. Anyone here with experience changing the timing belt in this car? Is all of that really necessary?

If it is I'll do it but I'd rather not remove stuff I don't have to. The factory service manual doesn't mention any of that. It shows the AC compressor in place in the diagrams.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Shawn
Picked up one of those as well. I was reading somewhere on here that the Haynes manual says I need to take the front left wheel off, jack up the engine and remove the engine mount in order to change the timing belt. It also said to remove the AC compressor, power steering, etc. Anyone here with experience changing the timing belt in this car? Is all of that really necessary?

If it is I'll do it but I'd rather not remove stuff I don't have to. The factory service manual doesn't mention any of that. It shows the AC compressor in place in the diagrams.

I never did a timing belt myself on my old Accord. But I remember the mechanic saying that it was a royal pain and mentioning something about "effectively dismantling the entire front of the engine", so the Haynes manual sounds accurate. You can probably get away without removing the actual compressor, but you'll definitely need to remove the compressor drive belt (IIRC this engine uses several separate belts for each accessory instead of a serpentine belt).

ZV

 

[thedarkwolf]

The hardest part of changing the belt on the old accord I helped with was getting the damn crank pulley bolt off. That thing is twisted on by God himself. My pretty powerfull 1/2 impacted that has never let me down before couldn't get it off even with the air pressure upped to 120psi and we broke several sockets and extentions trying to do it with a breaker bar. We never did get the thing off. We had already taken everything else off so we couldn't get take it to a mechanic and the owner was too impatient to wait till he could borrow and even manlier impact gun so he cut off the plastic timing belt shield and we managed to feed the belt around the pulley and get it on. It was a huge PITA.

 

[Shawn]

I didn't even end up changing the timing belt. I took the valve cover off and the belt looks brand new. I also checked the spark plugs and they looked brand new as well.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Shawn
I didn't even end up changing the timing belt. I took the valve cover off and the belt looks brand new. I also checked the spark plugs and they looked brand new as well.

I'd be worried. Old belts don't always look old and if it snaps it's goodbye to your valves. I'd be scared to death of driving that car much if I didn't know when the timing belt was changed last. Obviously, your own call and I haven't seen the belt so it could be obviously new, but it's always a standing recommendation from me to change the timing belt on an interference engine that doesn't have maintenance records.

ZV

 

[Shawn]

It's not an interface engine. The Haynes manual is wrong. There is a pretty big thread on it over at 3geez.com.

 

[Shawn]

Here are some pics:
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/search.php?q=03160812

Sorry for the crappy pics. I quickly took them with my cell phone before I left to come back to school. As you can see that is not the original blue. It was painted a more modern blue by a previous owner.

I spray painted the trim around the bumper and doors because it was badly faded. It looks much better now. Also the rims were switched with my miata since I had brand new tires and the accord tires were dry rotted. The miata is just sitting at home for now so it's no big deal.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Shawn
It's not an interface engine. The Haynes manual is wrong. There is a pretty big thread on it over at 3geez.com.

It absolutely is an interference engine. I owned one. Every single source I looked at, including two separate mechanics and a dealership confirmed that the A20A3 engine used in that year Accord is indeed an interference engine. If the timing belt snaps, you will bend valves unless you're the luckiest guy on earth.

ZV