19-year-old college girl brings FJ Cherokee in for repairs, finds out it's stolen.

[nerp]

This is a perfect example of why you back away from a used car deal when the dealer warns you you "might encounter some VIN issues."

And it goes to show you that not every mechanic is willing to follow through on what's right and fix the car without making more of an issue about mismatched VIN numbers.

My question here is whether the police in New York will go after the used car dealer.

Either way, sucks for the girl because she's out of money, a ride and there's really nothing she can do about it.

http://northkingstown.patch.com/gro...ts-jeep-in-for-repairs-turns-out-to-be-stolen

 

[Jimzz]

She can sue the dealer, esp since they seem to have some knowledge about the "VIN issues". But she better do it fast in case they run or get jailed.

 

[SearchMaster]

She bought the car in 2011 so there's probably a good chance the used car lot has shut down if they are truly skeezy.

 

[slag]

The original owners were also already compensated for their loss. Curious as to what will happen with this jeep now. They can't return it to the original owners unless they pay their insurance company back.

 

[Jimzz]

The original owners were also already compensated for their loss. Curious as to what will happen with this jeep now. They can't return it to the original owners unless they pay their insurance company back.

Insurance company is the owner in most cases. They will usually take it back and sell at auction if newer or a junkyard for scrape.

 

[cabri]

How did she get a valid title in the beginning?

 

[TerryMathews]

Insurance company is the owner in most cases. They will usually take it back and sell at auction if newer or a junkyard for scrape.

Justice would be for the insurance company to grant the title over to the girl and sue the dealership. You are correct though, that is what will happen.

To the other poster: if her state works like Ohio, an application for dealer assignment of title would have probably sailed right through assuming the car dealership was properly registered. They swear on that form that the information is correct - including VIN.

 

[Insomniator]

There is something wrong with the system if the car can even get to a dealer lot when stolen. Obviously somebody down the line is at fault/sleezeball but it should be like... instantly clear. The auction house or the dealer, whoever is 'buying' the stolen car should be able to see STOLEN the second they run the VIN. There should be no way of continuuing the process past that... but apparently this women was able to buy the car and drive it for 3 years before this was figured out? What about inspections? Registration? Plates?

I don't understand why the car business has to be so scummy.

 

[Jimzz]

There is something wrong with the system if the car can even get to a dealer lot when stolen. Obviously somebody down the line is at fault/sleezeball but it should be like... instantly clear. The auction house or the dealer, whoever is 'buying' the stolen car should be able to see STOLEN the second they run the VIN. There should be no way of continuuing the process past that... but apparently this women was able to buy the car and drive it for 3 years before this was figured out? What about inspections? Registration? Plates?

I don't understand why the car business has to be so scummy.

What happened was the standard stolen re-vin deal.

Car 1 is junked/wrecked but title is legal and clean. Car 2 is stolen but in good shape and condition. Take the VIN plate and paperwork from car 1 and put it on car 2. Sell Car 2 as though it is Car 1. As long as Car 1 never sees the road again then you will never know.

Only reason it was caught now is someone used the VIN on the door, not the dash, and caught it. Could be they were looking for the VIN to find out which part it needed, mid year changes are not to uncommon, and then found out why they were having problems getting it fixed correctly.

Being that she was told there was a VIN issue tells me the dealer probably knew but when it comes to stolen goods the last person holding the potato is the one who loses the most. Same with counterfeit money most of the time.

 

[imagoon]

There is something wrong with the system if the car can even get to a dealer lot when stolen. Obviously somebody down the line is at fault/sleezeball but it should be like... instantly clear. The auction house or the dealer, whoever is 'buying' the stolen car should be able to see STOLEN the second they run the VIN. There should be no way of continuuing the process past that... but apparently this women was able to buy the car and drive it for 3 years before this was figured out? What about inspections? Registration? Plates?

I don't understand why the car business has to be so scummy.

In the article the mentioned that the VIN plate was replaced. Since VIN information is not shared from state to state or the vehicle that the original VIN plate may have belonged to may have not been registered as destroyed (ala chop shop style), it would be fairly simple to use that plate if no one ever checked the body and mechanical VINs.

It isn't that odd to periodically see VIN plates missing from junk yard / pick and pull cars. I figured the yards junk them then someone comes in for "an alternator" or whatever then pulls the plates from cars without windshields, then pockets them and walks out.

 

[HeXen]

Steal car
Take it all apart except for cab and frame and leave it to be found.
Wait for it to come to auction then bid on it
Put car back together and have it all nice and legal for far, far cheaper.

Would it work?

 

[PottedMeat]

Justice would be for the insurance company to grant the title over to the girl and sue the dealership. You are correct though, that is what will happen.

given the news exposure maybe she has a shot at this happening

Steal car
Take it all apart except for cab and frame and leave it to be found.
Wait for it to come to auction then bid on it
Put car back together and have it all nice and legal for far, far cheaper.

Would it work?

sounds like you'd have to have a lot of people along the line in on it and they're going to want to get paid

 

[jlee]

Steal car
Take it all apart except for cab and frame and leave it to be found.
Wait for it to come to auction then bid on it
Put car back together and have it all nice and legal for far, far cheaper.

Would it work?

Certainly wouldn't be legal, considering everything you put back on the car would be stolen property.

 

[Squeetard]

Steal car
Take it all apart except for cab and frame and leave it to be found.
Wait for it to come to auction then bid on it
Put car back together and have it all nice and legal for far, far cheaper.

Would it work?

Not worth the time. Plus, parting out a car gets you more money than a whole car.
Plus, here that Vin would be tagged as salvage only.

 

[KeithP]

In fact, several service stations since 2011 told her about the mismatched VINs but "she said they all were under the impression that it was because the engine had been replaced," according to a police report.

Something is fishy here. An engine swap wouldn't have anything to do with the VIN would it? And those service stations would know that. Methinks these people may have known it was stolen.

-KeithP

 

[momeNt]

Her stepfather bought it, not her. I would think that someone older like the stepfather would have enough scruples to think that something was fishy.

 

[Midwayman]

Hopefully she can sue the dealership. You think they'd be liable for selling a stolen car as they should know enough to be negligent in letting a stolen car slip by them.

 

[slag]

I think it would be hard for her to prove they knew it was stolen unless she can produce an internal email or something.

 

[Midwayman]

I think it would be hard for her to prove they knew it was stolen unless she can produce an internal email or something.

I don't think you need to prove that. I think you just need to prove they should have known.

Here's a response to a very similar event from a real lawyer
http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137532

I would imagine making sure VINs match on the door frame and dash are pretty normal dealer checks.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I recommend anyone buying a used vehicle run the vin through one of those vin check services. A buddy of mine was looking to buy a used Ducati (6-7 years old) recently and we found more bikes with odometer fraud than good ones. Out of 5 potential bikes only 2 checked out okay, the rest had mileage history that did not match the mileage on the bike itself and one of them was listed for sale by a Ducati dealership.

 

[Jimzz]

Something is fishy here. An engine swap wouldn't have anything to do with the VIN would it? And those service stations would know that. Methinks these people may have known it was stolen.

-KeithP

The VIN is stamped into the block in many cars.

Usually car makers will hide a VIN number on the frame and other places besides the ones you see. So if someone says anything about the VIN check the obvious ones and then if its setting off red flags have the others checked as well.

 

[MiataNC]

Most new cars have the VIN all over the place. Usually on every panel (doors, hood, fenders, trunk, rear quater, etc.) A quick way to check if a car has been wrecked previously is to look for missing VIN stickers on fenders, doors, etc.

Anyone who buys a car with an obviously mis-matched VIN number in different places on the car is a fool.

 

[MrPickins]

And it goes to show you that not every mechanic is willing to follow through on what's right and fix the car without making more of an issue about mismatched VIN numbers.

Am I reading correctly that you think the dealer did the wrong thing when they noticed the VIN mismatch?

What would you have had them do?

 

[thomsbrain]

The worst thing about this is the mechanic made her pay the service fees before the car was impounded. Talk about getting screwed coming and going.

 

[Topweasel]

Am I reading correctly that you think the dealer did the wrong thing when they noticed the VIN mismatch?

What would you have had them do?

Well it looks like a couple of other places danced around the issue. This one did the service, charged her, then reported it.

It's really an Ethics issue.

1. Do you tell her that with her vin situation that you can't work on it and send her packing?
2. Do you realize that she is unaware that it maybe a hot car and do the work?
3. Do you call it in knowing that again she thought she was driving a legal car, but knowing what the rules are?
4. Do you do the service, collect payment, and then have it picked up?

1 and 3 are the to me the best solutions. You take no chances with the Liability of the shop. With 1 you even give her the option to figure a way to resolve the issue before being carless. 2 I wouldn't have an issue with because it doesn't treat the world as black and white and understand that their is some greyness that some people just aren't aware that they fall in. I wouldn't expect a dealer or repair place to do it, but I am behind the places that had in this case.

4. Just comes out as the worst option. It's the kind of thing you do when you think that the person stole the car. Charge them and then having the car taken away is just overall kind of slimey. It's a great way to alienate customers.