1987 Trans Am project car... or something else?

[Jeff7181]

I have the opportunity to buy a 1987 Trans Am, probably for 2-3k. It "runs and drives," as Mr. Rawlings would say. Has a dinged fender, but the current owner has already started repairs and I'm capable of finishing them.

I'm assuming it has a 305 in it, but there's a chance it could have a 350. I'll find out more details about what this car is/isn't in the coming weeks, but I'm considering putting a couple thousand dollars more into it to do something like this: http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-9903-305-chevy-small-block-engine-build/

... and make a relatively fun, weekend/summer car that may eventually get a bigger small block like a 350 (or even a 427 at some point).

But assuming the bottom end is healthy... for about $4000 I could have a little "hot rod" with 300+ whp and a nice sounding V8.

Are there any other cars I should consider in the $3-5k price range that will provide this level of "fun" and ability to tinker? (aside from the obvious, beat-to-hell Mustang 5.0 of the same era)

 

[sgrinavi]

Sounds like fun, probably pretty easy to work on too. Be sure to get your mullet squared away before you take'r out

 

[Jimzz]

I would not pay over 2k based on what you have said so far. I would also dump the engine/trans and get a LS motor setup. Buy a wrecked GM van/truck as the LS motors in those can be made real fast but are not looked at as much as the F-Bodies/Corvettes/GTO's.

How old are you ok with? What is your skill set?

The C3 corvettes (75+) can be had cheaply.
Chevy Monzas. Factory V8 in a very small car. Look out for rust of course.
87+ 944. Pull motor and tose in a LS motor.
AMC AMX classic looks and lots of options.

Look for unloved cars that still have the ability to handle the power and mods you want to make.

 

[pauldun170]

Do you just want something to light up the rears and do some drag racing or do you want it to handle as well?

F-bodies of that era
You'll need to replace the rear end with something more substantial.
Do you like the sound of Squeaks? Get used to it.
Get your wiring diagrams read because you are going to need it on these. Windows...flip up.headlight motors...various stuff in the dash.
I guess you are looking at auto's. Expect to replace it. If you are looking at a manual (available with the 305 V8), expect to replace that. I recall them being fairly weak.
As far as F-bodies go, third gen are actually ok if you want to pursue both handling and power. 4th gen serve a better foundation for power but I vaguely recall them being annoying when it comes to working on them.

Don't discount the amount of work you may have to do on electrical and rust. Drive train swap can be fairly straight forward (after you reinforce crap on the subframe).
Dealing with old brittle plastic that crumbles in your hand, or slicing your hand open on that rusted hole in the rear quarter. sucks

Keep in mind that the end result will end up with constant teasing.

 

[Jeff7181]

I would not pay over 2k based on what you have said so far. I would also dump the engine/trans and get a LS motor setup. Buy a wrecked GM van/truck as the LS motors in those can be made real fast but are not looked at as much as the F-Bodies/Corvettes/GTO's.

How old are you ok with? What is your skill set?

The C3 corvettes (75+) can be had cheaply.
Chevy Monzas. Factory V8 in a very small car. Look out for rust of course.
87+ 944. Pull motor and tose in a LS motor.
AMC AMX classic looks and lots of options.

Look for unloved cars that still have the ability to handle the power and mods you want to make.

An LS swap would drive the cost (and work) up considerably. I'm basically looking at swapping the heads, cam, intake and putting a Holley 750 on it or something like that. That should bring it up into the mid-300 HP range and it should sound pretty good with a nice lumpy cam.

I've built, rebuilt and swapped engines, transmissions and rear ends, so I'm confident in my skill set although it's been a while so I'll probably have to pick up a few tools along the way.

This is a stage one type of build... do it as cheaply as possible to make the car a little more fun. Eventually, if I enjoy it, it might get upgraded suspension to handle corners or it may end up being a street/strip car and get some drag radials in the back and a bigger engine. Or it may just go on craigslist in a few years.

(oh... and squeaks are fine... I don't intend to be able to hear them over the sound of the engine)

 

[franksta]

I wouldn't spend any time or money on a 305. If it runs and it's fun enough for you I'd leave it alone but if you need anything beyond what it delivers stock swap it out. 350s are all over the place, dirt cheap, and have the largest selection of parts available for them.

 

[Jeff7181]

I wouldn't spend any time or money on a 305. If it runs and it's fun enough for you I'd leave it alone but if you need anything beyond what it delivers stock swap it out. 350s are all over the place, dirt cheap, and have the largest selection of parts available for them.

As long as I don't blow up the 305, basically any parts I'd buy for the 305 would work on a future 350, though. So if I spent a little extra and got some aluminum heads and a decent intake, I could use them on a 350 with no problem... maybe a 350 short block with a new cam to account for the extra displacement.

Maybe I'll scour craigslist and see if someone might already have a 350 built to 350 or so horsepower with some miles on it that they're looking to get rid of for a thousand bucks or so.

I want the total spend to be under $5000... and if I end up paying a couple thousand for the car I doubt I can get a new, complete 350 for cheap enough that I'd still have a few bucks for anything I need after that, like transmission rebuild kit, axle seals, U joints, etc.

 

[Ramses]

You just about can't pick a cheaper project car, if you can't build what you want out of that one, you can't build what you want. Go for it.

I agree it sounds like a $1500 car though, I see that era f bodies raggy and cheap for next to nothing still. They are what they are, but I still dig em. Herb Adams took a bone base stock v6 car and pulled a G on the skidpad with bolton suspension mods in the 80's. Always thought a turbo v6 with a stick would be fun in one.

Assuming you don't have to pass smog, one would have to screw up pretty bad not to get 300hp out of a 350 given good heads and a correctly sized cam. LS has overshadowed these days and it's a great motor, but the old stuff still works. That said, put an LS in it.

Only other bug I can think to put in your ear, is early C4 corvette.......

 

[Jeff7181]

Anyone know how much the 305 shortblock can handle before I'd have to start thinking about upgrading the bottom end? Getting over 400 horsepower out of the engine would require a bit of money... so I'm thinking if the bottom end can handle up to 400 horsepower, I'll stick with the 305 until I'm ready to swap the whole drivetrain.

 

[Ramses]

You can do 300 at the crank on a stock 305 *if* it's in good order. Beyond that is probably in the realm of luck unless you get exotic(for a 305). There are tons of articles on such from hot rod and car craft and the like years back.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Do you just want something to light up the rears and do some drag racing or do you want it to handle as well?

F-bodies of that era
You'll need to replace the rear end with something more substantial.
Do you like the sound of Squeaks? Get used to it.
Get your wiring diagrams read because you are going to need it on these. Windows...flip up.headlight motors...various stuff in the dash.
I guess you are looking at auto's. Expect to replace it. If you are looking at a manual (available with the 305 V8), expect to replace that. I recall them being fairly weak.
As far as F-bodies go, third gen are actually ok if you want to pursue both handling and power. 4th gen serve a better foundation for power but I vaguely recall them being annoying when it comes to working on them.

Don't discount the amount of work you may have to do on electrical and rust. Drive train swap can be fairly straight forward (after you reinforce crap on the subframe).
Dealing with old brittle plastic that crumbles in your hand, or slicing your hand open on that rusted hole in the rear quarter. sucks

Keep in mind that the end result will end up with constant teasing.

That's because the engine was mounted so far back in the engine bay that it was half way under the firewall.

Avoid a convertible of this era at all cost. They are extremely weak and prone to flex in the chassis.

 

[boomerang]

Hmm, SE Michigan. Where are the problem rust areas on F bodies?

 

[Ramses]

Hmm, SE Michigan. Where are the problem rust areas on F bodies?

The bottom side lol...

 

[franksta]

As long as I don't blow up the 305, basically any parts I'd buy for the 305 would work on a future 350, though. So if I spent a little extra and got some aluminum heads and a decent intake, I could use them on a 350 with no problem... maybe a 350 short block with a new cam to account for the extra displacement.

Maybe I'll scour craigslist and see if someone might already have a 350 built to 350 or so horsepower with some miles on it that they're looking to get rid of for a thousand bucks or so.

I want the total spend to be under $5000... and if I end up paying a couple thousand for the car I doubt I can get a new, complete 350 for cheap enough that I'd still have a few bucks for anything I need after that, like transmission rebuild kit, axle seals, U joints, etc.

The 305 is cursed with a tiny (relatively) bore size. This, in my opinion, is the limiting factor for power production since you are limited to smaller valves that don't flow much air. I don't think a 350 cylinder head would swap because the intake valve would smash into the block.

EDIT: I read that the wrong way but the point still stands. If you put a 305 head on a 350 block it's going to limit the power potential.

 

[Ramses]

http://camaroforums.com/forum/82-92-general-10/325-hp-305-must-read-1860/

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/project-cars/sucp-1007-305-small-block-engine-build/

Not ideal but plenty do-able.

 

[Jeff7181]

I know this is kind of an old thread now, doesn't seem like it's been that long since I posted it. But... what if I just slapped a Weiand 144 on it? That could be fun...

 

[COPOHawk]

If you haven't checked out www.thirdgen.org yet...please do. It will answer a lot of your questions.

Putting a Weiand 144 on a stock 305...is that what you are asking?

 

[Jeff7181]

If you haven't checked out www.thirdgen.org yet...please do. It will answer a lot of your questions.

Putting a Weiand 144 on a stock 305...is that what you are asking?

Stock bottom end... I'd probably put a cam designed for boosted engines in with new rockers and heavier valve springs and probably new ignition. Initially I'd probably just slap a carb on it, but eventually it would be nice to go EFI.

(and thank you for the link!)

 

[COPOHawk]

I personally wouldn't spend the money to beef up a stock 305...I would drive as-is until you can do a 350 swap...or a 383. The biggest problem is trying to balance cost of swap/upgrades vs. Total value of car when done.