1943 to 2024: Obituary. The "Baby Killer" punched his ticket

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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LA TIMES Obituary to follow my comment here]

That phrase – “Baby Killer” – became additional ammunition in political confrontations about the Viet Nam War. But Lt. Calley labelled himself, in his own words, by his own admission. Jane Fonda? She’s still alive at 85, but that observation alone shouldn’t have any bearing on the topic.

There should be a consensus today about wasting $1 Trillion or more and sacrificing 59,000 Americans and 2 million Asians – countless more wounded, based on the facts, based on the history, based on all the circumstances, and the simple truth that nineteen years of war (1954-1975) yielded nothing but the same outcome if Johnson had not followed the Joint Chiefs in expanding the war during the mid- ‘60s. LBJ might instead have simply followed the dictates of JFK’s NSAM (National Security Action Memorandum) #263. But you will still find people insisting that it wasn’t a mistake, perhaps owing to a general public misunderstanding of George Kennan’s white-paper written for the JCS during the late 1940s. The general public, after all, had never heard of George Kennan nor ever read his strategic doctrine.

Just by asking those particular people questions to assess their knowledge – for instance, “who created the Saigon Military Mission in 1952?” or “Who became the manufactured constituency for Ngo Dinh Diem?” – you can quickly conclude which opinion is grounded in the greatest ignorance or conversely – accumulated understanding.

It deserves emphasis that concluding a mistake has nothing to do with the honor deserved by most of our men who served. But the naysayers never fail to interject dishonor to our troops as synonymous with the growing conclusion about the war.

What is also very interesting is a prediction made by the famous Longshoreman turned college professor – Eric Hoffer, author of the book “True Believer”. He argued that pulling out of Viet Nam, even as late and delayed the decision to do so, was also a mistake, suggesting that the reversal would eventually lead to an era of shifting public opinion and ascendant fascism generations later.

Decide yourselves whether or not his prediction came true, or that it somehow negates the appropriate choice in face of the original mistake. Just as troubling, “True Believer” describes a phenomenon of today’s politics parallel to the prediction about public opinion. Personally, I’m done with it, inasmuch as old friends no longer suffer so much from their PTSD – waking at 3AM with nightmares, shrieking in puddles of sweat. But make no mistake: whether drafted or draft-dodger, student-deferred or willfully-enlisted, gung-ho or conscientious objector, man or woman – the war had an indelible effect on all of us who had come of age in the mid-1960s – and perhaps many, many more, even if they had yet to be born.

WILLIAM CALLEY, 1943 – 2024 [LA TIMES, 8-1-2024]

Soldier convicted in My Lai massacre in Vietnam

‘I AM VERY SORRY’. Lt. William Calley said he was just following orders to kill everyone but years later expressed remorse. (Joe Holloway, Jr. Associated Press)


By Steve Chawkins

The night before 2nd Lt. William Calley shipped out of Hawaii to Vietnam, he was obliged to read his unit a list of rules regarding their behavior in a new land.

The men were arrayed in a horseshoe around the 5-foot-3, boyish-looking officer as he recited the do’s and don’ts from the Pentagon publication “Vietnam, Our Host.” In his 1971 memoir, he remembered items such as “Do not insult the women … do not assault the women. And — I’m too foggy about it. Items like ‘Be polite.’ ”

“I had only three minutes for Vietnam, Our Host,” he wrote. “I did a very, very poor job.”

Three-and-a-half months later, 24-year-old “Rusty” Calley was at the center of the My Lai massacre, one of the darkest chapters in U.S. military history. In a hamlet that reputedly had been a Viet Cong stronghold, Calley and the men he commanded shot, stabbed, raped, and hurled hand grenades at hundreds of residents later deemed to be unarmed civilians — mostly women, children and elderly men.

Calley, who was convicted of murder in a 1971 court-martial that was widely seen as a trial of the Vietnam War itself, died on April 28, according to his Florida death record, which said he had been living in an apartment in Gainesville. He was 80.

After My Lai, Calley was sentenced to life at hard labor. However, owing to the intervention of President Nixon, he served only a few months in prison before being released to house arrest. During three years of appeals, he lived in a bachelor-quarters apartment at Ft. Benning, Ga.

Military authorities and then-Secretary of the Army Howard Callaway reduced his sentence to 20 years, and then 10. In 1974, he was paroled.

By then, Calley had gained millions of supporters. The White House was flooded with more than 300,000 letters and telegrams denouncing his life sentence. A Gallup poll indicated that 79% of Americans believed he had been made a scapegoat.

After his conviction, a popular song based on “The Battle Hymn of The Republic” — “The Battle Hymn of Lt. Calley” — sold more than a million records : “My name is William Calley / I’m a soldier of this land / I’ve tried to do my duty and to gain the upper hand / But they’ve made me out a villain / They have stamped me with a brand / As we go marching on …”

Even some leaders of the antiwar movement thought Calley had been treated unfairly. “It’s too bad that one man is being made to pay for the brutality of the whole war,” said Dr. Benjamin Spock , the late activist and pediatrician whose books were child-raising bibles for frazzled American parents.

In his memoir, Calley portrayed himself as an easy target for officials trying to sanitize the unpopular war. Once the story of My Lai emerged, “the American government couldn’t say, ‘Oh, that’s how it is in Vietnam, everyone,’ ” He wrote. “It had to protect two million veterans and 200 million Americans. It had to tell everyone, ‘A mad killer did it.’ ”

On March 16, 1968, Calley led one of the three platoons of Charlie Company into the village known by U.S. military planners as My Lai 4. Four hours after their arrival, most of the villagers were dead. At least nine girls and women had been raped and mutilated. “Zippo squads, using their cigarette lighters to ignite thatched rooves, burned down 246 homes. Bodies were dumped down wells. Even the livestock was shot.

At the My Lai museum outside Da Nang in Vietnam — formally known as the Son My War Remnant Site — a marble plaque lists 504 victims by name. Of the 273 women killed, 17 were pregnant. One hundred and sixty victims were 4 to 12 years old and 50 were 3 years old or younger.

Roughly 100 U.S. soldiers from Charlie Company swept into My Lai on March 16, 1968. They met no enemy fire and saw no Vietnamese males of fighting age. They suffered only one casualty — a GI who shot himself in the foot. All of three enemy weapons were recovered.

Calley ordered his soldiers to aim their M-16 assault rifles into a ditch where dozens of villagers were huddled, pleading for their lives. The only survivors were those shielded from bullets by the layers of bleeding bodies above. Calley fired into the pit, as well as into a group of captured villagers squatting on a trail. He was initially charged with murdering 109 civilians.

When he saw a white-robed Buddhist monk praying over a prostrate elderly woman, he jammed his rifle butt into the monk’s face. After the monk crumpled, insisting he wasn’t Viet Cong, Calley shot him anyway. A little later, he saw a small boy crawl out of the pit. Calley grabbed his arm, tossed him back in, and shot him too. The boy was 2.

In his memoir, Calley said the public’s outrage about slain babies was misplaced.

“On babies everyone’s really hung up,” he wrote. “‘But babies! The little, innocent babies!’ Of course, we’ve been in Vietnam for 10 years now. If we’re in Vietnam another 10, if your son is killed by those babies, you’ll cry at me, ‘Why didn’t you kill those babies that day?’ ”

Seven of Calley’s men refused to follow his orders, but most complied. Ultimately, charges were filed against 25 men, including officers who engineered the subsequent cover-up. The cases against most were dropped. Of the six men tried, only Calley was convicted.

At a 50-year anniversary forum on My Lai, former military judge Gary Solis called it “an epic failure of military justice.”

“I believe the convening authorities just wanted the whole damn My Lai case to go away,” said Solis, a former court-martial prosecutor who taught military law at West Point. “They didn’t want the American public to know the full extent of criminality exhibited by U.S. personnel in My Lai and undermining America’s ongoing war effort.”

Born June 8, 1943, William Laws Calley Jr. was the son of Ruth and William Calley. He grew up with three sisters in Miami, where his father had a construction business.

An indifferent student, Calley was sent to a military school before graduating from a public high school in 1962. He attended Palm Beach Junior College for a year, held a series of odd jobs, and in 1967 enlisted in the Army as the Vietnam War was in full swing.

For decades after his release, Calley managed a Columbus, Ga., jewelry store owned by his wife’s family. He had married Peggy Vick in 1976 at a wedding with 200 guests, including a U.S. district judge who had overturned his conviction but was later overruled. The Calleys’ son, William Laws Calley III, went on to become an electrical engineer.

The Calleys divorced after 30 years and he later moved to Florida.

He broke his silence with a public apology in 2009.

At a friend’s invitation, he spoke at a Kiwanis Club of Greater Columbus lunch: “There is not a day that goes by when I do not feel remorse for

what happened that day in My Lai,” he said, his voice breaking. “I feel remorse for the Vietnamese who were killed, for their families, and for the American soldiers involved and their families. I am very sorry.”

Asked whether following an unlawful order is itself unlawful, Calley said he believed it was, according to an account in the Columbus Ledger-Enquirer.

“If you are asking why I did not stand up to them when I was given the orders, I will have to say that I was a second lieutenant getting orders from my commander and I followed them — foolishly, I guess,” he said.

At his court-martial, Calley’s attorney echoed the defense of top Nazis at their trials in Nuremberg following World War II: He was only following orders.

The day before the attack, Capt. Ernest Medina had gathered the troops of Charlie Company, which he commanded. Most of the men were still relative newcomers to Vietnam, but 20 soldiers — about 10% of the company — had been wounded or killed by buried landmines. Just days before the attack, a popular sergeant had been blown apart by a booby trap that took another soldier’s arms and legs and blinded a third.

Weeks earlier, Calley and others had been kept awake by the sound of screams. At dawn, they discovered the body of a U.S. soldier hoisted on a pole. He had been skinned alive.

Medina told his troops that the next morning they’d be storming My Lai, where intelligence officials had located several hundred members of the crack Viet Cong 48th Local Force Battalion. Because the attack would be on market day, he said, the village would be empty, except for the VC fighters holed up there.

“Our job is to go in rapidly, and to neutralize everything,” Medina told his troops. “To kill everything.”

Asked whether he meant women and children too, Medina, a tough career officer known to his men as “Mad Dog,” was blunt, Calley recounted.

“I mean everything,” he said.

Calley’s account was both supported and disputed by other witnesses. Medina denied it and was acquitted after jurors deliberated for 58 minutes.

Still, Calley said he believed he and his men were under orders to kill anyone they saw as a threat — and women and children had been known to plant landmines, set booby traps and hide Viet Cong fighters. Calley also said he was under pressure from his commander, who told him in angry radio transmissions to “waste” the villagers if they got in the way. The action was to be the first to rout the Viet Cong in My Lai and nearby villages.

“After Medina blasted him for threatening the mission, Calley made the most momentous decision of his life,” wrote historian Howard Jones in “My Lai: Vietnam, 1968, and the Descent into Darkness,” his 2017 account of the massacre. “Since it was impossible to distinguish between friend and foe, the only conclusion was to presume that all Vietnamese were Viet Cong and kill them all.”

Chawkins is a former Times staff writer.
 
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kage69

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Yeah saw that yesterday. Any time My Lai/Son My comes up it gets me pretty angry. I'm glad he's gone, and I never believed any of his anemic, end of life contrition either.

Reading about Hugh Thompson Jr and his crew, how they eventually came out on top and were seen as Examples To Follow, always helps me feel better.
 

skyking

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Nov 21, 2001
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Personally, I’m done with it, inasmuch as old friends no longer suffer so much from their PTSD – waking at 3AM with nightmares, shrieking in puddles of sweat. But make no mistake: whether drafted or draft-dodger, student-deferred or willfully-enlisted, gung-ho or conscientious objector, man or woman – the war had an indelible effect on all of us who had come of age in the mid-1960s – and perhaps many, many more, even if they had yet to be born.
I appreciate your forward and your candor more than the news that it accompanies, Duck.
I was a little young, it was my older brothers and sisters in the thick of the fray at home.
But in time I came to know those men who came home suffering from PTSD and agent orange and injuries of the flesh and the mind.
So many of them only found peace in death.
My old neighbor Pete had 3 Hueys shot out from under him, as an infantryman. He does not talk about it much, not those injuries of the mind, but his body is damaged by all of the above.
My flight instructor Bill signed up as a concientious objector and went over as a medic. He also does not reveal much about the combat.
One of his best memories was an impromptu clinic that they put together to help get soldiers off the heroin before they mustered home.
"We did good things there", he would say.
My dear sister had an original one of these posters; she was involved with the printing and distribution of them.
default.jpg


It did indeed touch all our lives.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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I'm very uplifted by the response replies so far.

None of those vets I have known will talk much about their experience there.

I submit the web-link to this University of Virginia project: Nobody Gets Off the Bus: The Vietnam Generation Big Book. They are now offering the printed version of this collection for $30, but in a true spirit of making the works familiar to the public and in the interest of the Truth, it is still all available on-line -- free.

I had corresponded many years ago with Kali Tal, who had been instrumental in building the collection. As I understood to some vague degree, contributors may have done their writing as therapy. I had touched base with Tal looking for the whereabouts of my friend from the 1970s -- Marc Adin. Marc had burned his draft card in a demonstration before the UN building as a freshman SUNY student. When he received his draft notice, he fled New York. The embarrassment to his father -- a Lebanese immigrant -- inclined the latter to commit suicide. A deal ensued: Marc would be mustered into the US Army, and charges would then go away. Returning from Vietnam, he had a bronze star and two purple hearts. I worked with Marc in a government office between 1974 and 1976.

I had discovered his story linked here -- "Just Down The Hill" -- Parts I and II. Dealing with his troubled dreams and return to civilian life is focus for another piece -- "Jefferson Davis -- A Reprise".

I suggest that you avoid reading Just Down The Hill on a full stomach or after dinner.

For those who didn't know VN veterans -- who, as I already said, don't want to talk much about the war -- we only have film. For instance, there is a PBS Ken Burns series and entire season -- available to view on demand if you made an annual contribution and have PBS Passport for it. Other documentary films are available. There is also historical drama, some of it fiction. Francis Ford Coppola never served in the military nor spent a tour in Nam, but his film "Apocalypse Now" carries a strong message. Oliver Stone, however, did his tour in Vietnam after enlisting in the Army and interrupting his sojourn at Yale University -- which he continued later. His experience informed his cinematic work in Platoon and Born on the Fourth of July.

Other dramatic film may or may not have been directly informed by personal Vietnam experience, for instance -- Stanley Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket." Kubrick didn't do well in college or missed attending altogether, and he had no firsthand encounter with military service. Keep in mind that in film-making, consultants are often hired to assist in crafting plot and script.

But if they made a film based on Marc's story, it would be preceded with more than the usual warnings and considerably beyond "Not suitable for some viewers".

I personally wish I had attended the mass demonstration at the 1968 Chicago Democratic Convention, but I kept my head in the books and didn't have much for travel money. I was very self-absorbed in those days. For the rest of it, I kept my student deferment, but the panic of that time among the draft-eligible probably inclined me to more personal mistakes as I struggled to stay in school and get through school.

As for Lt. Calley, it was all very shocking. But under the circumstances -- even if we as young adults didn't know the particulars at the time -- what would you expect?
 
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Moonbeam

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What if they gave a war and no one came?

@BonzaiDuck: Do you think you might suffer from survivor’s guilt and the awareness that from your countries point of view you are worthy as a youth who has not yet lived a life as an adult, only if you are willing to become cannon fodder?

How much PTSD do you think might be the result of having discovered as a naive idealistic youth that in combat you got to meet the horrifying monster within you.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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What if they gave a war and no one came?

@BonzaiDuck: Do you think you might suffer from survivor’s guilt and the awareness that from your countries point of view you are worthy as a youth who has not yet lived a life as an adult, only if you are willing to become cannon fodder?

How much PTSD do you think might be the result of having discovered as a naive idealistic youth that in combat you got to meet the horrifying monster within you.
I think we were all taught that we "owed" military service. When the military draft existed and suspecting that Vietnam had a shallow justification, I had friends who did anything they could to get classified 4F, such as dropping several purple Osley LSD tabs and "coming on" before they appeared for their draft physical. One guy did it that way, then had a change of heart after we pulled troops out of Vietnam and managed to successfully sign up and do the regular 2-year tour with the army.

Watching the growth of the Trumper movement and the right wing, I've begun to wonder of a universal draft might socialize these folks and draw them back toward a political center. Are military veterans more responsible as citizens? I'm not sure.

I just know that my grandparents and the parents who were called "The Greatest Generation" wouldn't have anything to do with a Trump GOP. They'd come out of the Depression, embracing Social Security, the GI Bill, a wider opportunity for home ownership. They had a thing called "gratitude".

Public opinion about government took a massive downturn which continued, following the Vietnam War and the JFK murder.

The drawback to universal military service arose with the abuse of it, starting with the CIA's war in Vietnam. It has been called that for good reason.

By contrast, take a look at one of the major January 6 criminals -- Stewart Rhodes. He went into the military, and in less than a year's time he had managed to shoot himself in the face (losing one eye), getting discharged before going to law school and then radicalizing himself. How does someone shoot himself in the face? It's just a very weird story. He was certainly no "Greatest Generation" clone.

Another odd example was Timothy McVeigh. All the military did for him was to provide certain skills which he applied to blowing up the Murrah Building with all those civil servants and kids in it. But these are anecdotal examples, and there were other reasons behind McVeigh's radicalization.

It just seems to me that America was "Great" when the Greatest Generation came home from the war. They had a sense of obligation. They had gratitude. There was more cohesion. But we can speculate about the other flaws in our country, like Jim Crow, segregation and so forth. It's more complicated; it requires greater thought and effort to get to the bottom of it.

I just know that my friend Marc did more than his share. He had his two legs and arms; he could hold a job. But he suffered. And you can ask "What for?"

So when I get that Right-wing argument that Vietnam has to have been the right thing to do or otherwise we dishonor our troops, I come back with the idea that they deserved more than their share of honor, since many of them had no choice. And in the middle of all that, you had the dark stain of things like My Lai.

It was as if decision-makers had squandered the patriotic capital piled up in the wake of World War II.

I'll say one thing, though. I put my old 98-year-old Moms in the ground last October. I have gratitude. I finally saw how I should be grateful for my parents. My father, because he had mechanical aptitude, served in the US Army Air Corps as an airplane mechanic. He never went overseas, but he served four years during the war, here in the states. Only in these last two years did I feel so grateful for that, and I felt grateful for a country with a Veterans Administration who could provide spousal "aid-and-attendance" benefits to an old woman 65 years -- SIXTY-FIVE YEARS! -- after her veteran husband had died.

So the Veterans Administration is an institutional remnant of a Great Country, while Trump and his minions have nothing to do with it. Nothing. Their ideas about the "Deep State" and the "Administrative State" -- are all drivel -- the product of a damaged national character, and people who've grown spoiled and ungrateful for what they've been given.
 
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Moonbeam

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@BonzaiDuck

I love you and am going to break a rule that I have maintained since beginning to post here, never to reveal personal information about myself except for some inevitable minimum. My reason for posting here is to share what I believe as a mirror, truth without personal detail because, owing to the nature of truth, nobody wants to know what it is such that if people know this or that about you they will use that data to deflect truth using what they know about you. If you are old your truth will be the truth of the senile, if young, from a lack of experience, if male, the product of testosterone , if female too much all the associations that are stereotyped to women.

People are prisoners of identity, attached to unexamined beliefs that they are this and that, the should and should nots of the cultural bigotry in which we had our birth and being and into which like fish in water we live our lives unaware.

In this way we judge the world. Does this asshole next to me hold to the sacred cows that we do? Does he or she conform. God help those who are different and the more the sacred cows and the more violently they were enforced and rooted deeply within us as children, the more rigid and i and deed the indoctrination, the deeper the invisibility the prison we live in.

Well. I am different and I broke out of a very deep prison and the Viet Nam War had a lot to do with it as well as a profound effect on the course of my life as well as WWII.

Perhaps you have read the Navy had warnings that something might be up at Pearl Harbor before Dec 7. My parents lived in Honolulu at that time. My Dad was a radioman on a destroyer in dry dock next to a massive crane. My parents were at home with the Japanese struck but before that they had taken a drive around the harbor somewhere and had seen and reported a person taking photographs of the harbor. I do not know how many other suspicious activities were reported to people at that time but I know the warning my parents gave was ignored.

My Dad was called back to his ship and while standing on deck a man next to him will killed by friendly fire from the California, I think, across the harbor. My Dad lost his father at three years of age and his mother at ten and was a very sensitive and unassertive repressed and gentle man, intelligent, gifted and sending and receiving the International Continental code that was used instead of Morse Code and very afraid of death. It was always clear to me as a child the price my family paid out of military obligation. My father left the Navy during the depression, having signed up at 17 to escape the burden of feeling unwanted and living in poverty and re-enlisted owing to massive joblessness in the private sector. His skills got him to the rank of commander but it was only during the Viet Nam era and a new Republican wife that he became gung-ho USA pro war. I had always seen the price he paid for constant duty at sea and out of my life as a father and husband. The separation killed my parents marriage.

I grew up with a father I knew by letters who was always gone to war or on patrol knowing I he might be killed at any minute. I understood early what war could mean, what it does to families what horrors and violence it brings. I did not fit in with my new family or their Republican attitudes. My parents wanted me to get an education so I could make something of myself. But as a child with some kind of cognitive difficulties in reading spelling and math and expressing my inner thoughts, I was considered to be quite stupid and thought so myself.

But after two and a half years in Hawaiian schools as a mental cripple from ten to 12 and a half I came back to California schools to discover myself comparatively advanced. Wonder of wonders. Suddenly I had a chance to be everything my new family dreamed of, an A student. Weeeeee so I spent my four years in high school buried in books. And my high school was educationally advanced and profoundly liberal in approach. I was made to read and write essays on what I was reading meant. I would write 80 pages of scratch out to get a five page essay and my Mother would type it out for me and correct my spelling as she was a Navy trained secretary and 90 words a minute on a mechanical. I slowly began to be able to think in language and do reasonably well at math. But my major loves were for biology chemistry and physics. My SATs and grades got me into UC Berkeley as a freshman, but all that reading and honing of critical analytical skills and a merciless drive for honesty, not to mention the Viet Nam war became a profound problem. The stuff I read for English classes at Berkeley were more of the same probing the meaning of life and philosophical thinking.

Soon the feelings I held deep within me, the experiences of my childhood, the feeling that I had always been manipulated by external events, my belief in God and goodness emerged or fell to my merciless introspection. I lost all hope and all interest in life and there was always the draft waiting for me to quit school.

I was saved by Zen and met my great teacher who had been an Army psychologist. He wrote to the draft that I was better off with him than in the army. I quit school and took a low paid service job, I like to think out of guilt, for 35 years. I had all the skills to be a biochemist, my major, in those years. My childhood experiences, both with the military and with what I had come to regard as the imbecility and hypocrisy of most people shouted out loud that I was not going to die in for Richard Nixon.

I had to tell the nation and my parents to go fuck themselves which I did. I destroyed all that I had been told was sacred, patriotism, nationalism, herd behavior of every kind, at the cost of being seen by the normals as a coward.

I used to have a best friend who posted here, Lunarray not sure of the spelling, I can't see words,who went to Viet Nam and suffered profound neural damage from Agent Orange as a young man and who dies of the effects some 7 or so years ago. What a genius he was and what a great man. I hope you can know what it feels like inwardly to be one whose life caused him to denounce military service as a propagandized form of madness when someone like him willingly volunteered costing him an early death. People like him were spit on by the anti-war fanatics incapable of realizing how deeply trapped so many are by absurd beliefs. I hated both the war mongers and those who spit on those who served.

This is what I meant by survivor guilt. For me the war isn't about historical facts but how it felt to be all alone in that generation, not belonging anywhere, being an anathema to both sides. My Truth has come at quite a price, of course, in my opinion.

I always think of you and the pain you have suffered owing to that war and I have such suspicions that you do because in my opinion, you seem magnetized and fixated by the experience as if it were PTSD. That war killed and wounded so many people and for nothing.

Do you remember the Viet Kong invading Texas through Mexico is not stopped at home? Aside fro reading about Anne Frank, All Quiet on the Western Front and living with the possible news that my father had been killed at sea, the air raids in school, and endless war reporting, standing in the middle of thousands of dead at the National Cemetery in Hawaii and others here in Colma Ca., aside from all lunacy surrounding tragedy by war, there are the endless experiences of daily life, seeing the Day the Earth Stood still at age 7 or 8, watching kids fight after church, witnessing endless forms of human brutality and all speaking to one single thing, that humanity is deeply sick, and why, because of programming that destroys self respect and substitutes for it a deep need to get affirmation from outside. To hate ourselves equates to being monsters. As above so below, as within so without. We are the world and we are walking Zombie nightmares. Push a on the box and a clown jumps out.

Probably lots of unedited mistakes in here.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
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Well, let me put it another way, or expand the context to make it simpler.

If I had been told as a child that I had certain obligations to my country, and if I only followed my intuition about it, or like many -- I found legitimate ways -- even clumsy ways -- to evade military service, there was a dimension of my own ignorance at play. I didn't know enough about the Vietnam War during my coming-of-age in the sixties to justify what I thought was shirking behavior.

When I left graduate school in 1972, my Moms had given me the paperback of "The Pentagon Papers". I put this book in the box of books that I dumped in the trunk of my car as I headed first for the seasonal park service job I had that summer, eventually ending up in Washington DC with it. But I just put it on the shelf when I occupied my first apartment there. I escaped reading it for possibly a duration of 20 years.

When I finally picked it up -- the work of Daniel Elsberg -- I became very angry. If I had read that book, I wouldn't have carried those misgivings with me all those years. The misgivings caused me to have an underlying panic as I pursued my career. I would have been much happier and more successful without any panic, worry, shame, confusion -- misgivings -- whatever you want to call it.

And so I claim the right to say that the Vietnam War affected everyone, whether they served in the military or not.
 
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skyking

Lifer
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The viet nam era cannon fodder were children of the greatest generation who went to war en masse without much reservation. There is an implied guilt and obligation to that relationship. WW II had a profound impact on setting that stage.
 
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Moonbeam

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Well, let me put it another way, or expand the context to make it simpler.

If I had been told as a child that I had certain obligations to my country, and if I only followed my intuition about it, or like many -- I found legitimate ways -- even clumsy ways -- to evade military service, there was a dimension of my own ignorance at play. I didn't know enough about the Vietnam War during my coming-of-age in the sixties to justify what I thought was shirking behavior.

When I left graduate school in 1972, my Moms had given me the paperback of "The Pentagon Papers". I put this book in the box of books that I dumped in the trunk of my car as I headed first for the seasonal park service job I had that summer, eventually ending up in Washington DC with it. But I just put it on the shelf when I occupied my first apartment there. I escaped reading it for possibly a duration of 20 years.

When I finally picked it up -- the work of Daniel Elsberg -- I became very angry. If I had read that book, I wouldn't have carried those misgivings with me all those years. The misgivings caused me to have an underlying panic as I pursued my career. I would have been much happier and more successful without any panic, worry, shame, confusion -- misgivings -- whatever you want to call it.

And so I claim the right to say that the Vietnam War affected everyone, whether they served in the military or not.
The war lasted many years. During that time I traveled thousands of miles both physically and mentally. I went from black depression to defeating the nothing as I like to call my jail break. I went from dependent to employment and standing on my own two feet. I went from California to two years travel in Europe. I went from being massively ignorant of what I was feeling to becoming far far more self aware The war was all a big part of that. I became an outsider in a way, part of the world but full of broken attachments, a candle in a wasteland. I became a nobody. I discovered that down is up and that humanity is asleep full of beliefs in the sacredness of cabbage.